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  #1  
Old Oct 2, '09, 8:22 pm
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Jason_1977 Jason_1977 is offline
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Default Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

SO, THIS pertains to the EUCHARIST. Correct me if I'm wrong. No opinions, no, I thinks.......facts.......

MY understanding of the Body & Blood (Bread & Wine) were that they were 2 seperate things, pure items unto themselves. The bread is the Body, the Wine is the Blood. (HERE IS, STAY WITH ME...) IF a priest dips his bread in the wine, isn't he mixing the host with the blood? SO, if the host is the host, and now it's mixed with wine, it is no longer a pure item by itself. It ceases to be the host at that point. right? SO, if the host is no longer the host after dipped in the wine, then is not the wine no longer the the blood? SO, I get handed a pure host & tainted wine? PRIESTS & MONKS did this on my retreat at Mepkin Abbey in Monck's Corner, South Carolina this week. 1/3 of these monks are retired priests. several of them DIP their host in the wine. I have been taught that is a NO-NO!!!! PLEASE, if I'm wrong, let me know, is there anything that governs the mixing of host & wine? THANKS!!! God bless!!!
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  #2  
Old Oct 2, '09, 8:31 pm
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Brendan Brendan is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_1977 View Post
SO, THIS pertains to the EUCHARIST. Correct me if I'm wrong. No opinions, no, I thinks.......facts.......

MY understanding of the Body & Blood (Bread & Wine) were that they were 2 seperate things, pure items unto themselves. The bread is the Body, the Wine is the Blood. (HERE IS, STAY WITH ME...) IF a priest dips his bread in the wine, isn't he mixing the host with the blood? SO, if the host is the host, and now it's mixed with wine, it is no longer a pure item by itself. It ceases to be the host at that point. right? SO, if the host is no longer the host after dipped in the wine, then is not the wine no longer the the blood? SO, I get handed a pure host & tainted wine? PRIESTS & MONKS did this on my retreat at Mepkin Abbey in Monck's Corner, South Carolina this week. 1/3 of these monks are retired priests. several of them DIP their host in the wine. I have been taught that is a NO-NO!!!! PLEASE, if I'm wrong, let me know, is there anything that governs the mixing of host & wine? THANKS!!! God bless!!!
SELF Intinction by the laity is wrong.

A priest or deacon may do that and present it to the faithful. In some circumstances, it is even recommended.

As far as a priest doing that in their personal reception of the Eucharist, I'm not too sure if their is something specifically preventing that in the GIRM, especially for concelebrants.

The items are still 'pure' because they the same substance, the full and complete Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. The only real difference between the two is how they appear to our human senses.

FYI, having the two species mixed is how it is commonly done in the Eastern Churches, so there is nothing theologically wrong with it at all.
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  #3  
Old Oct 2, '09, 8:32 pm
diggerdomer diggerdomer is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_1977 View Post
SO, THIS pertains to the EUCHARIST. Correct me if I'm wrong. No opinions, no, I thinks.......facts.......

MY understanding of the Body & Blood (Bread & Wine) were that they were 2 seperate things, pure items unto themselves. The bread is the Body, the Wine is the Blood. (HERE IS, STAY WITH ME...) IF a priest dips his bread in the wine, isn't he mixing the host with the blood? SO, if the host is the host, and now it's mixed with wine, it is no longer a pure item by itself. It ceases to be the host at that point. right? SO, if the host is no longer the host after dipped in the wine, then is not the wine no longer the the blood? SO, I get handed a pure host & tainted wine? PRIESTS & MONKS did this on my retreat at Mepkin Abbey in Monck's Corner, South Carolina this week. 1/3 of these monks are retired priests. several of them DIP their host in the wine. I have been taught that is a NO-NO!!!! PLEASE, if I'm wrong, let me know, is there anything that governs the mixing of host & wine? THANKS!!! God bless!!!
Receiving communion by intinction is an option, though not the norm in the U.S. If it's practiced, the communicant should not be the one to intinct (i.e. the minister should intinct the bread/host and that should be received by the communicant).

I really don't understand what you're going on about the mixing of the host/wine. Can you rephrase your concern a little, um, more coherently? Thanks.
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  #4  
Old Oct 2, '09, 8:37 pm
twf twf is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

The Church teaches that the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus is FULLY present under BOTH forms (the bread and the wine). The two distinct elements are used to symbolically represent the body and blood of Christ and the sacrificial separation of his body and blood on the cross. On the altar, however, the RISEN Christ is present. Our Lord's body and blood can no longer be separated - He is no longer dead but alive; thus the Church teaches that even the smallest particle of the host or the smallest drop of the consecated wine is in fact the whole BODY, BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY of Jesus Christ. When you present yourself for Holy Communion, you are not simply receiving a 'part' of Jesus, but Jesus himself! It is for this very reason that the Church allows the laity to receive under only the form of bread (the Host). In my diocese, it is very rare for the chalice to be distributed at all.

