Wanting Religious Life for the wrong reasons?

[seremina]

Originally Posted by irisfromohio

Ironically, I so long for consecrated life and have been turned away, feeling separated from what I feel is God's Will. Yet, I do have lingering questions in my heart as well. I was once told that in the past, women were forced into religious life, because they were too ugly to get a husband. I am someone who has always struggled with self esteem and feel that an aesthetically appealing appearance was not one of my gifts. My attempts at romance have been disastrous (to put it mildly). I feel a sense of peace if I see myself living as a bride of Christ and there have been times when I pray on it that I smell roses.

I am left with the confusion: Am I considering religious life just to "hide" my unattractiveness from the public or am I submitting to His Will?

Iris Marie<><

I'm in the same boat as you. Jesus is calling me and has been ever since I was a child. I'm 30 now and rejections are still an issue. I almost feel like Lay orders and Third Orders are there for those that can't get into Religious Life but they do have their noble and Christly purpose. You must be really discouraged. Please ask Jesus to tell you plainly if He wants you Consecrated to Him or to give you peace. Your looks should never be important, even if you lack beauty. Virtues are real beauty, so how about beautifying your heart? I only mean to encourage you and help you, so I hope nothing comes across badly.

[nsper7]

As a preface, I maybe the wrong person to give advice since I am in a similar situation as you are in that I am discerning whether religious life is for me as well (I just got back on Monday from a 6-day visit to the Franciscan Custody of the Holy Land's American monastery in Washington, DC) so please take everything I say with a grain of salt (or maybe a few truckloads).

Originally Posted by DL82

I have recently come to realise just how dull the religious life seems to me. Don't get me wrong, there are some fantastic religious brothers (I'm temporarily living with 12 of them!) who do some amazing work in the world. I just mean it feels dull to me, and I act in a dull way.

First off, what religious order are you staying with? How does it feel dull to you? Might it just mean you need to find a religious order more suited to your skills and interests?

Basically, I think I want religious life for all the wrong reasons - as a single man, only child, and convert, without many close friends, currently taking a PhD with no clear career goals in my late 20's, I guess religious life is quite secure - I know I wouldn't ever have to worry about my finances again, or about where I'd live, or about living alone or dying alone. It's also an excuse for not needing to do anything amazing with my life - I could excuse my failure to make a deep impact on the academic world by saying 'well, I would've changed the face of Catholic education, but 5 years into my magnum opus I had to leave to be provincial bursar', or whatever. As someone with a history of anxiety disorder, I know I often fear the worst, and religious life would be a way of escaping the worst, a way of settling for security, not so much a sacrifice as a trade-off. It's true that I don't sin as much when I'm here, but I also don't even feel that I do as much good as the average married person, and certainly nowhere near as much good as I do when I'm at home and actively involved in the Legion of Mary! I know we're called to throw our lives away for Christ, but this just seems like the wrong kind, the wrong definition of throwing my life away. Am I wrong?

Is security always a bad thing? After all, Jesus told us not to worry about our material needs. Certainly, in a religious order, you are living out that Gospel command/bit of advice. We are also called to fellowship, so wanting to not have to worry about living/dying alone is not necessarily a bad thing either.

Is Jesus calling you to make a 'deep impact' on the academic world? Perhaps He is calling you to make an impact on whatever religious order you join? I too suffer from anxiety disorder (OCD/Scrupulosity) and it is a tough issue to deal with. God knows what we need and perhaps you need stability and calm in the way you serve God and His Church. Of course, perhaps God is going to call you out of your 'comfort zone', but remember in the end God wants us to be at peace with ourselves and with Him and joyful (not always happy...there is a difference). One other thing, we are not called to 'throw away our lives' for Him, but to serve and follow Him. For some, might that lead to martyrdom or a greater degree of self-denial? Yes, but that is certainly not 'throwing away our lives'.

