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  #61  
Old Sep 27, '09, 7:55 am
pathia pathia is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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Originally Posted by Arwen037 View Post
Pathia, the only thing you are thinking about is yourself, so don't be too quick to judge me for wanting to keep the money I earn. You don't care about the effects on other people. All you want is for someone else to pay your medical bills.
No, there's a more simple answer.

I don't want to die.

The current medical system is killing me, slowly, but it is killing me. I pay roughly $18,000 for my medical issues a year, the bankruptcy is for those beyond that, does that sound like I 'don't want to pay them'? I'm perfectly willing to continue paying 15,000-18,000 a year until the day I die, however they're never going to get blood from a stone when they keep trying to demand 2x my salary a year.

The only plan the free market will sell me is a $800 a month, with a $10,000 deductible. That's yet again about $18,000 before I even get any benefits. There is no solution for me that the free market could EVER provide. Most of this comes because of drugs, which BOTH the GOP and Obama have already sold out on.
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  #62  
Old Sep 27, '09, 8:04 am
pathia pathia is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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Originally Posted by fultonfish View Post
I apologize for being so "heavy handed", but there are all kinds of existing private sector approaches for treatment of rare diseases.

I have seen major pharmaceutical firms bend over backwards to make hand made bench quantity special drugs for rare cases. And they didn't even bother to charge for them because they are so expensive there is no way anyone could afford them. They even compete with one another to supply rare drugs. And they don't charge for them.
I make too much to apply to the charities involved in these. As stated many times, I'm stuck in a void in the middle class. Too rich to get any sort of assistance, too poor to self-pay my own costs. I also appreciate the link, but they don't have any programs for the drugs I need and they don't have any comparable equivalents either.
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  #63  
Old Sep 27, '09, 11:29 am
fultonfish fultonfish is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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Originally Posted by pathia View Post
I make too much to apply to the charities involved in these. As stated many times, I'm stuck in a void in the middle class. Too rich to get any sort of assistance, too poor to self-pay my own costs. I also appreciate the link, but they don't have any programs for the drugs I need and they don't have any comparable equivalents either.
[Can you post the names of the drugs that you need?]
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  #64  
Old Sep 27, '09, 11:48 am
royal archer royal archer is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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So you prefer the rationing to be entirely monetary based?
I prefer to do the rationing of my property within my own family. You are free to ration your time and property as you see fit.
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  #65  
Old Sep 27, '09, 11:55 am
pathia pathia is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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Originally Posted by fultonfish View Post
[Can you post the names of the drugs that you need?]
Lupron and Modafinil tend to be the most expensive and difficult to get

It is hard to do 'rationing' when what you need to keep from DYING is more than you make all yeat
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  #66  
Old Sep 27, '09, 11:56 am
royal archer royal archer is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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Originally Posted by pathia View Post
No, there's a more simple answer.

I don't want to die. .
None of us want to die. Sometimes there is more to life than avoiding death. part of my life is the time I put into my work. That portion of my life is converted to cash through the employment process. When you try to take my cash or that of any other person you are taking our lives.

I willingly give up a portion of my life to help others and some of that money entering the system likely helps you indirectly but that has to be voluntary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pathia View Post
The current medical system is killing me, slowly, but it is killing me. I pay roughly $18,000 for my medical issues a year, the bankruptcy is for those beyond that, does that sound like I 'don't want to pay them'? I'm perfectly willing to continue paying 15,000-18,000 a year until the day I die, however they're never going to get blood from a stone when they keep trying to demand 2x my salary a year.

The only plan the free market will sell me is a $800 a month, with a $10,000 deductible. That's yet again about $18,000 before I even get any benefits. There is no solution for me that the free market could EVER provide. Most of this comes because of drugs, which BOTH the GOP and Obama have already sold out on.
The system is not killing you. Your sickness is killing you. Keep in mind how much more those medical services would cost if not for charity.
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  #67  
Old Sep 27, '09, 12:18 pm
pathia pathia is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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Originally Posted by royal archer View Post
None of us want to die. Sometimes there is more to life than avoiding death. part of my life is the time I put into my work. That portion of my life is converted to cash through the employment process. When you try to take my cash or that of any other person you are taking our lives.

I willingly give up a portion of my life to help others and some of that money entering the system likely helps you indirectly but that has to be voluntary.