In Jesus, Mary, and Joseph,

Tyler
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  #5  
Old Oct 2, '09, 8:49 pm
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HyeDetroit HyeDetroit is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

I go to an Eastern Catholic Church and the priest does intiction everytime. I remember the first time I went to a Latin Rite, I was suprised to recieve only the body, because I was young and so used to both at the same time. (And we recieve on the tongue at my Church and when I went to the Latin one I recieved by hand)
Luckily, I just looked at the people in front of me
-
Anyway, back to your question,
If it were a no-no then the Church would not do it. After 2000 years I'm sure somebody would have thought about it.
But how could you make 2 things that are the purest things on Earth into something impure?
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  #6  
Old Oct 2, '09, 9:07 pm
5Loaves 5Loaves is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_1977 View Post
SO, I get handed a pure host & tainted wine?
If you were handed the Host after intinction that was incorrect. It should only be received in the mouth.

GIRM 287. If Communion from the chalice is carried out by intinction... The priest takes a host, dips it partly into the chalice and, showing it, says, Corpus et Sanguis Christi (The Body and Blood of Christ). The communicant responds, Amen, receives the Sacrament in the mouth from the priest, and then withdraws.
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  #7  
Old Oct 2, '09, 9:39 pm
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Jason_1977 Jason_1977 is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

Quote:
Originally Posted by twf View Post
The Church teaches that the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus is FULLY present under BOTH forms (the bread and the wine). The two distinct elements are used to symbolically represent the body and blood of Christ and the sacrificial separation of his body and blood on the cross. On the altar, however, the RISEN Christ is present. Our Lord's body and blood can no longer be separated - He is no longer dead but alive; thus the Church teaches that even the smallest particle of the host or the smallest drop of the consecated wine is in fact the whole BODY, BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY of Jesus Christ. When you present yourself for Holy Communion, you are not simply receiving a 'part' of Jesus, but Jesus himself! It is for this very reason that the Church allows the laity to receive under only the form of bread (the Host). In my diocese, it is very rare for the chalice to be distributed at all.

In Jesus, Mary, and Joseph,

Tyler
It is quite a common thing to get the chalice in Charleston, SC. I ask this because when I was younger, I had observed people in another church dipping their pita bread in the wine. I went to a cathedral christmas mass & I was going to dip because among the Harking the herald angels a singin, and silent nights, the sniffling between carols was deafening, LOL....so I elected to DIP mine, but I didnt see anything wrong with it at the time. I usually did it when there was barely any wine at my other church from my childhood, but the deacon or lay person at this service wouldnt let me combine the host with the wine, in fact, he barked at me & said, YOU CONSUME THAT HOST NOW!!! If he wasnt wearing a robe, SO HELP ME....LOL!!!!!! So, after the service, I asked him what the big deal was, & he said, the bread is pure, the wine is pure, if you dip the wine, the host is no longer a pure item before consumption. It is tainted before it touches the mouth....SO....I'm asking the question....what is the big deal, am I wrong in thinking, maybe he's right?
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  #8  
Old Oct 2, '09, 9:44 pm
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GrahamAPhone GrahamAPhone is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

In the early days of the church, they actually experimented with different ways of distributing the Eucharist. Like they would pass it around, or they even tried just putting the host into the 'wine' and distributing it with a spoon, its just the way Tradition developed that it is received separately in the Latin Rite.
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  #9  
Old Oct 2, '09, 10:18 pm
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KarenElissa KarenElissa is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_1977 View Post
It is quite a common thing to get the chalice in Charleston, SC. I ask this because when I was younger, I had observed people in another church dipping their pita bread in the wine. I went to a cathedral christmas mass & I was going to dip because among the Harking the herald angels a singin, and silent nights, the sniffling between carols was deafening, LOL....so I elected to DIP mine, but I didnt see anything wrong with it at the time. I usually did it when there was barely any wine at my other church from my childhood, but the deacon or lay person at this service wouldnt let me combine the host with the wine, in fact, he barked at me & said, YOU CONSUME THAT HOST NOW!!! If he wasnt wearing a robe, SO HELP ME....LOL!!!!!! So, after the service, I asked him what the big deal was, & he said, the bread is pure, the wine is pure, if you dip the wine, the host is no longer a pure item before consumption. It is tainted before it touches the mouth....SO....I'm asking the question....what is the big deal, am I wrong in thinking, maybe he's right?
First, it is most certainly not bread and wine, the correct terminology would be Body and Blood of Christ, Holy Communion, Host and Cup, or Eucharist.

That said, the actions of the person was correct, although the explanation a bit off. Intinction, the dipping of the Host in the Cup, is allowed in the Catholic Church, but it MUST be done by the priest or deacon, not by a lay person. We RECEIVE Holy Communion, never take, and dipping would essentially be taking. To receive by intinction, the priest would take the Host, dip it in the Cup, say "The Body and Blood of Christ" and place it on your tongue.

Also a note, not allowing the Body and Blood of Christ to mix would make no sense as the priest does this at ever Mass. He takes a small piece of the Host and places it into the main Chalice while praying quietly "May this mingling of the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ bring eternal life to us who receive it."
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  #10  
Old Oct 2, '09, 10:21 pm
diggerdomer diggerdomer is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

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Originally Posted by KarenElissa View Post
First, it is most certainly not bread and wine, the correct terminology would be Body and Blood of Christ, Holy Communion, Host and Cup, or Eucharist.

