About Martha and Mary - The active life and contemplative life. Which is better ? See what you think dear friends.

[John Russell Jr]

My dear friends

Here are some thoughts on this much loved passage of scripture all the spiritual masters seem to use to explain the two types i.e. contemplative and active life. Martha and Mary. Martha representing the active life, and her sister Mary representing the contemplative life. I offer my thoughts on this below. I welcome your comments, insights, thoughts etc.

Luke.10

38] Now as they went on their way, he entered a village; and a woman named Martha received him into her house.
[39] And she had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet and listened to his teaching.
[40] But Martha was distracted with much serving; and she went to him and said, "Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Tell her then to help me."
[41] But the Lord answered her, "Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things;
[42] one thing is needful. Mary has chosen the good portion, which shall not be taken away from her."

Comments :

I would say Martha is doing some mental and vocal prayer here, accompanied by the prayers of keeping the presence of God and doing Gods will. But the thing that strikes me with Martha is she is busy about doing worldly things that are necessary and holy but not the higher form of prayer which is contemplation. She is likely doing a little contemplation here and there when she is not busy. But she is in the presence of God and ought to be more concerned with the highest form of prayer at this time. Much the same as when we are in the presence of the blessed sacrament. She is praying and doing Gods will, but not doing it as perfectly as she should at this time. Clearly her words indicate a little lack of love and understanding. I say little because she's a saint. She has great love but not as much as she could and does not understand this and this is why Jesus tells her Mary has chosen the good portion. I'll explain on.

Mary is at the Lords feet listening to Him with her whole attention and loving Him with her whole heart, soul, mind and strength. The thing God really wants from us is our love. The prayer is great as Martha does here, but Mary is practising contemplation which is the highest form of prayer because this prayer is to just gaze at God and love Him. There is a lot more love in pure contemplation like this. The good portion Jesus speaks of is that Mary is offering him more love, more love in her prayer. God craves our love.

Some are called to be pure contemplatives and some are called to be active contemplatives. I think normally the pure contemplatives have chosen the best path because it's much easier to offer God the love He craves. But having said that we need actives too. Active contempatives cannot usually engage in continual pure contemplation, but they can be contemplatives in the midst of all their active duties. They may not offer the degree of love in their contemplation a pure contemplative would. But they can make up for this by doing Gods will in their active side and contributing this way also. So I think both are equal when done perfectly or near perfectly. It just depends how well you do it. I don't think we should strive to be purely active with only a few prayers a day. You can still go to heaven. But the church says we are called to be saints. Contemplation is needed for this and I think we should try to be active contemplatives if we're not pure contemplatives so we offer God as much love as possible, which is what He wants.

What do you think about all this dear friends?

May God bless us all as we contemplate Him in all creation

John

[puzzleannie]

I don't think there is a dichotomy. just as faith without works is dead and works without faith are vain, action and contemplation go together. Contemplation is not the opposite of action, it is the fullness of action. Contemplatives are not inactive, they are entirely active because they are entirely engaged. Action without contemplation is just busyness. One who would serve or is called to serve through visible action in the world will quickly run out of steam without a contemplative dimension in his spiritual life.

[Departed Light]

John – I love how you call your readers ‘dear friends’

I liked your sharing about these verses too.

I have sort of thought that because Jesus knew peoples hearts that he was chiding Martha for her being annoyed that her sister was slacking for sitting and listening to our Lord instead of helping her out in the kitchen. Martha’s heart was out of sync. I don’t think it’s so much what we do, action verses contemplation, but how we do all things. I forget what Catholic Saint said something like “Pray as if it all depends on God, but act as if it all depends on you.” (I hope that quote is not an urban legend.)

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by Departed Light

John – I love how you call your readers ‘dear friends’

I liked your sharing about these verses too.

I have sort of thought that because Jesus knew peoples hearts that he was chiding Martha for her being annoyed that her sister was slacking for sitting and listening to our Lord instead of helping her out in the kitchen. Martha’s heart was out of sync. I don’t think it’s so much what we do, action verses contemplation, but how we do all things. I forget what Catholic Saint said something like “Pray as if it all depends on God, but act as if it all depends on you.” (I hope that quote is not an urban legend.)

I tend to agree with this. I don't necessarily think that one is any better than the other - active or contemplative. God has planted different seeds in each of us. Some are "A" types and must always be "doing something". This does not mean that we cannote keep God before us and do His will. In Martha's case she was simply attempting to fulfill the obligations of her state in life and the needs of her guests. Both of which are worthy and holy things.
The other "type" is perhaps the more mystical, thoughtful, type who is called to the deeper prayer life - less active in the world but more important for the world for many times such persons carry the evils of the world upon themselves in prayer and supplication before the Lord. They perhaps are able to draw closer to the Lord in this life by such contemplaction, but in the end we need both types.

Peace
James

[John Russell Jr]

Originally Posted by Departed Light

John – I love how you call your readers ‘dear friends’

I liked your sharing about these verses too.

