We Grew up with It.

[Sancto Spiritu]

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf

No sir. You, sir, simply do not understand what went on in 1969. You were not there. I was.

You did not grow up within not one but two reverent TLM parishes before 1967. You did not grow up with a Missa Canatata as the primary Sunday Mass in both parishes.
You were were not invited to become a cathedral chorister in 1983 when we still sang the Asperges Me. You did not sing for some 10 years from the 1940 Episcopalian hymnal, all of the Great Sequences in Elizabethan English.

How dare you? Oh, I'm just supposed to roll over and play dead. I'm not supposed to have noticed that the gauzy clad dancers wafting bowls of lit incense.......I'm not supposed to have noticed the banner dancers.

You insult me, sir. You really, really, insult me. And I am not happy. I have served our diocese for twenty years. I have sung in the cathedral choir. Have you? You treat my generation as trash - unless we agree with you.

You're darned straight about my feelings. Who are you to criticize me because I went to a Catholic boys high school in 1969 and was forced to sing Simon and Garfunckle.?

Timothysis, I dealt with you honestly via pm. You could have dealt with me honestly.

Your roots are showing.

+1,000,000. Well-said.

Tim is one of those people who claim to be tolerant but really aren't.

Tim, move over and let us young people vote with our feet. Your and your gray-haired OF only parish will continue to hemorrhage young members while you strum guitars and hold hands during the Our Father. My EF Mass will continue to pack in the youngsters with a Mass of silence, beauty, and serious contemplation.

[CWBetts]

Originally Posted by Sancto Spiritu

Nonsense, huh? Take a quick look at the amount of Catholics who regularly attended Mass in 1940 and then 1970 and then 1980 and then 1990 and then 2000. Then try to make the argument that Catholic spirituality has increased. I dare you.

Look at the statistics. CHurch attendance is down across the board. So is attendance down at the Methodist Church down because their services aren't in Latin? Maybe you should blame the genral seculrization of our culture, and not your chosen "bogeyman" of the OF Mass

[Indyann]

Originally Posted by Sancto Spiritu

+1,000,000. Well-said.

Tim is one of those people who claim to be tolerant but really aren't.

Tim, move over and let us young people vote with our feet. Your and your gray-haired OF only parish will continue to hemorrhage young members while you strum guitars and hold hands during the Our Father. My EF Mass will continue to pack in the youngsters with a Mass of silence, beauty, and serious contemplation.

well, looks like one 10-count pack of candles will be enough for your birthday cake!

[Sancto Spiritu]

Originally Posted by CWBetts

Look at the statistics. CHurch attendance is down across the board. So is attendance down at the Methodist Church down because their services aren't in Latin? Maybe you should blame the genral seculrization of our culture, and not your chosen "bogeyman" of the OF Mass

Oh puh-leeeeeeeeeze.

Another apologist for the complete misinterpretation of Vatican II.

The "secularization of culture" was only exacerbated by the incredible loss of Catholic identity that occurred after the misinterpretation of Vatican II forced Latin out of the Mass.

[Sancto Spiritu]

Originally Posted by Indyann

well, looks like one 10-count pack of candles will be enough for your birthday cake!

You're doing it wrong. This might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour

[CWBetts]

Originally Posted by Sancto Spiritu

Oh puh-leeeeeeeeeze.

Another apologist for the complete misinterpretation of Vatican II.

The "secularization of culture" was only exacerbated by the incredible loss of Catholic identity that occurred after the misinterpretation of Vatican II forced Latin out of the Mass.

Tell me which VII document "forced Latin out of the MAss"

[Sancto Spiritu]

Originally Posted by CWBetts

Tell me which VII document "forced Latin out of the MAss"

NONE. THAT'S MY POINT.

Go ahead and re-read what I wrote:

...the misinterpretation of Vatican II forced Latin out of the Mass.

[Timothysis]

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf

No sir. You, sir, simply do not understand what went on in 1969. You were not there. I was.

True

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf

You did not grow up within not one but two reverent TLM parishes before 1967. You did not grow up with a Missa Canatata as the primary Sunday Mass in both parishes.
You were were not invited to become a cathedral chorister in 1983 when we still sang the Asperges Me. You did not sing for some 10 years from the 1940 Episcopalian hymnal, all of the Great Sequences in Elizabethan English.

True

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf

How dare you? Oh, I'm just supposed to roll over and play dead.

Who asked you to?

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf

You insult me, sir. You really, really, insult me. And I am not happy.

Oh, settle down.

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf

I have served our diocese for twenty years. I have sung in the cathedral choir. Have you?

No.

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf

You treat my generation as trash - unless we agree with you.

Whatever you say.

