Pope Endorses "World Political Authority"

[RonTheNewJew]

Cheerleader,
Where you ask the question, "How is this not the endorsing of a world government," I must agree with you. This globalization by the Catholic Church is really what this whole papal push toward using the current economic situation in an effort to centralize control over the economic systems contained in more than 200 nations of the earth. It is to give control over politics, period, in those countries. This bodes very poorly, as you plainly state, for the survival of human freedom.

We don't likely need to recount the discussions of recent, about the history of the persecution by the early Christian Church of heretics and Jews and others who refused to go along with what became known as the pagan church, influenced as it was by the pagan Greek and Roman majorities that surrounded and governed them (claimed by Catholics as their history, but, from known, extant history, predates the existence of the Catholic Church by several hundred years. During the early centuries of the Judeo-Christian Church, Judeo-Christians worshippled at the same time in the same places with non-Christian Jews---synagogues.) THe pagans considered them as a sect of Judaism.

But, later on, after the Bishop of Rome centralized his control over the western church, he then sought to unify the other factions of the Christian Church as it existed at that time. There was much persecution and bloodshed by the Bishop of Rome against the others such as at Constantinople, with the Patriarchate of Constantinople, because in the early-mid second century after Christ, the eastern church refused to give up the Scriptural keeping of the Messianic passover seder and days of unleavened bread as practiced and taught by Christ, Himself, to the Disciple/Apostle John, with James and others who knew Jesus personally. Then came Easter and Christmas, etc. All changes made by the Bishop of Rome, from the original days and ways that the Disciples were taught by Jesus, Himself.

And, we have all seen the persecution and murder of Christians in India, and elsewhere. Not by Catholics, but by Hindu's and others. Centralization of political power at the nearby hands of a major religious leader of ANY faith or set of doctrines is wrong, corrupt because of it's high potential for secrecy (that the pope's encyclical rightfully criticizes), and resulting abuse.

Greed is in every one of us. There is no "moral authority" with real "teeth" in it that is "moral." The "teeth" part makes it immoral! What I see in Pope Benedict is a man who sees the extension of morality as his calling. But, morality can only exist when each human being has free choice to accept it, or reject it and pays the price on a local level, enforced by civil (not religious, or even connected with religion or religious leaders) authorities who are impartial, based in the United States and other western nations on a Constitution, where religion and doctrinal and moral teaching are concerned. In America, we call it the coexistence of law and personal freedom. It is inherant in the concept of the separation of religion and religious practices from government involvement or intrusion. We proudly call it the "separation of church and state."

The pope's encyclical, though it finds words to diffuse some of these concerns, topically, in fact directly argues against the principles contained in the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. True religion must be of free choice, alone and absolute. To change that principle in any way, which, by the way is in itself, unConstitutional, would destroy the very basis of America's blessings under God, which would destroy this country.

[Liraco]

All I see is children slinging mud at one another and everyone else covering their eyes and ears. This is obviously going nowhere as everyone is still confused and speaking half truths or out of ignorance while feigning knowledge. Those that do understand are going unheard.

If this is only a sneak peak, I am beginning to understand the chaos that must have been caused during the transition of Vatican II.

I'll be praying for everyone so that we can all understand the truth instead of picking fights. I'm sure some HAVE read it all and still don't get it, so may they begin to understand soon.

For a discussion on the encyclical that speaks of "Charity", I see very little displayed.

[RonTheNewJew]

Liraco,
I think I understand how you must feel. You say you see people just fighting among themselves. Let me ask you a few questions:
A. What does the pope mean by the word, "truth?" What, or which or whose "truth?"
Is "truth" to the pope, Catholic, as opposed let's say to Protestant, or Jewish, or
Islamic or Buddhist or Hindu? All of them have many grains of real "truth" in them.

B. If the pope's plan, if adopted in some way by civil governments (and he says he wants "teeth" in the plan so it can be "ensured"), doesn't work (as if such ensured utopias had not been tried, so many times in past history), then which "teeth" would the pope suggest that civil governments use in order to "ensure" that all people, especially the poor in places like Africa and Central and South America, among others, are fed, clothed, housed, given medical care, etc., are taken care of??

You have to understand that, coming from the current leader of a very centrally controlled religious organization that has a history of persecution through influence on state or government authorities, and that when he talks of "world political authority" with "teeth" in it, that non-Catholics, and I would assume some Catholics, themselves, become alarmed.
Problem is, they have documented history to back them up.

[pnewton]

Originally Posted by RonTheNewJew

This globalization by the Catholic Church is really what this whole papal push toward using the current economic situation in an effort to centralize control over the economic systems contained in more than 200 nations of the earth.