I have sort of thought that because Jesus knew peoples hearts that he was chiding Martha for her being annoyed that her sister was slacking for sitting and listening to our Lord instead of helping her out in the kitchen. Martha’s heart was out of sync. I don’t think it’s so much what we do, action verses contemplation, but how we do all things. I forget what Catholic Saint said something like “Pray as if it all depends on God, but act as if it all depends on you.” (I hope that quote is not an urban legend.)

My dear friend

I often use your quote myself. It's very true. It's an oldie but a beauty. I think the point I make is that no matter what we do what really counts is how much love we put into it. Contemplation is prayer of pure love and the highest form we offer God. Thanks for your thoughts dear friend

I'd say Dear brothers and sisters but often I'm not sure if I'm talking to male or female?

God bless you dear friend

John

[prayerchanges]

This is something I have been struggling with lately in my own discernment process. I was very excited to see this thread and look forward to other replies!

[John Russell Jr]

Originally Posted by puzzleannie

I don't think there is a dichotomy. just as faith without works is dead and works without faith are vain, action and contemplation go together. Contemplation is not the opposite of action, it is the fullness of action. Contemplatives are not inactive, they are entirely active because they are entirely engaged. Action without contemplation is just busyness. One who would serve or is called to serve through visible action in the world will quickly run out of steam without a contemplative dimension in his spiritual life.

Very wise words dear friend. Thank you

God bless you

John

[John Russell Jr]

Originally Posted by JRKH

I tend to agree with this. I don't necessarily think that one is any better than the other - active or contemplative. God has planted different seeds in each of us. Some are "A" types and must always be "doing something". This does not mean that we cannote keep God before us and do His will. In Martha's case she was simply attempting to fulfill the obligations of her state in life and the needs of her guests. Both of which are worthy and holy things.
The other "type" is perhaps the more mystical, thoughtful, type who is called to the deeper prayer life - less active in the world but more important for the world for many times such persons carry the evils of the world upon themselves in prayer and supplication before the Lord. They perhaps are able to draw closer to the Lord in this life by such contemplaction, but in the end we need both types.

Peace
James

Couldn't agree more dear friend. I think all are called to be contemplatives in one form or another. Heaven is eternal mystical contemplation of God and all in God and I think we should be preparing ourselves as best we can for this now. Thanks for your thoughts

May God bless you
John

[John Russell Jr]

Originally Posted by prayerchanges

This is something I have been struggling with lately in my own discernment process. I was very excited to see this thread and look forward to other replies!

My dear friend

Are you considering religious life? I'll pray for you in any case

May God bless you dear friend

John

[prayerchanges]

Originally Posted by John Russell Jr

My dear friend

Are you considering religious life? I'll pray for you in any case

May God bless you dear friend

John

Yeah, I will be visiting a few monasteries this summer, and will hopefully continue in that direction! Thank you for your prayers.

[djeter]

I know the classic interpretation of the verses concerning Martha and Mary concern the contemplative life but I always liked Fr. Barron's take on them:

Martha And Mary The Harried And The Focused Life
The familiar story of the conflict between Martha and Mary (Luke 10:38-42) has often been interpreted as an account of the play between the active and the contemplative life, Jesus signaling his preference for the latter over the former. But I don’t think that reading gets to the heart of it.

It is rather a narrative concerning the spiritual problem of the one and the many. Martha complains that her sister is not helping her with the numerous and time-consuming tasks of hospitality and tells Jesus to do something about it, The Lord responds, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and distracted by many things; there is need of only one thing. Mary has chosen the better part which will not be taken away from her” (Luke 10:41-42).

Martha’s problem is not that she is busy or that she is engaging in the “active” life; her problem is that she is uncentered. Her mind, quite obviously, is divided, drifting from this concern to that, from one anxiety to another; there are many things that preoccupy her. What Mary has chosen is not so much the contemplative life, but the focused life.

She is anchored, rooted in the unum necessarium, as the Vulgate renders this passage. The implication seems to be that, were Mary to help with the many household tasks, she would not be “worried and distracted” by them, since she could relate them to the center, and that, were Martha to sit at the feet of Jesus, she would still squirm with impatience, since her spirit is divided.

As is so often the case in the spiritual life, the issue is not what they’re doing, but how they’re doing it. Indeed, the surest sign that something is off in Martha’s soul is that she even tells God what to do!

We find something very similar in the stories of demonic possession in the Gospels. Notice first how often the demons speak in the plural. In Mark’s account of the possessed man in the Capernaum synagogue, the unfortunate individual shrieks, “What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us?” (Mark 1:24). This is a single person, but he speaks in the voice of the many, for the demonic consciousness is split, riven, uncentered.

What cures the man is precisely the firm and authoritative voice of Christ — the one taming the many. And the same motif emerges in the account of the Gerasene demoniac a few chapters later. When Jesus asks the tormented man his name, he replies, “My name is Legion; for we are many” (Mark 5:9) — or in another even more vivid rendering, “for there are hundreds of us.” Again, the psyche of the sinner is like a tempest, all wind and confusion. But we see something else here: like Martha, the demoniac orders Jesus around: “Send us into the swine; let us enter them” (Mark 5:12). The great mark of the disciple is obedience, abiding by the divine command; and the great mark of the anti-disciple is trying to master God.

