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  #1  
Old Jun 18, '04, 3:03 am
randall_brown randall_brown is offline
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Question 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

I could use a bit of help here on something my wife found on the Internet, and we're trying to see if it's in line with the Church's teachings.


THE FIFTEEN SECRET TORTURES OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST

Revealed to the Pious, God-loving Sister Mary Magdalen of the Sancta Clara Order, Franciscan, who lived, died and was beatified in Rome. Jesus fulfilled the wish of the Sister who desired ardently to know something about the secret tortures which He endured the night before His death.

This devotion is approved and recommended by His Holiness Clement II, 1730-1740)

1. They fastened My feet with a rope and dragged Me over the stepping stones of the staircase, down into a filthy, nauseating cellar.
2. They took off My clothing and stung My body with iron joints.

3. They attached a rope around my body and pulled Me along the ground, from end to end.

4. They hanged Me on a wooden piece with a slipknot until I slipped out and fell down. Overwhelmed by this torture, I wept bloody tears.

5. They tied Me to a post and pierced My body with various arms.

6. They struck Me with stones and burnt me with blazing embers and torches.

7.T hey pierced Me with awls; sharp spears tore My skin, flesh and arteries out of My body.

8. They tied Me to a post and made Me stand, barefoot, on an incandescent metal sheet.

9. They crowned Me with an iron crown and wrapped My eyes with the dirtiest possible rags.

10. They made Me sit on a chair covered with sharp pointed nails, causing deep wounds in My body.

11. They poured on My wounds liquid lead and resin and, after this torture, they pressed Me on the nailed chair, so the nails went deeper and deeper into My flesh.

12. For shame and affliction, they drove needles into the holes of My uprooted beard. Then they tied My hands behind My back and led Me walking out of prison with strikes and blows.

13. They threw Me upon a cross and attached Me so tightly that I could hardly breathe anymore.

14. They threw at My head as I lay on the earth, and they stepped on Me, hurting my breast.

15.They poured into My mouth the most immodest excretions, as they uttered the most infamous expressions about Me. "



Then Jesus added:

My daughter, I desire that you let everyone know these FIFTEEN SECRET TORTURES, in order that every one of them be honored. Anyone who daily offers Me, with love, one of these sufferings and says with fervor the following prayer, will be rewarded with eternal glory on the Day of Judgment.

"My Lord and My God, it is my unchangeable will to honor You in these FIFTEEN SECRET TORTURES when You shed Your Precious Blood. As many times as there are grains of sand around the seas, as grains of wheat in the fields, as blades of grass in the meadows, as fruit in the orchards, as leaves on the trees, as flowers in the gardens, as stars in the sky, as angels in Heaven, as creatures on earth, so many thousands of times may Thou be glorified, praised and honored. O most love worthy Lord Jesus Christ--Your Holiest Heart, Your Precious Blood, Your Divine Sacrifice for mankind, the Holiest Sacrament of the Altar, the Most Holy Virgin Mary, the nine glorious choirs of Angels and the Blessed Phalax of the Saints, from myself and everyone, now and forever, and in the eternal ages. Amen"

Questions:

Why are these considered "secret"?
Is this an appropriate devotion to Jesus to pray ?
How do you discern what a "good" and "Catholic " type of devotion ?

Any advice is greatly appreciated .
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Randall Brown, MI

Vivat Jesu

Last edited by randall_brown; Jun 18, '04 at 3:16 am.
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  #2  
Old Jun 18, '04, 3:58 am
Sir Knight Sir Knight is offline
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Default Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

1. I, personally, have never heard of them but that doesn't mean much.

2. They may be considered "secret" because they were not recorded in scripture.

3. I would seek written (not just on the internet) confirmation that this devotion is approved and recommended by His Holiness Clement II. If it turns out to be true, I see nothing wrong with engaging in this devotion and even sharing it with others.
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  #3  
Old Jun 18, '04, 6:12 am
Veronica Anne Veronica Anne is offline
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Default Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

Just because it's on the Internet doesn't necessarily mean that it's true.

I'm a cradle Catholic and never heard of that, either.

So I made a Google search (www.google.com) on where on the 'Net all the words appeared together.

There's only 5 sites that came up.

http://www.newsflash.org/2004/02/ht/ht004278.htm

http://www.newsflash.org/htindex.htm

http://cvhope.20m.com/15tortures.htm



Okay... here's a Web page that denounces that "15 secret tortures" thing... you have to scroll down to the end of the page, but the comments on it are worth reading.

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-93281/kkelizab.htm



This Web page, also, denounces that "15 secet tortures" thing. My concern that just got raised from reading the comments is that a "Born Again" is saying that this is another falsehood put out by the Catholic Church.

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-93281/kkelizab.htm

At the end of the page they say:

It's a shame that Rome has resorted to such fairytales to mock Jesus. It's even sadder that men fell for it!!

