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  #1  
Old Jun 27, '09, 10:15 pm
cknick cknick is offline
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Default My pastor lies- how to address it?

My pastor lies- obviously and blatantly.....he admits it and has even told parishioners of when he has lied. He doesn't seemed to experience shame or remorse either. How might a parishioner address this to help him curb that behavior?
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  #2  
Old Jun 27, '09, 11:30 pm
Mike Dye Mike Dye is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

I assume you are talking a bout a Catholic Pastor because you mentioned parishioners.I suppose it depends on the lie. There may be lies that Jesus would like " No I don't want the last piece of pie, you take it". Or there are lies that are far more serious. More information is needed. If he has a character flaw I believe the bishop should be notified.
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  #3  
Old Jun 28, '09, 1:23 am
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Eucharisted Eucharisted is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dye View Post
I assume you are talking a bout a Catholic Pastor because you mentioned parishioners.I suppose it depends on the lie. There may be lies that Jesus would like " No I don't want the last piece of pie, you take it". Or there are lies that are far more serious. More information is needed. If he has a character flaw I believe the bishop should be notified.
Jesus would not lie. Lying is a sin that cannot be committed under any circumstances. But let's leave morality and get back on topic.

If your pastor is lying, tell the Bishop. Write him a letter about it. Be frank, polite, and charitable.
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  #4  
Old Jun 28, '09, 6:16 am
kage_ar kage_ar is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

From the way you express things in other posts, the message is you do not like this man, your Priest. I would suggest you pray for him, pray that God will soften your heart and give you humility and peace.
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  #5  
Old Jun 28, '09, 8:34 am
cknick cknick is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

It would be uncharitable to post specific lies, so I can't. the intention of where these lies might lead someone..."to worry less, to take the last bit of cake, to mislead people to believe something so that it will protect someone from being harmed, or have hurt feelings....." I think these are the reasons. I think pride and selfishness are the reasons he lies sometimes, too. Once he asked me to lie. It may have been to protect me, but I didn't need that, so I failed to follow those directives.

They are still lies nontheless, which when obvious, which makes me question anything he says. Trust is foundational in any relationship.

I would have a difficult time informing the Bishop of something like that. This pastor has good intentions, we just don't see things in the same way. I would rather speak to a Knights of Columbus member (someone I could trust) to maybe help him see issues with truth telling more clearly.
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  #6  
Old Jun 28, '09, 9:58 am
seagal seagal is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cknick View Post
It would be uncharitable to post specific lies, so I can't. the intention of where these lies might lead someone..."to worry less, to take the last bit of cake, to mislead people to believe something so that it will protect someone from being harmed, or have hurt feelings....." I think these are the reasons.
Telling someone not to worry even if they good reason to is just a way of trying to make them feel better. Telling them to take the last piece of cake is simply being polite. Tellling someone a [harmless] untruth so as to avoid gossip or hurt feelings sounds compassionate (although I'll admit misguided if a lie is told where none is required). Are you reading more into this than you should?
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Praise the Lord my soul
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  #7  
Old Jun 28, '09, 1:43 pm
NoWhereMan NoWhereMan is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

It`s a funny thing with people, sometime whan you are telling the truth, they think you are lying anyway, can`t please em all
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  #8  
Old Jun 28, '09, 3:52 pm
kage_ar kage_ar is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cknick View Post

I would have a difficult time informing the Bishop of something like that. This pastor has good intentions, we just don't see things in the same way. I would rather speak to a Knights of Columbus member (someone I could trust) to maybe help him see issues with truth telling more clearly.
One would be wise to avoid falling into detraction or calumny.


2507 Respect for the reputation and honor of persons forbids all detraction and calumny in word or attitude.

2479 Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one's neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.



2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
- of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor; - of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another's faults and failings to persons who did not know them; - of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.


2539 Envy is a capital sin. It refers to the sadness at the sight of another's goods and the immoderate desire to acquire them for oneself, even unjustly. When it wishes grave harm to a neighbor it is a mortal sin:

St. Augustine saw envy as "the diabolical sin." "From envy are born hatred, detraction, calumny, joy caused by the misfortune of a neighbor, and displeasure caused by his prosperity."
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  #9  
Old Jun 28, '09, 4:31 pm
cknick cknick is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kage_ar View Post
One would be wise to avoid falling into detraction or calumny.


