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  #1  
Old Aug 16, '09, 5:10 pm
sixofseven sixofseven is offline
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Default Presbyterian service and Mass in one day with fiance

I'm finding it difficult to evangelise to H2B, he simply thinks I'm always trying to correct him, and tell him he's wrong, and rub it in his face (which is of course, not true!).

I went to a Presbyterian service on the weekend with him. He is not baptised and has been searching for a church to belong to - of course, I would love it to be the Catholic Church but he's not quite getting his head around it...yet (pray for him St Monica!). He wanted to try this church to see what they had going on.

The service, I have to say, was wonderful - young families, young people, fantastic singing, the preaching was in-depth and really challenged each person to look at themselves and how we are spreading the message of Jesus. H2B was over the moon! He's found what he's been looking for! Which is great, I'm happy for him. The dancing and singing and smiles and community is wonderful to see and I truly wish that the Mass had the same effect on people. There is no comparison for me though, I simply cannot do without the Eucharist or the solemnity of the Mass.

One of the preachings in the service was that it is our job to go out and tell everyone the message of Jesus (Luke 10), and we know that sometimes people will not listen and we have to walk away at that time and shake the dust off our feet.

I tried to explain afterward that it is the same with the Eucharist - in John 6 people didn't accept the message and Jesus let them go and even asked the apostles if they also wanted to leave. The message is there but Jesus does not force us to accept it, but those who do accept it will have eternal life. H2B did not like hearing that at all - like I was trying to rain on his parade - I just want to share Jesus' message with him like we had just been taught!!!

So we went to Mass later that evening (presbyterian service was that morning) and of course we are hearing the gospel of John 6.

What I'm finding difficult - in wanting H2B to understand the Catholic belief - is that in the morning we spent around 45min looking at Luke 10, and only about 5 minutes looking at John 6 at Mass. H2B even commented how quick the Mass was. The Mass assumes everyone knows whats believed and said and taught, but I know that its not the case!

I'm just not sure how to evangelise to him when he only sees it as me proving him wrong and being negative. How can I make it more of a positive experience (for both of us!)?
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  #2  
Old Aug 16, '09, 6:11 pm
Mel Stones Mel Stones is offline
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Default Re: Presbyterian service and Mass in one day with fiance

Are you in marriage preparation with a priest (because you know your suppose to be for a minimum of 6 months before the marriage)? I would ask him and your parish RCIA director for advise. Ask your H2B if he is willing to learn about the Catholic faith in RCIA.

From a quick glance of Luke 10 - Jesus appointed men to go out. A common Protestant belief is that everything Jesus said is to be applied to all. As Catholics we believe each is called to a vocation (i.e. religious life, married life, etc).

Also as Catholics we don't believe everyone is called to interpret the Bible. I agree though that we sometime assume everyone knows the message. In fact my priest mentioned that in his homily, but realize too that we have been learning about Jesus as the bread of life for the past 5 weeks or so and will have at least one more lesson on it next week. Preaching is not the main thing at Mass, but it is the main thing at most Protestant churches.
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  #3  
Old Aug 16, '09, 8:40 pm
sixofseven sixofseven is offline
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Default Re: Presbyterian service and Mass in one day with fiance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel Stones View Post
Are you in marriage preparation with a priest (because you know your suppose to be for a minimum of 6 months before the marriage)? I would ask him and your parish RCIA director for advise. Ask your H2B if he is willing to learn about the Catholic faith in RCIA.

From a quick glance of Luke 10 - Jesus appointed men to go out. A common Protestant belief is that everything Jesus said is to be applied to all. As Catholics we believe each is called to a vocation (i.e. religious life, married life, etc).

Also as Catholics we don't believe everyone is called to interpret the Bible. I agree though that we sometime assume everyone knows the message. In fact my priest mentioned that in his homily, but realize too that we have been learning about Jesus as the bread of life for the past 5 weeks or so and will have at least one more lesson on it next week. Preaching is not the main thing at Mass, but it is the main thing at most Protestant churches.
Yes that is exactly what the sermon said - that the 72 were representative of the 72 nations mentioned in Genesis and so therefore it meant EVERYONE is appointed to go out and spread the message. It didn't quite sit right with me.

We have already done a marriage prep course and meet with our priest whenever possible (he's a relative and lives in another town). It's difficult because we don't live in the same place so a lot of this stuff comes to a head when we see each other on weekends and go to church and Mass.

There is an info session coming up on the Catholic faith in the parish we will belong to once we're married so I will ask if he would consider going along.
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  #4  
Old Aug 17, '09, 12:13 pm
Mel Stones Mel Stones is offline
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Default Re: Presbyterian service and Mass in one day with fiance

It sounds like your H2B only believes something if he can be shown 100% Biblical proof and as Catholics we base what we do on Scripture and Tradition. Think about it - the Bible wasn't even written until decades after Christ ascended into Heaven, it wasn't in circulation until 100s of years after that, and more than half the world now (and even more in the early centuries) is illiterate. If faith is based on Scripture only and the individual's ability to interpret it, the majority of creation is going to hell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sixofseven View Post
The service, I have to say, was wonderful - young families, young people, fantastic singing, the preaching was in-depth and really challenged each person to look at themselves and how we are spreading the message of Jesus. H2B was over the moon! He's found what he's been looking for! Which is great, I'm happy for him. The dancing and singing and smiles and community is wonderful to see and I truly wish that the Mass had the same effect on people.
The Mass is not there for our amusement, it is there to strengthen our relationship with God. And, believe it or not, the Mass is there to be PARTICIPATED IN not observed. Many Catholics don't even understand this because Protestant services seem to have so much more participation than Mass does. "Mass Appeal" by David DesOrmeaux may be a good book to read. There is so much meaning in the Mass we all take for granted.