(by Rebecca A. Sexton)



At the end of the page they encourage you to go to What Saith Rome -- which has the purpose of picking apart what's in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rome.html



This one REALLY gets me... about how it's the Roman Catholic Church that is teaching this }15 Secret Tortures" thing!!

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/RC135.html

I copied only the last paragraph or so of the Rebecca Sexton's comments.

Now, you know how important it is for the Roman Catholic Church to teach as doctrine that new "Inspiration" can be added, that the Canon is not closed, and that extra-Biblical sources be accepted. None of this nonsense, above, nor any of the pagan doctrines brought in over the past 1000 years, would ever be possible if Rome held to the Biblical doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

It's a shame that Rome has resorted to such fairytales to mock Jesus. It's even sadder that men fell for it!!

by Rebecca A. Sexton, Former Catholics For Christ




You know... the Church has enough falsehoods said about it that this "15 Secret Tortures of Jesus" thing really needs to be looked into. I very SERIOUSLY doubt that this "15 Secret Tortures of Jesus" thing is an authentic thing, at all.

Interesting, though, that even though there doesn't appear to be any Church teaching on it that the Church is getting blamed for it.

Last edited by Veronica Anne; Jun 18, '04 at 6:21 am. Reason: completion
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  #4  
Old Jun 18, '04, 11:17 am
mtb3 mtb3 is offline
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Default Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica Anne
Just because it's on the Internet doesn't necessarily mean that it's true.

I'm a cradle Catholic and never heard of that, either.

So I made a Google search (www.google.com) on where on the 'Net all the words appeared together.

There's only 5 sites that came up.

http://www.newsflash.org/2004/02/ht/ht004278.htm

http://www.newsflash.org/htindex.htm

http://cvhope.20m.com/15tortures.htm



Okay... here's a Web page that denounces that "15 secret tortures" thing... you have to scroll down to the end of the page, but the comments on it are worth reading.

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-93281/kkelizab.htm



This Web page, also, denounces that "15 secet tortures" thing. My concern that just got raised from reading the comments is that a "Born Again" is saying that this is another falsehood put out by the Catholic Church.

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-93281/kkelizab.htm

At the end of the page they say:

It's a shame that Rome has resorted to such fairytales to mock Jesus. It's even sadder that men fell for it!!

(by Rebecca A. Sexton)


At the end of the page they encourage you to go to What Saith Rome -- which has the purpose of picking apart what's in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rome.html



This one REALLY gets me... about how it's the Roman Catholic Church that is teaching this }15 Secret Tortures" thing!!

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/RC135.html

I copied only the last paragraph or so of the Rebecca Sexton's comments.

Now, you know how important it is for the Roman Catholic Church to teach as doctrine that new "Inspiration" can be added, that the Canon is not closed, and that extra-Biblical sources be accepted. None of this nonsense, above, nor any of the pagan doctrines brought in over the past 1000 years, would ever be possible if Rome held to the Biblical doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

It's a shame that Rome has resorted to such fairytales to mock Jesus. It's even sadder that men fell for it!!

by Rebecca A. Sexton, Former Catholics For Christ



You know... the Church has enough falsehoods said about it that this "15 Secret Tortures of Jesus" thing really needs to be looked into. I very SERIOUSLY doubt that this "15 Secret Tortures of Jesus" thing is an authentic thing, at all.

Interesting, though, that even though there doesn't appear to be any Church teaching on it that the Church is getting blamed for it.
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  #5  
Old Jun 18, '04, 11:20 am
mtb3 mtb3 is offline
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Angry Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

Why does the Catholic Church get blamed for everything?
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  #6  
Old Jun 18, '04, 11:24 am
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Apologia100 Apologia100 is offline
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Default Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

Matthew 10: 24-25 "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master; it is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Be-el'zebul, how much more will they malign those of his household."
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STOP: Abortion; War; Poverty; Euthanasia; Capital Punishment; Racism, Sophistry, Obfuscation, Gerrymandering, Obscenity, Plagarism, Alcoholism, Pederasty, Bad Hair Days and the Jerry Springer Show.
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  #7  
Old Jun 18, '04, 11:28 am
Sir Knight Sir Knight is offline
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Default Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

Apologia100, can you please explain what the scripture passage that you posted has to with the current discussion
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Old Jun 18, '04, 1:09 pm
mikworld mikworld is offline
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Default Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

I think I understand Apologia100's scripture statement.
The Catholic church is the shepherd of Christs people on Earth. Attacking the church is attacking Christ. So if one calls the master of the house (Ecclesial Authority, the Pope) the devil, then one must wonder how much hatred will be directed toward the sheep (The people of the church).

Apologia,
Did I get it just about right?

God Bless,

Justin
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Old Jun 18, '04, 1:35 pm
randall_brown randall_brown is offline
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Default Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

Veronica Anne ~

From your post:

"You know... the Church has enough falsehoods said about it that this "15 Secret Tortures of Jesus" thing really needs to be looked into. I very SERIOUSLY doubt that this "15 Secret Tortures of Jesus" thing is an authentic thing, at all.