2507 Respect for the reputation and honor of persons forbids all detraction and calumny in word or attitude.

2479 Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one's neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.



2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
- of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor; - of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another's faults and failings to persons who did not know them; - of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.


2539 Envy is a capital sin. It refers to the sadness at the sight of another's goods and the immoderate desire to acquire them for oneself, even unjustly. When it wishes grave harm to a neighbor it is a mortal sin:

St. Augustine saw envy as "the diabolical sin." "From envy are born hatred, detraction, calumny, joy caused by the misfortune of a neighbor, and displeasure caused by his prosperity."
I don't think this applies here. I don't become joyful at this pastor's suffering. I've prayed for him when sick or undergoing surgery, when his mother has been ill, etc. I see what your saying about watching for his reputation and not wanting to be part of that process despite my good intentions, too. Perhaps I should just drop it, not try to help the man, and just move on to another parish.
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  #10  
Old Jun 28, '09, 5:01 pm
SuscipeMeDomine SuscipeMeDomine is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

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Originally Posted by cknick View Post
Perhaps I should just drop it, not try to help the man, and just move on to another parish.
Considering that virtually every thread you've started has been about problems with your pastor, moving on to a different parish might be the best thing you can do.

You've described a number of difficulties with him and they never seem to be resolved in a way you like. Having one or two issues with the man might be one thing, but the constant distress can't be good for your spiritual or emotional health or his.

Ultimately he is the pastor and you're not, so if there's a power struggle you're going to lose.

Finding another parish where you can be more at ease would probably be good all the way around.
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  #11  
Old Jun 28, '09, 5:13 pm
cknick cknick is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seagal View Post
Telling someone not to worry even if they good reason to is just a way of trying to make them feel better. Telling them to take the last piece of cake is simply being polite. Tellling someone a [harmless] untruth so as to avoid gossip or hurt feelings sounds compassionate (although I'll admit misguided if a lie is told where none is required). Are you reading more into this than you should?
Sometimes the lies hurt-admitting that a lie was told to someone, telling them he filled out annulment papers when he didn't, or saying he didn't read correspendence when he did (and actually repeated word for word what was said.) Or asking someone to lie to cover his underhandedness. In other words, they can be innocent (like playing Robin Hood and lying to the Bishops office about weekly collections to begin a special fund for the poor somewhere,) or they can take on a more sinister feel involving deception and probable painful consequences for those involved.
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  #12  
Old Jun 28, '09, 5:28 pm
cknick cknick is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuscipeMeDomine View Post
Considering that virtually every thread you've started has been about problems with your pastor, moving on to a different parish might be the best thing you can do.

You've described a number of difficulties with him and they never seem to be resolved in a way you like. Having one or two issues with the man might be one thing, but the constant distress can't be good for your spiritual or emotional health or his.

Ultimately he is the pastor and you're not, so if there's a power struggle you're going to lose.
Finding another parish where you can be more at ease would probably be good all the way around.
Perhaps you are right-many of the more conservative Catholics at that Parish have left. All the others have moved across town to another Parish, with positive results. It feels to me like divorce though, and I don't support divorce until all avenues are exhausted.
All avenues may not be exhausted, but I personally, am getting exhausted
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  #13  
Old Jun 28, '09, 5:46 pm
cknick cknick is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

How to help a pastor who has a problem with lying is the question. Nobody knows who this man is, so I have not hurt anyone.....I'm trying to help.

Last edited by cknick; Jun 28, '09 at 5:48 pm. Reason: punctuation correction
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  #14  
Old Jun 28, '09, 7:42 pm
kage_ar kage_ar is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

Here is a list of those who will help this priest with any of his spiritual battles:

God

His confessor

His spiritual director

His bishop

His fellow priests

His family and close personal friends

You, as a parishioner should keep him in prayer every day.
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  #15  
Old Jun 28, '09, 7:52 pm
cknick cknick is offline
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Default Re: My pastor lies- how to address it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kage_ar View Post
Here is a list of those who will help this priest with any of his spiritual battles:

God

His confessor

His spiritual director

His bishop

His fellow priests

His family and close personal friends

You, as a parishioner should keep him in prayer every day.
I do keep him in prayer every day and I guess if I choose to stay, I need to lean on my faith a little harder and remind myself that for everything there is a season. I have planted seeds and they will grow.
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