Kierkegaard said that to be an integral person is to desire one thing. The saint is someone whose entire life, in all of its multifacetedness, circles like a vortex around one center of gravity: the broken heart of the divine compassion."

More reading selections from "And Now I See" here:

http://payingattentiontothesky.com/r...and-now-i-see/

If you have not seen this video of Fr. Barron, please tune in here (Best 6 minutes you will have today):


http://payingattentiontothesky.com/2...-the-life-out/

In Christ,

dj

[John Russell Jr]

Originally Posted by prayerchanges

Yeah, I will be visiting a few monasteries this summer, and will hopefully continue in that direction! Thank you for your prayers.

to for you.

Sweet Lady of Fatima, pray for your son and guide and protect him.

John

[Little Katie]

The religious life or contemplative life is of equal importance as the married or lay lifestyle. God needs people of both vocations to carry out His. plan. Neither vocation is more important than the other though the nature of each vocation and the way love for God is expressed can be at times vastly differant.

Just my

[John Russell Jr]

Originally Posted by djeter

I know the classic interpretation of the verses concerning Martha and Mary concern the contemplative life but I always liked Fr. Barron's take on them:

Martha And Mary The Harried And The Focused Life
The familiar story of the conflict between Martha and Mary (Luke 10:38-42) has often been interpreted as an account of the play between the active and the contemplative life, Jesus signaling his preference for the latter over the former. But I don’t think that reading gets to the heart of it.

It is rather a narrative concerning the spiritual problem of the one and the many. Martha complains that her sister is not helping her with the numerous and time-consuming tasks of hospitality and tells Jesus to do something about it, The Lord responds, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and distracted by many things; there is need of only one thing. Mary has chosen the better part which will not be taken away from her” (Luke 10:41-42).

Martha’s problem is not that she is busy or that she is engaging in the “active” life; her problem is that she is uncentered. Her mind, quite obviously, is divided, drifting from this concern to that, from one anxiety to another; there are many things that preoccupy her. What Mary has chosen is not so much the contemplative life, but the focused life.

She is anchored, rooted in the unum necessarium, as the Vulgate renders this passage. The implication seems to be that, were Mary to help with the many household tasks, she would not be “worried and distracted” by them, since she could relate them to the center, and that, were Martha to sit at the feet of Jesus, she would still squirm with impatience, since her spirit is divided.

As is so often the case in the spiritual life, the issue is not what they’re doing, but how they’re doing it. Indeed, the surest sign that something is off in Martha’s soul is that she even tells God what to do!

We find something very similar in the stories of demonic possession in the Gospels. Notice first how often the demons speak in the plural. In Mark’s account of the possessed man in the Capernaum synagogue, the unfortunate individual shrieks, “What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us?” (Mark 1:24). This is a single person, but he speaks in the voice of the many, for the demonic consciousness is split, riven, uncentered.

What cures the man is precisely the firm and authoritative voice of Christ — the one taming the many. And the same motif emerges in the account of the Gerasene demoniac a few chapters later. When Jesus asks the tormented man his name, he replies, “My name is Legion; for we are many” (Mark 5:9) — or in another even more vivid rendering, “for there are hundreds of us.” Again, the psyche of the sinner is like a tempest, all wind and confusion. But we see something else here: like Martha, the demoniac orders Jesus around: “Send us into the swine; let us enter them” (Mark 5:12). The great mark of the disciple is obedience, abiding by the divine command; and the great mark of the anti-disciple is trying to master God.

Kierkegaard said that to be an integral person is to desire one thing. The saint is someone whose entire life, in all of its multifacetedness, circles like a vortex around one center of gravity: the broken heart of the divine compassion."

More reading selections from "And Now I See" here:

http://payingattentiontothesky.com/r...and-now-i-see/

If you have not seen this video of Fr. Barron, please tune in here (Best 6 minutes you will have today):


http://payingattentiontothesky.com/2...-the-life-out/

In Christ,

dj

My dear friend

That's some good insights he has. Plenty of truth. I think we should look more beyond the human, even though he does to a degree, to see the pure spiritual meaning in and behind everything. He is good at giving spiritual direction here but I prefer to focus on the spiritual itself. He does make good points though. He is teaching a lesson that's good. I try to come up with answers, solutions and conclusions that most perfectly will result in a final answer - God is Love, without too much effort on our minds. That is where I come from often now. No matter what we think, see, experience or anything we should see God is Love as the conclusion in my opinion. All that matters in the end is love and virtue with us. I like what he says and it's good and from a different angle though. Thank you for posting it

God bless you dear friend

John

[John Russell Jr]

Originally Posted by Little Katie

The religious life or contemplative life is of equal importance as the married or lay lifestyle. God needs people of both vocations to carry out His. plan. Neither vocation is more important than the other though the nature of each vocation and the way love for God is expressed can be at times vastly differant.

Just my

My dear friend

Very good. Your right. All can become saints of equal rank. Thank you

May God bless you dear friend

John