That said, the actions of the person was correct, although the explanation a bit off. Intinction, the dipping of the Host in the Cup, is allowed in the Catholic Church, but it MUST be done by the priest or deacon, not by a lay person. We RECEIVE Holy Communion, never take, and dipping would essentially be taking. To receive by intinction, the priest would take the Host, dip it in the Cup, say "The Body and Blood of Christ" and place it on your tongue.

Also a note, not allowing the Body and Blood of Christ to mix would make no sense as the priest does this at ever Mass. He takes a small piece of the Host and places it into the main Chalice while praying quietly "May this mingling of the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ bring eternal life to us who receive it."
It wouldn't need to be done by a priest or deacon. If intinction were allowed, there are provisions that an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion, a lay person, could perform this role.
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  #11  
Old Oct 3, '09, 2:38 am
paperwight paperwight is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

[quote=Jason_1977;5773529]It is quite a common thing to get the chalice in Charleston, SC. I ask this because when I was younger, I had observed people in another church dipping their pita bread in the wine. /QUOTE]

Was this at Catholic Mass?

I have to ask, are you actually Catholic?
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  #12  
Old Oct 3, '09, 5:17 am
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_1977 View Post
SO, THIS pertains to the EUCHARIST. Correct me if I'm wrong. No opinions, no, I thinks.......facts.......

MY understanding of the Body & Blood (Bread & Wine) were that they were 2 seperate things, pure items unto themselves. The bread is the Body, the Wine is the Blood. (HERE IS, STAY WITH ME...) IF a priest dips his bread in the wine, isn't he mixing the host with the blood? SO, if the host is the host, and now it's mixed with wine, it is no longer a pure item by itself. It ceases to be the host at that point. right? SO, if the host is no longer the host after dipped in the wine, then is not the wine no longer the the blood? SO, I get handed a pure host & tainted wine? PRIESTS & MONKS did this on my retreat at Mepkin Abbey in Monck's Corner, South Carolina this week. 1/3 of these monks are retired priests. several of them DIP their host in the wine. I have been taught that is a NO-NO!!!! PLEASE, if I'm wrong, let me know, is there anything that governs the mixing of host & wine? THANKS!!! God bless!!!
What you are referring to is called "Intinction". Dipping the Host into the Blood of Christ before receiving it in Holy Communion. What you may not have noticed is that after the Consecration, when the priest fractions or breaks the Host he actually places a very small piece of the Host into the Chalice of the Blood of Christ. The meaning of this is that Christ died on the cross by His blood being separated from His body. This action re-unites His Body and Blood, mystically symbolizing the resurrection. When a person receives either the Body of Christ, the Host or the Blood of Christ, the contents of the chalice, they receive the whole Christ, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.
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  #13  
Old Oct 3, '09, 7:30 am
annie678 annie678 is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

...after the Consecration, when the priest fractions or breaks the Host he actually places a very small piece of the Host into the Chalice of the Blood of Christ...This action re-unites His Body and Blood, mystically symbolizing the resurrection. [/quote]


Thank you for that explanation - I have frequently wondered about the meaning behind this action.
Annie
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  #14  
Old Oct 3, '09, 7:43 am
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Jason_1977 Jason_1977 is offline
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Cool Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

[quote=paperwight;5773981]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_1977 View Post
It is quite a common thing to get the chalice in Charleston, SC. I ask this because when I was younger, I had observed people in another church dipping their pita bread in the wine. /QUOTE]

Was this at Catholic Mass?

I have to ask, are you actually Catholic?
YES< this was at a Catholic Mass, I was at Mepkin Abbey. YES, I am catholic. I AM a convert, former Episcopalian. I used to dip in the Church of England, but I went to my first CHRISTMAS mass at the Cathedral, & the deacon or lay person saw me start to walk off w. my host towards the chalice I he barked at me & said, YOU WILL CONSUME THAT HOST N-O-W. After the service (I'm repeating myself...lol) I wanted to know what the big deal was. HE said that if you mix the HOST with the CHALICE, the HOST ceases to BE the host, because it is something pure. THe CHALICE is something pure. When you mix the 2, the one & the one are no longer what they were. THey're tainted. THAT is what he said. SO, it's been 2 years & change since then.....I JUST came back from a retreat at Mepkin Abbey. A monastery. Where monks are. Catholic ones. The monks were dipping as were priests. I opened my eyes as wide as they'd go. SO, I didnt know if they just happened to be liberal there or what, and I'm trying to find a definitive answer or a RESOURCE I can use to look it up......CCC isn't helping me much. THANKS.
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  #15  
Old Oct 3, '09, 7:53 am
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Jason_1977 Jason_1977 is offline
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Default Re: Dipping the host in the wine a NO-NO???

[quote=paperwight;5773981]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_1977 View Post
It is quite a common thing to get the chalice in Charleston, SC. I ask this because when I was younger, I had observed people in another church dipping their pita bread in the wine. /QUOTE]

Was this at Catholic Mass?

I have to ask, are you actually Catholic?
PS: If you look in the top right corner, it says what my religion is. I had to point that out.
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