The system is not killing you. Your sickness is killing you. Keep in mind how much more those medical services would cost if not for charity.
Avoiding death is all I have. I live in constant unending unmedicable pain. Sometimes I think the only reason I have survived this long is spite.

What charity? I make too much, I have never received a dime. I file bankruptcies, that is not charity.
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  #68  
Old Sep 27, '09, 12:24 pm
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Shoshana Shoshana is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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Avoiding death is all I have. I live in constant unending unmedicable pain. Sometimes I think the only reason I have survived this long is spite.

What charity? I make too much, I have never received a dime. I file bankruptcies, that is not charity.
I think this argument is not going anywhere. I believe that EACH person should be given medical care, no matter what. The rich as well as the poor, as well as the very poor! Even the Vatican says this for heaven's sake.
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  #69  
Old Sep 27, '09, 2:58 pm
Arwen037 Arwen037 is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

Yes, but the Vatican thinks that WE should do this. I believe in helping people, but it is my right to decide how much help I can and will give.
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  #70  
Old Sep 27, '09, 4:42 pm
aspawloski4th aspawloski4th is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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Originally Posted by Arwen037 View Post
Yes, but the Vatican thinks that WE should do this. I believe in helping people, but it is my right to decide how much help I can and will give.
Did you hear or read the second reading today at Mass from the Letter of St James? He was speaking to you!
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  #71  
Old Sep 27, '09, 4:44 pm
aspawloski4th aspawloski4th is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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Originally Posted by royal archer View Post
I prefer to do the rationing of my property within my own family. You are free to ration your time and property as you see fit.
And you will be Judged by the man upstairs in what way you do it. With your attitiude I'd be shaking in my boots if I heard the second reading at Mass today.
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  #72  
Old Sep 27, '09, 4:49 pm
aspawloski4th aspawloski4th is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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Originally Posted by royal archer View Post
None of us want to die. Sometimes there is more to life than avoiding death. part of my life is the time I put into my work. That portion of my life is converted to cash through the employment process. When you try to take my cash or that of any other person you are taking our lives.

I willingly give up a portion of my life to help others and some of that money entering the system likely helps you indirectly but that has to be voluntary.



The system is not killing you. Your sickness is killing you. Keep in mind how much more those medical services would cost if not for charity.
Just mere excuses. Yes God Pathia did die prematurely, but hey it was my money!. God- I don't care , you didn't do anyuthing to help the likes of her. By the way You "earned " that money from in back of a desk, you did nothing in the way of physical labor to earn that money while telling others they should be happy to be doing physical labor. What do you have to say for your self? Iv'e gotta hear this one!
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  #73  
Old Sep 27, '09, 5:34 pm
Arwen037 Arwen037 is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

You earn by providing a desired service or good. And no one hear is saying we shouldn't help, we're saying the government shouldn't FORCE us to help.

And as to the reading:
I do not employ anyone, so I cannot hold back wages through fraud, I'm not rich, I'm not hording treasure, I haven't killed the righteous man. I just support myself. So not quite sure how that is supposed to apply to me. Pathia just wants the government to hold back my wages to pay for those who can't pay for themselves.
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  #74  
Old Sep 27, '09, 5:53 pm
royal archer royal archer is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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Originally Posted by Shoshana View Post
I think this argument is not going anywhere. I believe that EACH person should be given medical care, no matter what. The rich as well as the poor, as well as the very poor! Even the Vatican says this for heaven's sake.
When speaking in general terms yes. everyone should get free health care, the grass should be green, the sky should be sunny, people should live in harmony, etc. Does the vatican endorse the use of force to take from one person to give to another? This latter aspect is the crux of the discussion. Does the end always justify the means? The Chatechism has also been very clearly against socialism and only endorses regulations which level the playing field.


Part 3, Section 2, Chapter 2, Article 7, SubSection 3

2425 The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with "communism" or "socialism." She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of "capitalism," individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor. 207 Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for "there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market." 208 Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.
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  #75  
Old Sep 27, '09, 5:55 pm
royal archer royal archer is offline
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Default Re: change of heart on socialized medicine

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And you will be Judged by the man upstairs in what way you do it. With your attitiude I'd be shaking in my boots if I heard the second reading at Mass today.
You are very quick to judge that which you know nothing about.
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