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  #1  
Old Jan 25, '05, 9:40 pm
Corpus Cristi Corpus Cristi is offline
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Default Atheist Popes

Does anyone know of any atheist popes? This person I'm in an argument with keeps on bringing up some "atheist popes" and I don't know of any. I'm going to just say that he's wrong and there aren't any, but could someone give me anything from which one could even get such an idea?
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  #2  
Old Jan 25, '05, 9:43 pm
Lisa4Catholics Lisa4Catholics is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corpus Cristi
Does anyone know of any atheist popes? This person I'm in an argument with keeps on bringing up some "atheist popes" and I don't know of any. I'm going to just say that he's wrong and there aren't any, but could someone give me anything from which one could even get such an idea?
That is not an argument I have ever heard Is that what the are ruducing their arguments to?What I would do if I would do is call them on it.If they want to make the accusation they need to back it up with evidence.God Bless
  #3  
Old Jan 25, '05, 10:04 pm
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Church Militant Church Militant is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

Make him prove his statements by showing you his sources. I had a buddy of mine make some idiotic statements and allegations in a phone call and when I pinned him down he had to admit that it was all just hearsay, so I just said, "Ever hear the term "Urban Legend"? He shut up and we barely talk now. Tell him that you want names and dates and the whole bit before you'll believe it and if he can't deliver tell him that you suspect that's because they don't exist. This is a common anti-Catholic stunt that really jacks my jaws because it's slanderously dishonest. To my knowlege, no such pope ever existed. Most times such people are a waste of time to even talk to...
Pax vobiscum,
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  #4  
Old Jan 25, '05, 10:14 pm
RobedWithLight RobedWithLight is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

As they say, let the accuser bring out his facts.

There is simply no use arguing a point based on an unsubstantiated accusation.

Gerry
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  #5  
Old Jan 25, '05, 10:34 pm
JLove JLove is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

I think it would be amazing if there were atheistic popes, but what I would find even MORE amazing is the fact that no pope has ever taught anything contrary to the other popes. Deo gratias.
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Old Jan 25, '05, 10:40 pm
RobedWithLight RobedWithLight is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

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Originally Posted by JLove
I think it would be amazing if there were atheistic popes, but what I would find even MORE amazing is the fact that no pope has ever taught anything contrary to the other popes. Deo gratias.
If there were "atheistic" Popes, they would only be "atheistic" in a certain sense only, that is, they would be "atheistic" by living an immoral, dissolute life in stark contrast to the principles and teachings they claim to serve, and there were a few Popes in the medieval period especially who were known to have been a disgrace to the Chair of Peter.

Gerry
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  #7  
Old Jan 25, '05, 11:54 pm
Maccabees Maccabees is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

Being a sinner doesn't make one an atheist.

Actually some of our midevil popes where actually very orthodox in the faith. They may have lived imperfect lives but they did not teach anything contrary to the faith.
  #8  
Old Jan 26, '05, 4:41 am
RobedWithLight RobedWithLight is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

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Originally Posted by Maccabees
Being a sinner doesn't make one an atheist.
I was not using the term "atheist" in such a narrow, literal sense, but only in a figurative sense, since serious sin widens the chasm between the person and God, just as patent unbelief separates one from Him as well. This is the reason why I modified my use of the term "atheist" in that post with the phrase "in a sense".

Gerry
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  #9  
Old Jan 26, '05, 7:56 am
JLove JLove is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobedWithLight
If there were "atheistic" Popes, they would only be "atheistic" in a certain sense only, that is, they would be "atheistic" by living an immoral, dissolute life in stark contrast to the principles and teachings they claim to serve, and there were a few Popes in the medieval period especially who were known to have been a disgrace to the Chair of Peter.

Gerry
I'm well aware of that, but I think the term atheist is being used here in it's primary meaning.
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  #10  
Old Jan 26, '05, 8:31 am
Tantum ergo Tantum ergo is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

Is it possible that the OP's friend mixed up "atheist" pope with "antipope?"
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  #11  
Old Jan 26, '05, 9:10 am
Exporter Exporter is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

I know of 2, maybe 3 medieval Popes who lead sinfull lives, buy not one atheist among them.

Stop and think, IF an atheist did pursue that office and became Pope he would have to be the most stupid man alive.
  #12  
Old Jan 26, '05, 9:26 am
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantum ergo
Is it possible that the OP's friend mixed up "atheist" pope with "antipope?"
That is what I was thinking...
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  #13  
Old Jan 26, '05, 9:42 am
stumbler stumbler is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

Google is our friend.

"Atheist Popes"
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...heist+Popes%22

Apparently it works something like this:

Catholicism = false gospel = false god = not God = no God = atheism
  #14  
Old Jan 26, '05, 10:00 am
stumbler stumbler is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

Here's a gruesome excerpt from "Holiness!" by Vittorio Russo, Minerva Press, Chippenham, Wiltshire, 1996

"Infallibility to popes means the sins, vices and crimes you have continually soiled the earth with. Infallible is used to describe atheist popes like yourself, simoniacs, sadists, libertines, priests married with children, murderers, poisoners, sodomites, heretics, followers of Satan, fornicators and mass murderers. And what about all those popes who were poisoned, stabbed, who drowned, died of VD or were strangled in their beds with their lovers," He went on heatedly, counting them off on the fingers of both hands, which did not suffice. "And those whose blood, or the blood that they shed and poured into the Tiber, which for centuries was an open cess-pit, as bad as the Ganges!"

"Well, some popes were not really up to it, I suppose..."

"Some popes? Just some of them?"

"No doubt You are going to accuse me of the awful things Boniface VIII and Alexander VI did... Crimes of arrogance and simony... But You have to take the times in which these men lived into consideration..."

"Boniface VIII had a lot of faults," He replied after a brief pause, "but the worst of all was to have lived. As for arrogance, he not only gave form to it but face as well. It shone through his words, which are the banner of the church: We declare, announce and decree that it is necessary that every living creature be subject to the pontiff of Rome if he is to be saved. That's what he said. He meant that they could be saved from him, and only by blind obedience. He could not have been referring to any kind of salvation, because he knew nothing of it. He devoted his entire existence to this theme.
  #15  
Old Jan 26, '05, 4:26 pm
Maccabees Maccabees is offline
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Default Re: Atheist Popes

Now that's an objective sources. What next Jack Chick?
Peter De La Rosa? James Carrol? Lorraine Bettner?

The sins of the popes are exagerrated to no end in these books.
LEt's see Pope Alexander was guilty of the sensual sins he is accused of but is all but ignored for the orthodox refroms he made within the church. There is noting he taught that was not Orthodox there is no controversy over his teachings. He alos worked hard to get the best artist like Michelangelo to work for the church.
He cared about the church and its orthodoxy. He was a big time sinner who could not resist sensuality but he was not an athiest nor indifferent to the church's orthodoxy and health.
I wonder how many american presidents will be accused of being fallen after 2000 years of history. Heck we have had Clinton and JFK and FDR fall in their sensuality but they were largely effective as presidents in other ways. I think many of our midevil popes have been miscast and histroy redux as failures in orthodoxy and in caring for the church when their only sins might have been personal sins of sensuality.
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