I do not know which I see as more far-fetched globalization is from the Catholic Church or that the current economic situation is the being used to centralize control. I take it you too did not spend the few hours it takes to read the encyclical. I don't blame you, but I would like to repeat for the third time here that Pope Benedict says globalization is neither good or bad. It just is. It's reality in the world today and the evil that stems from globalization is why he said there was a need for enforcement to fight the social ills that have come from it.

I do not know what has pushed globaliztion, except possibly technology, but the evils it brings are real. They stem from lust and greed. People are suffering and dying as they fall victims to the greed of others, or in some cases, the lust of others.

Okay, I understand the fear of any international enforcement. But let me ask, does anyone think at the very minimum that rich pedophiles should be allowed to visit third world countries and molest children with impunity?

[Church Militant]

Originally Posted by RonTheNewJew

You have to understand that, coming from the current leader of a very centrally controlled religious organization that has a history of persecution through influence on state or government authorities, and that when he talks of "world political authority" with "teeth" in it, that non-Catholics, and I would assume some Catholics, themselves, become alarmed.
Problem is, they have documented history to back them up.

Oh yeah...and we're the only ones, right?

The Protestant's hands are historically whistle clean even as our own U.S. is.

That rings of a-C propaganda to me.

The Protestants, over the course of the intervening history have proved themselves just as bloody handed as anything that anyone else has done, and in fact only someone willfully ignoring the fact that this pontiff comes to us with very personal experience of one of the worst regimes in history (that certainly was not Catholic!), would even infer such as this.

Look at what the document says people. There are about 66 other paragraphs in it that set out the kind of society that we would hope to create and certainly all of that would mean ZERO without the ability to enforce and protect all the people it represented.

[RonTheNewJew]

Originally Posted by pnewton

I do not know which I see as more far-fetched globalization is from the Catholic Church or that the current economic situation is the being used to centralize control. I take it you too did not spend the few hours it takes to read the encyclical. I don't blame you, but I would like to repeat for the third time here that Pope Benedict says globalization is neither good or bad. It just is. It's reality in the world today and the evil that stems from globalization is why he said there was a need for enforcement to fight the social ills that have come from it.

I do not know what has pushed globaliztion, except possibly technology, but the evils it brings are real. They stem from lust and greed. People are suffering and dying as they fall victims to the greed of others, or in some cases, the lust of others.

Okay, I understand the fear of any international enforcement. But let me ask, does anyone think at the very minimum that rich pedophiles should be allowed to visit third world countries and molest children with impunity?

Hi Pnewton,
No. I don't think that pedophiles should be allowed to purchase sex from anyone, let alone, and for absolutely certain, children. However, the pope's encyclical is far broader than just that issue in scope. He is talking about the establishment of a centrally organized mega-government to manage the economies of many nations that have their own economics and financial systems, and whose people. like our own here in the United States, will not allow a foreign economic congress or parliament to decide who gets what pieces of the taxes collected from their own citizens. That is EMPIRE, pure and simple.

That has never worked, and will never work. It leads to dictatorship and loss of freedoms.

[Michael96]

My impression so far is that people read into it what they want to read into it. I hope the Holy Father will offer some more clarification on what he wants people to read into it.

[Earnest Bunbury]

Originally Posted by Michael96

My impression so far is that people read into it what they want to read into it. I hope the Holy Father will offer some more clarification on what he wants people to read into it.

He would offer the passage from Sacred Scripture: Matthew 13:16: "But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear". It is as applicable today as it was then.

It seems this section is passed over:

The Church does not have technical solutions to offer and does not claim “to interfere in any way in the politics of States.” She does, however, have a mission of truth to accomplish, in every time and circumstance, for a society that is attuned to man, to his dignity, to his vocation. Without truth, it is easy to fall into an empiricist and sceptical view of life, incapable of rising to the level of praxis because of a lack of interest in grasping the values — sometimes even the meanings — with which to judge and direct it. Fidelity to man requires fidelity to the truth, which alone is the guarantee of freedom (cf. Jn 8:32) and of the possibility of integral human development. For this reason the Church searches for truth, proclaims it tirelessly and recognizes it wherever it is manifested. This mission of truth is something that the Church can never renounce. Her social doctrine is a particular dimension of this proclamation: it is a service to the truth which sets us free. Open to the truth, from whichever branch of knowledge it comes, the Church's social doctrine receives it, assembles into a unity the fragments in which it is often found, and mediates it within the constantly changing life-patterns of the society of peoples and nations.

(9)

It is 50 pages long! It offers it's own clarifications if one is inclined to hear. Those who despise the Church will see more of what they despise in it. Those who fear the Church will see what they fear in it. Those who don't trust God will see what they don't trust about God in it. But those who love Charity, Truth, and the Church will see and agree with those transcendent principles that they pray for everyday.

