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  #1  
Old Sep 14, '09, 2:29 pm
allan77 allan77 is offline
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Default why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

hiya,
me again,

Why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other?
can we not all agree to disagree and respect each others beliefs?
after all we beleive in the same thing- jesus, mary, the lord etc.
obviousley there are differences between the two religions, but why so angry?
This is what really puts me off. This makes me feel as if both are just cults fighting with each other to see who is the true church!!
I know that will seem offensive,but please remember I genuinley do not mean to offend.
god be with you all

Allan77
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  #2  
Old Sep 14, '09, 2:54 pm
YADA YADA is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

Quote:
Originally Posted by allan77 View Post
hiya,
me again,

Why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other?
can we not all agree to disagree and respect each others beliefs?
after all we beleive in the same thing- jesus, mary, the lord etc.
obviousley there are differences between the two religions, but why so angry?
This is what really puts me off. This makes me feel as if both are just cults fighting with each other to see who is the true church!!
I know that will seem offensive,but please remember I genuinley do not mean to offend.
god be with you all

Allan77
Hello Allan77......I think your questions is far too broad a characterization .... Many catholics and protestants are very friendly and work coopoeratively with each other ..... For example in my diocese, we have a catholic parish and a lutheran church who share worhsip space [the same church building] and besides their seperate Sunday liturgies thay share in many other events - advent activities, etc .....

My parish - in conjuction with 6 other local churches - operates and funds two transitional homes. These two homes are located on the grounds of two of the churches but all of the churches came together to create the organization that funds and provides assistance to these families ..... this Transitional Shelter has operated for over 25 years [started with one apartment that used the church kitchen].

Examples abound where Christians work together and in harmony ... we share much ....

Now days there are extremes I can think of ... and anti-catholicim has a long history in the states [and in Europe] ...

An objectve look at the history of the Reformation and the severe abuses [killings, imprisonments, etc] on both sides can explain some of the origins .... for instance did you know that a catholic could not hold a governent [public] position in England even into the 20th century? .....

As for the difference in beliefs ... I think we could agree that there is abjective truth ... that truth is not subject to the times, it is not one truth for you and one truth for me ... that concept can make for lively debate amongst peoples as they seek out and discern what that truth is
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  #3  
Old Sep 14, '09, 3:05 pm
Della Della is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

Are the people really bitter towards each other or towards what each other believes? There is a big difference.

Protestants who strongly disagree with the Catholic Church are those who believe the Bible is the sole rule of faith--a claim which is not in any way biblical. It is something they assume because that is what they have been told by fellow Protestants.

Historically, the New Testament didn't exist as we have it for nearly 400 years after Jesus' Ascension. It was not the sole rule of faith for the early Church--the Apostles were. Jesus never commissioned a book to be written to tell us all about his teachings. He appointed Apostles to do that by preaching and teaching. Some of the Apostles happened to write down parts of Jesus' life and teaching, but not all of it. The Bible was never meant to be what our Protestant brethren claim for it.

That is why Catholics and "Bible only" Protestants so strongly disagree. Protestants have a shortened version of Christianity that doesn't explain enough. The founders of their faith communities rejected some of the teachings of the Church Christ founded. The Catholic Church was founded by Christ and has not changed the teachings of Christ for 2000 years. Whereas, the Protestants have taken out certain teachings and then tried to find reasons for doing that by back-reading their reasons into the Bible. That's why.
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  #4  
Old Sep 14, '09, 4:28 pm
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

Quote:
=allan77;5699057]hiya,
me again,

Why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other?
A varity of reasons, personalities and levels of ability to effectively communicate.

Quote:
can we not all agree to disagree and respect each others beliefs?
God has written the truth [single truth for any one topic] in His Catholic Bible. Eph. 4: 4-7

4 "There is one body [The CC] and one Spirit,[One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, [Jesus] one faith, [Catholic] one baptism,[In water through the Trinity] 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ's gift

In other words one must seek The Truth in order to find it. If God had desired more than one Christian Church He would have said so. We Catholics guided by the Chuch which is protected by the HS, are obligated to share THE Truth. [Mt. 28:19-20].

Quote:
after all we beleive in the same thing- jesus, mary, the lord etc.
Oh that your statement were true. There are in excess of 30,000 protestant denominatons each holding "its own idea of truth." It just can't be.

Quote:
obviousley there are differences between the two religions, but why so angry?
Here I am in complete agreement with you. Satan has no control over our freewills but a great deat of influence over our emotions. And sadly many debates do get emotional

Quote:
This is what really puts me off. This makes me feel as if both are just cults fighting with each other to see who is the true church!!
I can certainly see your point: here are some passages showing that the CC is the One True Church.

Quote:
Allan77
17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I [Jesus] tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock [singular] I will build my church, [singular] and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I [Jesus] will give you [Peter /the CC] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Allan that is very clear and concise.

Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

Mark 3: 13 “And he went up on the mountain, and called to him those whom he desired; and they came to him. 14 And he appointed twelve, to be with him, and to be sent out to preach and have authority to cast out demons: Simon whom he surnamed Peter; James the son of Zebedee and John the brother of James, whom he surnamed Bo-anerges, that is, sons of thunder; Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.”