Religious life shouldn't be that way, and Christian life shouldn't be that way. It's not about security, but about taking a risk. I feel excited by the prospect of married life, I even feel excited about the thought of single life in the world, if it allows me to dedicate myself completely to God's work. I've started thinking recently about the life of St Benedict Joseph Labre, the wandering pilgrim saint, and the thought of living a life of radical adventure like that, it seems like a genuinely heroic thing to do. Even as a married man or a permanent Deacon living in a local community, I could still be heroic in giving what I can to those around me, being a faithful witness to my kids.

In your ideal, what should religious, and Christian, life be? Sometimes risks are necessary and important (whether in secular or spiritual terms), but seeking risks just for the sake of seeking risks seems foolhardy, but that's just me. Perhaps, if you feel God is calling you to 'single life in the world', you might consider joining a religious order/society of apostolic life that focuses on an active apostolate--not all orders/societies are contemplative and cloistered. You could also join a Third/Secular Order or a group like Opus Dei which specializes in helping the laity live out the Faith in a good, even 'heroic', way. Again, what are your skills and your interests?

In terms of being heroic, have you read how the Church defines being 'heroic in virtue'? Perhaps you should the Catholic Encyclopedia article on it at least(HEROIC VIRTUE). We sometimes can get a skewed view on things because of our culture (i.e. how Hollywood defines 'heroic' and such). You are right about all the things you have said: you can show heroic virtue as a married Deacon or single lay person or whatever, but you can also be heroic as a religious brother or Priest.

At the same time, this morning's reading at Morning Prayer was all about the world being subjected to futility in hope of transformation. Maybe I need to accept that, in reality, I probably could have a great career, a happy marriage, an important role building up the Church locally and through my writing, but that at the end of the day it would still be futile unless the One who subjected the world to futility in hope blesses it. In that case, I may as well accept the futility any vocation, and the objective superiority of living the religious life under the evangelical counsels. It would be the sacrifice of not even allowing myself the excitement of finding out whether I could make a go of life in the world, of just accepting that futility in love and hope, the hope that God can bring good out of it.

Don't get so maudlin and morose about these things. Again, it may just be you need to find a religious order that is more 'exciting' and to your tastes. There are numerous religious orders in the Catholic Church and each has a unique charism and way of life. It is not a one size fits all sort of thing. Again, what are your skills and interests?

[nsper7]

The one thing that worries me is that I don't want to waste more of my life. I'm 27 now, and have another year to go of my PhD. I don't want to find myself, 5 years on, about to get married, on the way to academic tenure and a promising career, finally realising that, now that I have something to sacrifice, God wants me to sacrifice it and go into religious life. I know that my own anxious mind would bring that thought up and dash all my hopes down if I ever did find myself in that position again (I was engaged and in a promising career 3 years ago, prior to my confirmation, and wrecked it because I was afraid that God was asking me to give it all up to become a religious, and tried to run away from that call), though I don't know if that anxiety would be from God, it certainly wasn't from Him the first time.

Yes, I know, tell a Spiritual Director - believe me, I will - all the same, I just wondered if anyone else had had a similar experience? Is it always wrong to enter religious life for these reasons? I know, historically, a lot of the people who entered monasteries in the Middle Ages had such an approach, it wasn't a bad lifestyle, and nobody needed to know. Maybe the 'vocations crisis' is in part due to people always examining their motives on such a deep level. Maybe it was easier for the Church to get an adequate supply of adequate priests - true saints have always been few and far between - when people just accepted that it was as well to accept the clerical state as their lot in life?

Yes, talk to a Spiritual Director. There should be plenty of good Brothers and Fathers where you are living in the Salesian monastery. That is an excellent idea. Good luck with your decisions.

[irisfromohio]

Originally Posted by seremina

I'm in the same boat as you. Jesus is calling me and has been ever since I was a child. I'm 30 now and rejections are still an issue. I almost feel like Lay orders and Third Orders are there for those that can't get into Religious Life but they do have their noble and Christly purpose. You must be really discouraged. Please ask Jesus to tell you plainly if He wants you Consecrated to Him or to give you peace. Your looks should never be important, even if you lack beauty. Virtues are real beauty, so how about beautifying your heart? I only mean to encourage you and help you, so I hope nothing comes across badly.