[pnewton]

Originally Posted by RonTheNewJew

Hi Pnewton,
No. I don't think that pedophiles should be allowed to purchase sex from anyone, let alone, and for absolutely certain, children. However, the pope's encyclical is far broader than just that issue in scope. He is talking about the establishment of a centrally organized mega-government to manage the economies of many nations that have their own economics and financial systems, and whose people. like our own here in the United States, will not allow a foreign economic congress or parliament to decide who gets what pieces of the taxes collected from their own citizens. That is EMPIRE, pure and simple.

That has never worked, and will never work. It leads to dictatorship and loss of freedoms.

It is broader in scope. But it is not far broader in scope. he did not mention mention however the scope that you mentioned above. No. He does not want centralized management of financial systems. He wants centralized accountablity for those who use borders to do things which are by and large illegal in most civilized countries anyway. Some of these crimes are economic. Some are social, like the one mentioned above (which was one of the chapters overlooked in the letter, BTW).

I get the distinct impression that few have really read the letter.

[RonTheNewJew]

Originally Posted by Church Militant

Oh yeah...and we're the only ones, right?

The Protestant's hands are historically whistle clean even as our own U.S. is.

That rings of a-C propaganda to me.

The Protestants, over the course of the intervening history have proved themselves just as bloody handed as anything that anyone else has done, and in fact only someone willfully ignoring the fact that this pontiff comes to us with very personal experience of one of the worst regimes in history (that certainly was not Catholic!), would even infer such as this.

Look at what the document says people. There are about 66 other paragraphs in it that set out the kind of society that we would hope to create and certainly all of that would mean ZERO without the ability to enforce and protect all the people it represented.

ChurchM. If you had read some of what I said in an earlier post, you would have noticed that I mentioned the current situation of Hindu persecurtion of Christians in India, as well as Islamic, etc. I also said in an earlier post that Protestants had, although largely in response to, but no excuses, persecuted Catholics and others. My point was simply that religiion, especially the religion that claims to follow Christ, cannot use state power, or any other power to enforce it's dictims on people anywhere.

I would also say that we cannot "create a more moral society when the essence of morality comes to us from God the Son, Yeshua, who refused to force anyone to do His bidding. Enforcement already exists in the nations of the world. Another enforcer, just because it claims that it can "create" what it has never created before (because it is composed of fallible human beings) is ludicrous.

It is not possible for any centrally organized aggregate of human beiings, imperfect as they all, each and every one of them, including you and me, are.

If Christ, while here on earth showing us his humility and decency, did not allow His followers to fight, even to get Him freed from Pontius Pilate, then how is it the Church has decided that it can, and likely will try, to unite it's members behind them flocking to all levels of government to try to get Benedict's encyclical passed, and set in stone with teeth and all.

What would Benedict do if his plan does not work wnen average poeple decide that they still want their economic rights as they currently have them? Cause laws to be passed that would toss them in jail? What? I do not include any notion of economic rights to include the sex trade, whether with children or anyone.

The message of Christ's love and His Law of Love as contained in the Law He gave to Moses as the pre-incarnate Christ, along with His Father and the Holy Spirit, which Exekiel 36, vs. 36 and 37 make clear that the written Torah, without the rabbinical rules and multitudes of regulations, is the Law, Statutes and Judgements that God wants His followers "to
observe and do."
Matthew 23 makes plain that Christ defended the written Torah only a very short time before His death and resurrection. His Apostles did the same things as He had taught them to do.

Only Chrfist, alone and without human aide, can change human lives and human history. The Church is made up of sinful human beings who are too selfish and sinful to claim to create a society that the Church's membership cannot create. We are sinners.

God bless you.

[Cheerleader]

I feel at this time, I need to make clear in this thread that my writings against the Pope's encyclical calling for a world political authority does not mean I am anti-Catholic. And I believe Jesus established the seat of Saint Peter to shepard us until his second coming. I was born a Catholic, and will die a Catholic.
There was a time in my life when I strayed from the Church, but through the grace of my sweet Lord, Jesus Christ, I was brought home through a true spiritual conversion of the heart.
With that said, what I am trying to say is that we are involved in a spiritual battle for the souls of men and the survival of Western civilization. The Prince of Darkness wants to destroy Christianity, and establish a world government. He controls most governments, many corporations, the media, and the wealth of the world. When the Pope calls for a world political authority to control the world economies, it only energizes these occult forces and their political agenda. The same thing happens when he promotes environmentalism. Environmentalism is nice. Who could ever be against environmentalism? Environmentalism is a nice word like "pro-choice". That's a nice buzz word. The occult hierarchy is using environmentalism to promote their goal of a one world government. These are not conspiracy theories. Those individuals who are part of this "brotherhood of darkness", such as David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, Barbara Marx Hubbard have boastfully said so in their own writings.