Eph. 2:19 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

Mt. 28: 18 "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."


*2 Cor. 13: “8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.”

John 8: 31”Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, "If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples,and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

Gal. 2: “5 to them we did not yield submission even for a moment, that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.”

John 14: 16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.

2: Tim. 4: “3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths. 5 As for you, always be steady, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.”


John 17: "Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I [Jesus] consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth".

God did this ONLY for His CC.

1 Tim. 3:15 “if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, [singular] the pillar [singular] and bulwark of the truth. [singular] Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion:”

Eph. 2:19 19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.


So Allan, we Catholic have the TRUTH because God gives it to us. We must defend and share it


Love and prayers,
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  #5  
Old Sep 14, '09, 5:22 pm
FickleFreckled FickleFreckled is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

PJM's signature says it all - "Please, in all things Christian love and Charity."

We shouldn't be bitter or resentful of each other and most of us aren't.
The ones who are have a need to be right or superior at any cost.
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  #6  
Old Sep 15, '09, 10:06 am
Della Della is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

Quote:
Originally Posted by FickleFreckled View Post
PJM's signature says it all - "Please, in all things Christian love and Charity."

We shouldn't be bitter or resentful of each other and most of us aren't.
The ones who are have a need to be right or superior at any cost.
Yes, no Catholic should have the attitude that he is superior to anyone. Having the fullness of truth doesn't equal arrogance. But, putting on airs because of it certainly would be arrogant. We are to be like Jesus--humble before all men, but telling the truth to them in love, and with respect for them as fellow men created in the image of God.
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  #7  
Old Sep 15, '09, 10:24 am
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

Quote:
=FickleFreckled;5699733]PJM's signature says it all - "Please, in all things Christian love and Charity."

We shouldn't be bitter or resentful of each other and most of us aren't.
The ones who are have a need to be right or superior at any cost.
Sharing a personal thought.


I don't [often] see bitterness or resentment from fellow Catholics. Our's is more bewilderment, fustration that what the bible clearly says [I use the forth grader test... if they can understand it everybody should] but its not to be.

It is not so much a lack of understanding, I think, as it is evidence of a lack of Faith, a belief in how very much God loves us, and what a personal God, God is. I also know that Faith is a free gift from God, that can be and at times is rejected [yes by Catholics too at times].And in the end, the unlimited power and love of God for us, whose love we cannot comprehend.

[color="DarkRed"]Heb. 11: 1"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.[/COLOR]


1 Tim. 4: 6 "If you put these instructions before the brethren, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the words of the faith and of the good doctrine which you have followed.Have nothing to do with godless and silly myths. Train yourself in godliness;for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.The saying is sure and worthy of full acceptance. For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. Command and teach these things. Let no one despise your youth, but set the believers an example in speech and conduct, in love, in faith, in purity."

Rom. 10: "17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ."

I'll get off my soap box now

Love and prayers,
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  #8  
Old Sep 15, '09, 10:35 am
YADA YADA is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
Sharing a personal thought.


I don't [often] see bitterness or resentment from fellow Catholics. Our's is more bewilderment, fustration that what the bible clearly says [I use the forth grader test... if they can understand it everybody should] but its not to be.

It is not so much a lack of understanding, I think, as it is evidence of a lack of Faith, a belief in how very much God loves us, and what a personal God, God is. I also know that Faith is a free gift from God, that can be and at times is rejected [yes by Catholics too at times].And in the end, the unlimited power and love of God for us, whose love we cannot comprehend.I'll get off my soap box now

Love and prayers,

I ditto this ... in my post I illustrated a couple of places where we work together ..... look at all of the Protestant Ministers that were invited to observe Vatican II? ....

I do not think that the vast majority of Catholics and Protestants are 'bitter' ... it is a false arguement ... though there are those who still foster anti-catholic [and anti-protestant] sentiments .....

When I received my MA in Pastoral Ministry a Presbyterian Church tried to recruit me for their assistant pastor [kind of wish I had considered it more seriously as I am unemployed currenty] ... I knew some members of the serach committe.

I told them "I am a catholic" ... they said it did not matter to them ...I said "I am not going to change nor would I consider becoming a Presbyterian" ... they said it did not matter ... as long as I could teach scripture, visit the sick, work with youth and assist the pastor ... ... hows that for "bitterness"? ... I figured the Pastor would have 'issues' and I was not looking for a job anyway - I volunteer enough hours at my parish for nearly a full time job and .. I own a small company [economy is killing me now ]

I think it is more important to speak to real and concrete examples of "bitterness" ... true anti-Catholic [Protestant] actions ... not generalities ... the Current society has many anti-Christian elements that unite us .... generalities are often Strawmen arguements that are un-productive ... Specifics make for better discussions and offer more opportunities for correction or improvement
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  #9  
Old Sep 15, '09, 4:51 pm
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

Quote:
=YADA;5702522]I ditto this ... in my post I illustrated a couple of places where we work together ..... look at all of the Protestant Ministers that were invited to observe Vatican II? ....