I would find a way to meet with a priest on a regular basis and do a proper marriage preparation. I know it is wonderful to be married by a family member, but what's more important who marries you or your understanding of marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixofseven View Post
There is an info session coming up on the Catholic faith in the parish we will belong to once we're married so I will ask if he would consider going along.
I strongly recommend you both attend. If H2B won't go, I recommend you go anyway.
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  #5  
Old Aug 18, '09, 7:47 am
lahrahb lahrahb is offline
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Default Re: Presbyterian service and Mass in one day with fiance

I used to be a Presbyterian before I converted to Catholicism 5 years ago. I always felt that the services for the Presbyterian church I was raised at, were similiar to the Catholic Mass. BUT....I think the one thing that made me need to become Catholic was the Eucharist. What I mean by that, is during the consecration I would kneel down and I would just feel like God was actually there. No one had to tell me, I could just sense it. After the experience of being in God's presence I didn't see in point in going back to the Presbyterian Church. They might have had wonderful study programs and been wonderful Christians but I still felt like it lacked. Before I was Catholic I had friends that were Protestant and Catholic and we'd all just go to both services in the same day. It was ecumenical and made me feel more like they weren't saying my church was "wrong". In the end comparing them side by side made me realize what the Catholic church had. Ultimately, my advice would be not to push him too hard. You don't want him to feel like he has to convert. I know if my husband had pushed me, I would have felt it was just the Catholics saying they were better than the Protestants. At the same time, maybe take him to Adoration and show him that while bible study is wonderful and can't be replaced, in Catholic spirituality there is true reverent worship as well....plus, maybe he'll feel God's presence there too
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  #6  
Old Aug 18, '09, 4:26 pm
sixofseven sixofseven is offline
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Default Re: Presbyterian service and Mass in one day with fiance

Quote:
Originally Posted by lahrahb View Post
I used to be a Presbyterian before I converted to Catholicism 5 years ago. I always felt that the services for the Presbyterian church I was raised at, were similiar to the Catholic Mass. BUT....I think the one thing that made me need to become Catholic was the Eucharist. What I mean by that, is during the consecration I would kneel down and I would just feel like God was actually there. No one had to tell me, I could just sense it. After the experience of being in God's presence I didn't see in point in going back to the Presbyterian Church. They might have had wonderful study programs and been wonderful Christians but I still felt like it lacked. Before I was Catholic I had friends that were Protestant and Catholic and we'd all just go to both services in the same day. It was ecumenical and made me feel more like they weren't saying my church was "wrong". In the end comparing them side by side made me realize what the Catholic church had. Ultimately, my advice would be not to push him too hard. You don't want him to feel like he has to convert. I know if my husband had pushed me, I would have felt it was just the Catholics saying they were better than the Protestants. At the same time, maybe take him to Adoration and show him that while bible study is wonderful and can't be replaced, in Catholic spirituality there is true reverent worship as well....plus, maybe he'll feel God's presence there too
I really try not to push him - I don't want him to convert for my sake, I say what I say when I feel I should say it, but generally I've left it up to the Holy Spirit to work in him and Our Lady to guide him to her Son.

I think one of the major differences is that protestant services are in-depth 'lessons' whereas Mass is not a lesson, it is worship - it is the height of worship, and the lessons are done elsewhere and at other times, school, the home etc.

He has trouble understanding/accepting the Eucharist/Real Presence - so I try my best to show him, rather than tell him, how sacred and special this sacrament is by showing reverence, and abstaining if I haven't been to confession etc etc. He knows how important it is to me, but I don't think it has struck a chord within himself yet - he doesn't kneel during the consecration or anything, but I know he observes what I and other parishioners and the priest are doing.
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  #7  
Old Aug 18, '09, 4:37 pm
sixofseven sixofseven is offline
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Join Date: October 26, 2008
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Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Presbyterian service and Mass in one day with fiance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel Stones View Post

The Mass is not there for our amusement, it is there to strengthen our relationship with God. And, believe it or not, the Mass is there to be PARTICIPATED IN not observed. Many Catholics don't even understand this because Protestant services seem to have so much more participation than Mass does. "Mass Appeal" by David DesOrmeaux may be a good book to read. There is so much meaning in the Mass we all take for granted.

I would find a way to meet with a priest on a regular basis and do a proper marriage preparation. I know it is wonderful to be married by a family member, but what's more important who marries you or your understanding of marriage?

I strongly recommend you both attend. If H2B won't go, I recommend you go anyway.
I know that Mass is not for our amusement, but I do think that sometimes people go as just part of their routine, to tick it off their list - and that makes it really difficult to try and tell a protestant how wonderful Mass really is. The service that we went to....moved people, and it wasn't because it was happy-clappy, it was because it was gutsy - the sermon was meaty and challenging and inspiring, and H2B and I were still talking about it hours later. I think more homilies should be like this.

I agree with you that a lot of Catholics don't have a great understanding of the Mass, thanks for the book reference, I'll see if I can get a copy.

I would like to meet with a priest on a regular basis, and will see what I can do.
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