Interesting, though, that even though there doesn't appear to be any Church teaching on it that the Church is getting blamed for it."

You've voiced the same kind of feeling I was getting about all of this. I haven't found any of the Church's writings on it as of yet, so this is what makes me doubt it did happen


Thanks
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  #10  
Old Jun 18, '04, 1:38 pm
randall_brown randall_brown is offline
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Question Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikworld
I think I understand Apologia100's scripture statement.
The Catholic church is the shepherd of Christs people on Earth. Attacking the church is attacking Christ. So if one calls the master of the house (Ecclesial Authority, the Pope) the devil, then one must wonder how much hatred will be directed toward the sheep (The people of the church).

Apologia,
Did I get it just about right?

God Bless,

Justin
So Justin and Apologia,
I see what you're getting at. Justin, I think you're right in that it seems to me to be alot of people attacking the church . .

However, do either of you feel that this "15 tortures" are authentic ??
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  #11  
Old Jun 18, '04, 1:39 pm
randall_brown randall_brown is offline
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Default Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Knight
1. I, personally, have never heard of them but that doesn't mean much.

2. They may be considered "secret" because they were not recorded in scripture.

3. I would seek written (not just on the internet) confirmation that this devotion is approved and recommended by His Holiness Clement II. If it turns out to be true, I see nothing wrong with engaging in this devotion and even sharing it with others.
I have tried to do some searching to find vaidated documentation on this.

www.vatican.va

is a great site to look up. But I still haven't found anything.
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  #12  
Old Jun 20, '04, 9:06 pm
mikworld mikworld is offline
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Default Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

randall_brown,
I was actually just interpreting what Apologia said. I really don't think the "15 Secret Tortures" are authentic. However, we do see one or two of them illustrated in Mel Gibsons movie: The Passion of the Christ. I could see a couple of them as being accurate, but the other torture devices are so out there that I am a little bit skeptical to believe.
But I DO have some facts for this forum! WOOHOO!

1. Jesus suffered and died for our sake that we might spend eternity with Him.
2. The scriptures and historical references could give us an idea about what kind of suffereing He underwent, but no matter the details, the results are still the same.
2a. Whether or not Jesus underwent the 15 sufferings, we still have salvation.

Jesus could have told us to meditate on these sufferings. If He underwent them, they have merit. If He didn't undergo the suffereings, then they still have merit, as the suffering He did endure would amount to the specific things mentioned in the list of fifteen and more.Either way we are meditating on the suffering of Our Lord, Jesus Christ, and I don't see a problem with that!
God Bless,

Justin
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  #13  
Old Jun 21, '04, 2:54 am
randall_brown randall_brown is offline
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Thumbs up Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikworld
randall_brown,
I was actually just interpreting what Apologia said. I really don't think the "15 Secret Tortures" are authentic. However, we do see one or two of them illustrated in Mel Gibsons movie: The Passion of the Christ. I could see a couple of them as being accurate, but the other torture devices are so out there that I am a little bit skeptical to believe.
But I DO have some facts for this forum! WOOHOO!

1. Jesus suffered and died for our sake that we might spend eternity with Him.
2. The scriptures and historical references could give us an idea about what kind of suffereing He underwent, but no matter the details, the results are still the same.
2a. Whether or not Jesus underwent the 15 sufferings, we still have salvation.

Jesus could have told us to meditate on these sufferings. If He underwent them, they have merit. If He didn't undergo the suffereings, then they still have merit, as the suffering He did endure would amount to the specific things mentioned in the list of fifteen and more.Either way we are meditating on the suffering of Our Lord, Jesus Christ, and I don't see a problem with that!
God Bless,

Justin
Justin ~

See, now that's how I originally took the "15 secret tortures", too, when my wife first showed them to me. That they were too far out there that they made me skeptical as well.

I REALLY liked the facts you've shared. It brought me back to what's really important.

Excellent Post, Justin. I'm showing all of these to my wife, and hopefully she will understand more.

Thanks
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Vivat Jesu
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  #14  
Old Jun 21, '04, 3:01 am
EddieArent EddieArent is offline
 
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Default Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

I don't know of the validity of these tortures. But those of us who have seen The Passion of The Christ movie, they will probably remember some of these tortures being in the movie. I know, just because it was in the movie doesn't mean it's true, but I'm just adding a side comment.
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Old Jun 21, '04, 3:14 am
agname agname is offline
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Default Re: 15 secret tortures of Jesus ?

I thought Clement II died in 1047?

I know of a St. Mary Magdalen de' Pazzi...a Carmelite...but, she was canonized by Clement IX in 1669...62 years after her death.

I do not believe this to be an authentic devotion.


The only wound oriented devotions that I remember off hand....are the "Prayer To The Shoulder Wound of Jesus" and "Chaplet of the Five Wounds of Jesus."

Last edited by agname; Jun 21, '04 at 3:25 am.
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