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf

You're darned straight about my feelings. Who are you to criticize me because I went to a Catholic boys high school in 1969 and was forced to sing Simon and Garfunckle.?

I have no desire to "criticize me because I went to a Catholic boys high school in 1969 and was forced to sing Simon and Garfunckle." I just find it interesting that you lament how you "lost" What We Grew Up With. I have told you several times that there is a latin Mass 5 minutes away from the cathedral at St. Agnes parish and you tell me that it's just a "low Mass," not the Missa Canatata that you grew up with. The diocese uses the Missal of Pope Paul VI for the celebration of Mass. I personally think that it is unreasonable for anyone to expect that the celebration of Mass should conform to their personal preference. If that were the case, God only knows what kind of outrages we would probably witness from one parish to another.

Honestly, I don't understand why you think that Mass in Baton Rouge in 2009 should be celebrated the way you experienced 40 years ago in New Orleans. I also don't understand why you think that you personally should be instrumental in the decisions and the logistics for the celebration of Mass. We all have to submit to proper authority, be it home, work, school, and even church. The fact that you think "You treat my generation as trash - unless we agree with you" seems puzzling , considering the amount of anger you seem to have because we don't "agree with you." I have never asked the church to conform to me. I found a good, reverent parish and have been going there ever since. For me, Mass is not about what I personally want; it is about sanctification, not gratification.

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf

Timothysis, I dealt with you honestly via pm. You could have dealt with me honestly.

Sorry you feel that way but I am allowed to have my own views and opinions...and that includes those posted on an open forum.

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf

Your roots are showing.

Time for some Just For Men...

[CWBetts]

Originally Posted by Sancto Spiritu

NONE. THAT'S MY POINT.

Go ahead and re-read what I wrote:

Latin started leaving the Mass pre VII.

[Sancto Spiritu]

Just for Men? I KNEW it!

I bet there's lots of Just for Men floating around that OF parish of yours. At my EF, we typically see more freshly-granted high school diplomas and newborn babies.

[Sancto Spiritu]

Originally Posted by CWBetts

Latin started leaving the Mass pre VII.

Yes, it did.

But we're not talking about when Latin started to leave the Mass. We're talking about when it LEFT the Mass.

The American Church's reasoning behind chucking Latin was "Vatican II said we could." How wrong wrong wrong they were.

[CWBetts]

Originally Posted by Sancto Spiritu

Just for Men? I KNEW it!

I bet there's lots of Just for Men floating around that OF parish of yours. At my EF, we typically see more freshly-granted high school diplomas and newborn babies.

And I forgot, all you 20-somethings know all there is to know. Well let me fill you in on this. Vatican II, as n Ecumenical Council, is part of the Magesterium, and as such rejection of Vatican II, as you seem to espouse, is heterodox and must be avoided.

[Timothysis]

Originally Posted by Sancto Spiritu

Tim is one of those people who claim to be tolerant but really aren't.

And you are breathing example of tolerance?

Originally Posted by Sancto Spiritu

Tim, move over and let us young people vote with our feet. Your and your gray-haired OF only parish will continue to hemorrhage young members while you strum guitars and hold hands during the Our Father. My EF Mass will continue to pack in the youngsters with a Mass of silence, beauty, and serious contemplation.

Your ignorance is only matched by your insolence.

FYI, it is my "gray-haired OF" church goers who wear veils, belong to the parish Holy Name Society, who receive communion on the tongue at a communion rail without a EM to be seen, who sing the traditional hymns, pray the rosary and chant the agnes dei.

But I am glad to see that your Jesus is better than my Jesus.

[Sancto Spiritu]

Originally Posted by CWBetts

And I forgot, all you 20-somethings know all there is to know. Well let me fill you in on this. Vatican II, as n Ecumenical Council, is part of the Magesterium, and as such rejection of Vatican II, as you seem to espouse, is heterodox and must be avoided.

Who said I rejected Vatican II??????????? I certainly never said that!

In fact, I've gone out of my way to ACCEPT Vatican II- albeit a proper interpretation of it. So sorry if my desire for proper interpretation gets in the way of your agenda.

Yes, we 20-somethings don't know much. You baby boomers are so smart...which is why our country isn't in trouble or anything. Thanks for your wonderful stewardship of the nation!

[Sancto Spiritu]

Originally Posted by Timothysis

And you are breathing example of tolerance?
Your ignorance is only matched by your insolence.

FYI, it is my "gray-haired OF" church goers who wear veils, belong to the parish Holy Name Society, who receive communion on the tongue at a communion rail without a EM to be seen, who sing the traditional hymns, pray the rosary and chant the agnes dei.

But I am glad to see that your Jesus is better than my Jesus.

Good for them. But the drivel you're espousing here would probably make them gag!