If you would like to study this topic more thouroughly, may I suggest the writings and lectures of Dr. Stanley Monteith (whom I may have quoted in this comment and from time to time) of www.RadioLiberty.com as one brilliant source. He is not a Catholic, but a devout Christian who has studied this subject for over forty years.

In the very introduction of Caritas in Veritate, the Pope says the principal driving force behind the authentic development of every person and of all humanity is Charity in truth. I say, not if you worship a different god.

[josephdavid]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Cheerleader

I feel at this time, I need to make clear in this thread that my writings against the Pope's encyclical calling for a world political authority does not mean I am anti-Catholic. And I believe Jesus established the seat of Saint Peter to shepard us until his second coming. I was born a Catholic, and will die a Catholic.
There was a time in my life when I strayed from the Church, but through the grace of my sweet Lord, Jesus Christ, I was brought home through a true spiritual conversion of the heart.

Glad you came back.

When the Pope calls for a world political authority to control the world economies, it only energizes these occult forces and their political agenda.

So you are saying our Holy Father is part of a cult?

The same thing happens when he promotes environmentalism. Environmentalism is nice. Who could ever be against environmentalism? Environmentalism is a nice word like "pro-choice". That's a nice buzz word. The occult hierarchy is using environmentalism to promote their goal of a one world government.

So you are ok with corporations and people spewing toxins into the air and in our water and food for the benifit of profit, is ok and well with in the Doctrine of our Lords Church?

In the very introduction of Caritas in Veritate, the Pope says the principal driving force behind the authentic development of every person and of all humanity is Charity in truth. I say, not if you worship a different god.

So you think our Holy Father was not speaking the truth?

[Cheerleader]

What kind of a title is "Charity in Truth" anyway. Three simple words that seem to cause much confusion. Can anyone give me a simple explanation. To me Charity is Love. God is Love. And Truth is Jesus Christ. If only it were that simple.

[Liraco]

Originally Posted by RonTheNewJew

You have to understand that, coming from the current leader of a very centrally controlled religious organization that has a history of persecution through influence on state or government authorities, and that when he talks of "world political authority" with "teeth" in it, that non-Catholics, and I would assume some Catholics, themselves, become alarmed.
Problem is, they have documented history to back them up.

Yes, but past mistakes are not what are being discussed nor are they creeping up again. You're right that non-Catholics panic, because they don't understand.

Jimmy Akin put it best in his blog:
"as the pope points out in the encyclical, the Church does not have specific, technical solutions to propose. Figuring those out are the task of the laity, and it is precisely in this area where most politics is generated."

The Pope doesn't and won't say "here is the solution to all your problems". That's NOT his job. He's not king of the world despite what some would believe that he wants to be or is trying to be.

The solutions he DOES bring to the table is rather simple: the world is lacking GOD. That's the source of all our problems. I can tell you first hand that's certainly why Mexico is screwed up and corrupt as it is. It's every man for himself and God is only real when you really need something (and goes back to "non-existance" when He doesn't grant their whims). Even then, many are turning to occult things like the "Santa Muerte" instead of turning back to God to grant them things they know are wrong (a favorite of drug traffickers and inmates).

While there are a few things in the encyclical that do point out toward a possible solution, remember this:
Because the document is not proposing anything infallibly, it is in principle open to revision in the future.

This heated discussion only proves the following:
a person reading the encyclical will find himself challenged at various points, no matter what his native political instincts are. This is part of the pope's intention. He wants to challenge everybody and shake them out of the uncritical political orbits that people find themselves sliding into.

So yes, let's all start to THINK instead of worrying that the Pope wants to usher in the end times or something equally preposterous. If you want some further reading, Jimmy's initial take on the encyclical is interesting: link

I'll admit to not having read it yet, but even then I know that all these attacks are wrong because from the parts I've read, and if you've read anything from Pope Benedict before, you know those wrong ideas are not something he'd push forward.

One last thing to consider, which explains a big source of confusion:
(If you're gonna read it, read to the end lest you fall into error).

@Cheerleader: there's nothing wrong with being good stewards of the planet God gave us, in fact it's something we HAVE to do. We can't justify destroying our planet, though I'll agree that excesses and scare-mongering tactics about the "end of the world" can push negative agendas. This however is neither, rather it offers REASONABLE suggestions about how we need to take better care of what we have been given.

[elijio]

Originally Posted by Cheerleader

DUH!!! The Pope did call for a one world global authority in his own words, in his own encyclical. Alex Jones didn't say it---the Pope did! What is your problem? You're the one spreading half-truths. Those with ears shall hear.

Your my problem right now. Show me the sentence where he called for a one world global authority which Alex Jones speaks of. Alex Jones says the ''new world order will be run by the global elite and will kill off 80% of the population''.

Show me where the pope endorses that theory in the encyclical, Cheerleader.

Peace.