You are encouraging, seremina, and thank you for the sweetness. I realize that the ideal is the beauty within. And, we all strive to make the world a better place, in spite of our short comings. But, self love is another one of my life's tough nuts to crack. Tis better to function and try to transcend one's corporal being.... forget about the body and focus on Him, I say

[JReducation]

Originally Posted by seremina

I'm in the same boat as you. Jesus is calling me and has been ever since I was a child. I'm 30 now and rejections are still an issue. I almost feel like Lay orders and Third Orders are there for those that can't get into Religious Life but they do have their noble and Christly purpose. .

Whoah! Secular Orders are not for people who cannot enter a religious order. Secular Orders are part of religious families. They are a calling of their own. The Church recognizes them as a separate calling from the conventual life. But they are called to live the evangelical councils, the Gospel and the rule of their founder. They have a ministry in the Church, their own spirituality, their own canonical superiors, fraternities and some even live in common community houses. Some members are celibate. Some are deacons, priests, bishops and even popes. John XXIII was a Secular Franciscan. I believe that John Paul II was a Carmelite. St. Pius X was also a Secular Franciscan.

Every secular order falls under the authority of the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. They are considered Institutes of Consecrated Life and public associations of the faithful. Their profession is a liturgical action that is binding until death under the pain of serious sin if they violate it. The larger Secular Orders: Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites and Oblates, each have a superior general in Rome who answers to the Holy Father like any other order. Many of these orders have given birth to hundreds of congregations.

My own congreation was founded by four Secular Franciscans who wanted to live the conventual life following the rule of St. Francis for the Brothers and Sisters of Penance. The TOR friars who run Franciscan University are part of the Third Order. Hence their initials after their name. But they are real friars. The Friars on EWTN are part of the Third Order of St. Francis. But they are real friars. Some third order members are friars, sisters, diocesan clerics or married men and women. But they all follow the same rule of life and form one family. This is true of the Dominicans, Carmelites and Benedictines.

Be careful. To be a member of a Third Order you must have a calling to that life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

PS. Our OSF stands for Brothers of Life of the Order of St. Francis. We are friars, but we were founded by Secular Franciscans and Capuchin Friars who joined to start a new order.

[DL82]

OK, talked to a spiritual director. He basically said God wants me to be free, and in the absence of any real desire or sense of a call, I should do what gives me joy in the Lord. For me, that means married life, the Legion of Mary, my academic work, and maybe the permanent Diaconate a long way down the line. I spoke to the rector of the Salesian house too, he basically said the same thing. Discernment over (for now). Far from appearing a failure in the eyes of the girl I gave up to start this discernment, she seems to think me the better man for admitting my mistakes. All of these things will bring sacrifice, but I feel like God is giving, has given, will give me the grace to accept it joyfully

Man, God is good! I can see the wisdom in this too. It just seems like there's so much to be done in the place I'm in. I can't discern in the abstract. I can't go straight from "the Church needs priests" to "I should be one". The Church, and the Lord, needs people to live faithful lives of witness to Him.

I feel like I can laugh, smile, joke, make the effort to do all the extra academic projects I keep telling myself I'll do, take care of my health, look women in the eye without fear, sing the songs that I sing to entertain, pray with sincerity, go to adoration without fear (or rather, with the right kind of fear), and just generally be myself again! Deo gratias!

If God still wants to call me back to the religious life, He'll have to show me pretty clearly. I'm still open, but won't try to pre-empt Him. I'm happy to let God be God. In all of this, I've done as my S.D. said, and have avoided (as far as possible) the modernist assumption that theology is therapy. All the same, there are some things in the Church's past that aren't worth returning to just because they existed in the past - overflowing ranks of mediocre and miserable religious are one of them! Thank you to all those who showed me that saying 'no' to the religious life doesn't necessarily mean saying 'no' to God. I finally feel free to say 'yes' to Him in a way that is joyful and meaningful.

