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  #481  
Old Dec 23, '11, 10:12 pm
bluelake bluelake is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

[quote=Wolves;5451782]The article can be found at http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0605uan.asp

In a debate with an atheist on this article, they brought up that they did not see evidence from the article that "esse" is a sentient being. I'm having trouble proving to him that "esse" is sentient. Any help is appreciated. [/QUOTE

We walk by faith,
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is a
the gift of God, not by works so that no one can boast." Eph.2:8
God has chosen us.

God bless you as you read His word, the Holy Bible.

God bless,
bluelake
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  #482  
Old Dec 23, '11, 10:16 pm
bluelake bluelake is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertBall View Post
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Please find ONE post, just ONE, where i have claimed there "IS NO GOD". I don't claim ever that there is no god, i don't accept you claim god exists because YOU CAN NOT demonstrate it. However rejecting a claim IS NOT the same as claiming the opposite of the said claim.
Isn't God great, He gives us the choice, we can accept Him or deny Him.
The choice is ours.
How much time have you spent reading the Bible?

bluelake
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  #483  
Old Dec 24, '11, 3:22 am
Tontodonati Tontodonati is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Trying to prove and /or disprove the existence of God with philosophical arguments is futile. Reduced to simple terms, God is an entity who does not enjoy being worshiped by simpletons. God gives proof of his existence with miracles and visions. The Catholic Church has had many saintly men and women who had visions and worked miracles in the name of God. Notwithstanding, those who do not believe will not believe even if a dead man comes back to life.
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  #484  
Old Dec 24, '11, 5:22 am
a priori a priori is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Defining terms is important. "Proof" generally requires the infrastructure of Greek logic. It is based on to/from and before/after sequences firmly anchored in time and space. God "exists" outside of spacetime. No "proof" is possible. Within the context of "proof", the theist and the atheist are on equal footing and should have more respect for each other. There are very good reasons to believe in God.

Concluding that ALL of reality exists inside of spacetime is like the goldfish concluding that all reality is inside the fishbowl. The goldfish cannot comprehend the Steinway in the parlor around the corner so, for them, it doesn't exist.

We simply do not have the equipment necessary to logically discern God. But, for my money, He's surely there. That's where faith lives.
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  #485  
Old Dec 24, '11, 12:02 pm
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LayingHands LayingHands is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazcheh View Post
I think this argument of there is a God or there isn't a God will never end.

I am certainly no expert and correct me if I am wrong, but if there are only theories about the non existence of God, does this then lead to a possibility of there being a God?
If there is no irrefutable evidence to confirm there is no existence of God does this lead to atheism being completely untrue as it is the absolute denial of the existence of God?

Again I am no expert in any sense so please correct me if I am wrong.
All this chasing around about the existence of GOD? How can any logical human being deny His existence? The existence of GOD did not begin with the bible and the birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ...there are additional ancient scriptures which not only relay of His existence and grace, but, scriptures on His incarnations and descending to Earth or the sending of His Representatives, including His only begotten Son...to again remind us of the forms to live by to RETURN to HIM...if we cannot believe that we were created by Him, to live by His Laws for redemption back to Him after death, than ALL the foundation churches based on this Knowledge, cannot be redeemed?!...even those in Humanity who have had death experiences, and returned after being hung and shackled in hell, and upon prayer and calling out to GOD and or Jesus Christ, were uplifted and saved by the hand of GOD, in blinding Light, to return here and change their lives...how not to believe GOD by his Grace and Mercy, does not exist and will not save those who call him, even from Hell itself?
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  #486  
Old Jan 9, '12, 12:07 pm
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Faithdancer Faithdancer is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluelake View Post
Isn't God great, He gives us the choice, we can accept Him or deny Him.
The choice is ours.
How much time have you spent reading the Bible?

bluelake
I would also suggest the Summa Theologica.
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  #487  
Old Jan 9, '12, 12:34 pm
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Faithdancer Faithdancer is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
As a little side note: at which point does this pure, essential, necessary, existence unto itself start getting angry at it's own creation, send floods, request sacrifices, demand foreskins be lopped off, and decide the perfect act of benevolence is to create himself human and kill himself to appease himself, for the love of humanity?
You seem to be completely lacking in an understanding of Scripture and Christology, let alone modern exegesis. I will pray for you.
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  #488  
Old Feb 25, '12, 1:40 pm
174a 174a is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Think about this. It is true to say that nature abhors a vacuum, scientist will agree with this.

Scientists also say there was nothing before the Big Bang. This must be false if the first statement is true as there cannot be a vacuum, so something had to be there.

What annoys me about atheists is that they are quick to ask who or what created God, but they never ask who or what created the universe and they are quite happy to say it just 'happened.' One law for them, another law for us, except it doesn't hold true because of the first statement.

So, no vacuum before the Big Bang means that there had to be a presence that is "Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent" which describes God.

.

Last edited by 174a; Feb 25, '12 at 1:51 pm.
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  #489  
Old Feb 25, '12, 1:49 pm
174a 174a is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithdancer View Post
You seem to be completely lacking in an understanding of Scripture and Christology, let alone modern exegesis. I will pray for you.
Or alternatively Voice of Reason may be suggesting that like insurance companies, early man attributed natural disasters to God and like President Bush in Iraq they performed their wicked deeds in the name of God.