I do not think that the vast majority of Catholics and Protestants are 'bitter' ... it is a false arguement ... though there are those who still foster anti-catholic [and anti-protestant] sentiments .....

When I received my MA in Pastoral Ministry a Presbyterian Church tried to recruit me for their assistant pastor [kind of wish I had considered it more seriously as I am unemployed currenty] ... I knew some members of the serach committe.

I told them "I am a catholic" ... they said it did not matter to them ...I said "I am not going to change nor would I consider becoming a Presbyterian" ... they said it did not matter ... as long as I could teach scripture, visit the sick, work with youth and assist the pastor ... ... hows that for "bitterness"? ... I figured the Pastor would have 'issues' and I was not looking for a job anyway - I volunteer enough hours at my parish for nearly a full time job and .. I own a small company [economy is killing me now ]

I think it is more important to speak to real and concrete examples of "bitterness" ... true anti-Catholic [Protestant] actions ... not generalities ... the Current society has many anti-Christian elements that unite us .... generalities are often Strawmen arguements that are un-productive ... Specifics make for better discussions and offer more opportunities for correction or improvement
God bless you and your now on my prayer list.
God is in CHARGE
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  #10  
Old Sep 15, '09, 7:41 pm
Gottle of Geer Gottle of Geer is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

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Originally Posted by allan77 View Post
hiya,
me again,

Why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other?
can we not all agree to disagree and respect each others beliefs?
after all we beleive in the same thing- jesus, mary, the lord etc.
obviousley there are differences between the two religions, but why so angry?
This is what really puts me off. This makes me feel as if both are just cults fighting with each other to see who is the true church!!
I know that will seem offensive,but please remember I genuinley do not mean to offend.
god be with you all

Allan77
## Why ? The legacy of 450+ years of bad blood, largely. STM you're right in your remark about cults.
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  #11  
Old Sep 15, '09, 11:23 pm
YADA YADA is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

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God bless you and your now on my prayer list.
God is in CHARGE
Thanks for your kind words and prayers PJM ... I will pray for you in return ....

May God's peace envelope your heart and give you grace to serve Him with abundant joy
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  #12  
Old Sep 16, '09, 6:49 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

I don't know that they are bitter toward each other. That has not been my experience in working with professional colleagues of other faiths, or in working with converts and their families. I doubt if a generalization like this is helpful or relevant. Why not reframe the question to ask about a specific issue, occasion, pastor, writer etc.
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  #13  
Old Sep 16, '09, 8:04 am
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Joe 5859 Joe 5859 is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

I think it's easy to get the impression of bitterness from the internet, particularly on discussion boards. "Lively debate" (as YADA eloquently put it ) can often be perceived as anger or bitterness. Sometimes there really is bitterness in such discussions, but not always.

In real life, I think it's not quite the same way. Most of us are respectful towards other Christians most of the time. Charity and respect is always the goal, even if we fall short of that occasionally.

The Church has written much in the last 40 years on our relationship with other Christian traditions and the desire for Christian unity. There's even a fancy word for it called "ecumenism". Vatican II has a document devoted specifically to that topic: Decree on Ecumenism.

There are differences in doctrine that should not be overlooked, but we should also point to and celebrate those areas of agreement and always be respectful when we do disagree.

I think you are right to be "put off" by anger. If you weren't, I would be worried about you! Just remember the Church is a hospital for sinners. We do not always live up to the ideals. But we keep trying.
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The more I follow the online discussions ... the more I follow the debates and disagreements in the Church about administrative unity, or the concerns expressed about the moral or personal or administrative or leadership failings of the bishops or the clergy, the more I become convinced that whatever might be the truth of these concerns, ALL of this is simply a distraction. No, it’s more than that. It’s a justification, an excuse, for not helping each other and those outside the Church fall in love with Jesus Christ. How easy it is to talk about everything, but about Jesus hardly at all.

- Fr. Gregory Jensen
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  #14  
Old Sep 16, '09, 8:25 am
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lizaanne lizaanne is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

Bitterness? No. But I do get very angry when Protestants say things about the Catholic Church that are downright lies, that they steal parishoners by luring them into "entertainment services" and calling it worship, and when Catholics are led AWAY from the Truth in the Catholic Church by such actions.

Oh yeah - that makes me very angry. You see, I want all souls to go to heaven, I don't care who it is. So when an ecclesial community works actively AGAINST the ONLY Church that Christ left on this earth through His apostles, it does get me going a bit.

Not all ecclesial communities do this (they are not churches by the way, only the Catholic Church can be called Church) - but there are enough out there that do.

~Liza
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  #15  
Old Sep 16, '09, 10:07 am
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: why are catholics and protestants so bitter towards each other

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=Gottle of Geer;5704814]## Why ? The legacy of 450+ years of bad blood, largely. STM you're right in your remark about cults.
Allan 77, Michael,

As an informed practicing Catholic, I'm not the least bit angry

Fustrated and bewildered, but not angry. Our God given mind, intellect and freewill comes with the guareentee of personal choice.

Even among those professing Love of God, is the choice to do it MY way or in humility in Gods way. Most often they are not the same And seemingly My way happens a great deal more often than Gods Will, God's way.

Love and prayers,
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