Thank you all for your advice and prayers.

[DL82]

Originally Posted by Pro Domina

I just want to leave something clear to you. If have a vocation to something ( religious or married, etc) and do something else, some saints say that with great difficulty you will save yourself. Others say it is IMPOSSIBLE.

While this is true, I think you also need to say that the Sacraments accomplish what they signify.

To put it another way, the only way you could really do other than your vocation would be to deliberately run away, i.e. to know for sure you're supposed to marry, and run away to a monastery the night before your wedding, or to have a shotgun wedding the night before you were due to be ordained. If you do that, you wouldn't truly be free. As my spiritual director explained (and had to drill into me), in order to truly accept any vocation, you need to be truly free.

I think it was the fear of this kind of teaching that made me so worried about my vocation. It almost makes discernment feel like a game of Deal or No Deal where you have to pick the right box or you lose. For someone like me who can be over-scrupulous, if you are open to following God's call, and you are in a state of grace, you are following God's call.

For example, if you get married before you are really committed to your faith, and later come (back) to the Church, you don't need to worry that you weren't called to marriage in the first place. By virtue of the sacrament, you have the vocation to marriage.

[irisfromohio]

Originally Posted by DL82

For example, if you get married before you are really committed to your faith, and later come (back) to the Church, you don't need to worry that you weren't called to marriage in the first place. By virtue of the sacrament, you have the vocation to marriage.

Wrong answer? I married a non Catholic in a Catholic ceremony. While I was living a married vocation, I didn't HAVE a married vocation. I married for several wrong reasons and have suffered and am still suffering for that error in judgement. In fact, all of my attempts at romance were disasters, I didn't think I was "good enough" for religious life (I still wonder sometimes), yet I still tried for several years to find a mate. What it came down to for me was that for me to even be in a relationship with a man, he would have to be perfect. The only Perfect Man to live on earth is Jesus. I surmised that that fact alone made my decision for me.

[JReducation]

Originally Posted by irisfromohio

Wrong answer? I married a non Catholic in a Catholic ceremony. While I was living a married vocation, I didn't HAVE a married vocation. I married for several wrong reasons and have suffered and am still suffering for that error in judgement. In fact, all of my attempts at romance were disasters, I didn't think I was "good enough" for religious life (I still wonder sometimes), yet I still tried for several years to find a mate. What it came down to for me was that for me to even be in a relationship with a man, he would have to be perfect. The only Perfect Man to live on earth is Jesus. I surmised that that fact alone made my decision for me.

As a religious myself, I would encourage caution here. The best religious (men and women) are those who would make the best spouses and the best parents. Usually, those people who are not marriage material are not material for religious life either. They tend to have problems with intimacy. Intimacy is the stuff that community life is made of. People must learn to live in intimate spiritual and psychological relationship with each other, if the community is to be well integrated and healthy. In our own community we do not accept anyone whom we suspect would not be a good husband and father. He will probabl not be a good brother to the other brothers either. You must have the ability to become one with others and the nurturing skills of a good parent to be a good religious.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

[seremina]

Originally Posted by irisfromohio

You are encouraging, seremina, and thank you for the sweetness. I realize that the ideal is the beauty within. And, we all strive to make the world a better place, in spite of our short comings. But, self love is another one of my life's tough nuts to crack. Tis better to function and try to transcend one's corporal being.... forget about the body and focus on Him, I say

You're very welcome, Sr. Iris. (I hope I got that right. I'm such a blunderbuss with names!)