.
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  #490  
Old Mar 1, '12, 10:28 am
aquinasfiveways aquinasfiveways is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

So Ghosty, essentially what you are saying is mainly consistent with St. Thomas Aquinas' First & Second Ways, but what I don't understand is why you say such a necessary being cannot also have personality and omnipotence???
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  #491  
Old Mar 1, '12, 10:42 am
aquinasfiveways aquinasfiveways is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by 174a View Post
Or alternatively Voice of Reason may be suggesting that like insurance companies, early man attributed natural disasters to God and like President Bush in Iraq they performed their wicked deeds in the name of God.

.
What I have to ask is why God CANT cause natural disasters? Logically, God must exist both physically and metaphysically in order for the universe itself to exist. Therefore God has the ability to influence physical events. In Exodus, God used natural means (aka a gigantic volcanic eruption on Santorini) to cause a chain reaction of events (the ten plagues) which freed the Israelites from the Egyptians (possibly Hyksos fleeing from Pharaoh Ahmose). I also must comment on the fact that God himself didn't cause President Bush to invade Iraq...he did that himself. However I too personally believe that Iraq was wrong initially, but I also believe that we shouldn't have pulled out yet. You have to finish what you start, and we left Iraq ripe for further instability in the future.
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  #492  
Old Mar 1, '12, 11:33 am
174a 174a is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquinasfiveways View Post
What I have to ask is why God CANT cause natural disasters? Logically, God must exist both physically and metaphysically in order for the universe itself to exist. Therefore God has the ability to influence physical events. In Exodus, God used natural means (aka a gigantic volcanic eruption on Santorini) to cause a chain reaction of events (the ten plagues) which freed the Israelites from the Egyptians (possibly Hyksos fleeing from Pharaoh Ahmose). I also must comment on the fact that God himself didn't cause President Bush to invade Iraq...he did that himself. However I too personally believe that Iraq was wrong initially, but I also believe that we shouldn't have pulled out yet. You have to finish what you start, and we left Iraq ripe for further instability in the future.
Of course God can influence the weather and I believe that is one of the ways in which he works, the parting of the Red Sea for example, but I also think people take the name of God in vain and use Him as a handy scapegoat.

.
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  #493  
Old Mar 1, '12, 1:05 pm
rvturietta rvturietta is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

I have a degree in physics and I am Catholic. I have never found any physics theories to disagree with my Catholic beliefs. When scientists say things like "nature abhors a vacuum" they are not saying "there can never be nothing", what they mean is that if anything can make it's way into a space that is a vacuum, it will... The Big Bang Theory does not imply that no God exists, all it is is a theory to explain the origins of our Universe. In my mind this in no way limits God. It might explain how God started our universe, but that doesn't mean God hasn't started other universes, or did not exist before the Big Bang, we can't tell that from the theory. Besides which, it is only a theory... not a law... Theories are accepted only as long as they continue to predict the answers to experiment... that is the way physics works, you have something you observe, you think about it, come up with an explanation, see if that explanation predicts something else, then you design an experiment to test that something else... if you observe it, then your theory is supported... you continue to do this with everything you can think of until you accept that your theory is useful enough to help you predict lots of things.. then you apply it to find out the answers to all your questions, by again doing experiments... now, if your theory fails you, then you need to modify it until it works again, or throw it out all together... Sorry to be so long winded, but to me people always confuse these issues and somehow think that scientists don't have faith. Actually, the history of science is filled with Catholic Scientists! The only disagreements between science and Catholic Beliefs are those that people create, Catholicism and Science actually make a great team!
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  #494  
Old Mar 1, '12, 5:53 pm
Christianus_Dei Christianus_Dei is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Direct this person to the fact that the "Esse" would have to exist outside of time and space. Outside if time and space, there is no change. No randomness. It would have had to be a willed act that caused it to cause the big bang.
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  #495  
Old Mar 2, '12, 5:20 pm
toosan1967 toosan1967 is offline
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Default Re: "A Proof of the Existence of God" - May/June 2006 Problem

Not to comment on anything anyone else has posted here...but one of the questions I've always had about our faith is, "Just where does one find Heaven (or Hell for that matter)?" As children (and even in the early Church) we seemed to think that Heaven was somewhere 'Up there" (Jesus Ascends into heaven), or "Out there". But we have been looking 'up there' and/or 'out there' for quite a few years now and all we seem to find is our universe: immense; filled with inconceivable wonders, distances, - and violence. But no Heaven (or Hell).
Now some astrophysicists may be in the process of locating Heaven and Hell for us. All theory, of course, but still fascinating. I'm referring to the 'Multiverse' theory which, I think is related to another theory - 'String Theory'. Theories wrapped up in theories! In any case, it's curious to consider the possibility that Heaven and Hell are right here with us: universes in and of themselves; wrapped up in immense spaces so convoluted and twisted in upon themselves that they occupy such tiny spaces in our own universe that we can almost never sense their presence. Almost never, I say. Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition are filled with stories of those of us who, by the Grace of God, seem to have been in contact with Heaven (and Hell) and those who dwell there, even though the theorists all say that that is impossible.
Then again, as Scripture tells us, "all things are possible with God." Just a thought! May God Bless Us All!
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