[seremina]

Originally Posted by JReducation

Whoah! Secular Orders are not for people who cannot enter a religious order. Secular Orders are part of religious families. They are a calling of their own. The Church recognizes them as a separate calling from the conventual life. But they are called to live the evangelical councils, the Gospel and the rule of their founder. They have a ministry in the Church, their own spirituality, their own canonical superiors, fraternities and some even live in common community houses. Some members are celibate. Some are deacons, priests, bishops and even popes. John XXIII was a Secular Franciscan. I believe that John Paul II was a Carmelite. St. Pius X was also a Secular Franciscan.

Every secular order falls under the authority of the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. They are considered Institutes of Consecrated Life and public associations of the faithful. Their profession is a liturgical action that is binding until death under the pain of serious sin if they violate it. The larger Secular Orders: Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites and Oblates, each have a superior general in Rome who answers to the Holy Father like any other order. Many of these orders have given birth to hundreds of congregations.

My own congreation was founded by four Secular Franciscans who wanted to live the conventual life following the rule of St. Francis for the Brothers and Sisters of Penance. The TOR friars who run Franciscan University are part of the Third Order. Hence their initials after their name. But they are real friars. The Friars on EWTN are part of the Third Order of St. Francis. But they are real friars. Some third order members are friars, sisters, diocesan clerics or married men and women. But they all follow the same rule of life and form one family. This is true of the Dominicans, Carmelites and Benedictines.

Be careful. To be a member of a Third Order you must have a calling to that life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

PS. Our OSF stands for Brothers of Life of the Order of St. Francis. We are friars, but we were founded by Secular Franciscans and Capuchin Friars who joined to start a new order.

With all respect, Brother, I said "I almost feel like". Its true I used to think that's what their secondary purpose was, but I have been getting gentle explanations why they don't have that purpose. Still, I guess the Brothers and Sisters of Penance of St. Francis are being overly kind. They accepted me because I couldn't get into Religious Life no matter what I did. I certainly hope they're not wrong to do so, and their kindness has healed me greatly.

You said that Lay/3rd Orders require a calling in order to enter them, am I right? If so... then am I wrong to be in any order at all? I mean, geez... it seems I only belong to the nonexistent order of Misfits. Heh.

[JReducation]

Originally Posted by seremina

With all respect, Brother, I said "I almost feel like". Its true I used to think that's what their secondary purpose was, but I have been getting gentle explanations why they don't have that purpose. Still, I guess the Brothers and Sisters of Penance of St. Francis are being overly kind. They accepted me because I couldn't get into Religious Life no matter what I did. I certainly hope they're not wrong to do so, and their kindness has healed me greatly.

You said that Lay/3rd Orders require a calling in order to enter them, am I right? If so... then am I wrong to be in any order at all? I mean, geez... it seems I only belong to the nonexistent order of Misfits. Heh.

No. If you are accepted to make profession, then you will know that you were called by God to share the joys and sufferings of our Franciscan family as one of us. So stay the course and pray to the Immaculate Conception, patroness of the Franciscan Order and to our holy Father St. Francis for the grace of perseverence until death. If it is our Lord's wish that you serve him as a Franciscan among the Brothers and Sisters of Penance, they will not deny you their spiritual help. I too will pray for you, especially tonight and tomorrow on the solemnity of our holy Father Francis. Please pray for me.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

[CatholicFireman]

DL82

Forgive me if this was asked already but I haven't read all the posts. Have you thought of another order? Maybe one more involved with people? Many people visit a lot of orders until they find one that fits. Good luck and God Bless.

[JReducation]

Originally Posted by CatholicFireman

DL82

Forgive me if this was asked already but I haven't read all the posts. Have you thought of another order? Maybe one more involved with people? Many people visit a lot of orders until they find one that fits. Good luck and God Bless.

I thought he was a Salesian or am I wrong? Salesians are a Congregation of Apostolic Life. They are much more involved in the secular world than monks and friars.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

[CatholicFireman]

I don't know. I'm nodding off at the computer tonight so I'm being lazy and not reading all the posts.

If that's true then I don't have any suggestions except the original one that maybe he needs an order that fits.

To Jesus through Mary,

CF