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  #1  
Old Oct 8, '09, 10:27 pm
e61iuser e61iuser is offline
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Default Papal bull caused the black plague?

I just found a new allegation online that a papal bull called "Vox in Rama" by Gregory IX caused a severe reduction of cats in Europe (because they were associated with witchcraft) and therefore increased the population of rats causing the black plague.

Not inclined to believe everything I read, I researched on this alleged papal bull and I have failed to find a record or full text of it online, save for a wikipedia entry (we all know how reliable wikipedia is), and the allegation repeated in various witchcraft sites.

Can anyone shed some light on this matter? Was there really a papal bull to this effect and if so, why isn't it publicly available for viewing? If there really is a papal bull that bans or orders cats destroyed, can the spread of the black plague truly be attributed to it? Was the Catholic Church wrong in doing so?
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  #2  
Old Oct 9, '09, 2:19 am
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DavidFilmer DavidFilmer is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

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Originally Posted by e61iuser View Post
Was there really a papal bull to this effect
No. This whole thing is a fabrication of Jeff Russell in his 1972 book, "Witchcraft in the Middle Ages" pp 160-161. You cannot find any record of this "Bull" published before this time, and you certainly cannot find any actual text.

A Google search for the quoted terms "Vox in Rama" and "Gregory ix" returns a whopping 84 hits (Google amateurs who attempt to verify this claim and contest that it returns 3000+ hits should click on page 10). None fully cite the actual text, in any language (and only a handful attempt to quote any text at all).

In fact, Gregory IX issued only one Papal Bull - "Mira Circa Nos" (which canonized St. Francis of Assisi). This is significant, but not especially exciting to modern folk. Yet, the quoted term "Mira Circa Nos" returns more than 400 hits in Google (amateurs claiming 5000+ hits, please click on page 41), and among the top five hits, three contain the entire text of the Papal Bull.

This supposed "Papal Bull" is, um, bull****.
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  #3  
Old Oct 9, '09, 7:54 am
e61iuser e61iuser is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

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Originally Posted by DavidFilmer View Post
No. This whole thing is a fabrication of Jeff Russell in his 1972 book, "Witchcraft in the Middle Ages" pp 160-161. You cannot find any record of this "Bull" published before this time, and you certainly cannot find any actual text.

A Google search for the quoted terms "Vox in Rama" and "Gregory ix" returns a whopping 84 hits (Google amateurs who attempt to verify this claim and contest that it returns 3000+ hits should click on page 10). None fully cite the actual text, in any language (and only a handful attempt to quote any text at all).

In fact, Gregory IX issued only one Papal Bull - "Mira Circa Nos" (which canonized St. Francis of Assisi). This is significant, but not especially exciting to modern folk. Yet, the quoted term "Mira Circa Nos" returns more than 400 hits in Google (amateurs claiming 5000+ hits, please click on page 41), and among the top five hits, three contain the entire text of the Papal Bull.

This supposed "Papal Bull" is, um, bull****.
Thanks so much David. I knew this sounded too fishy to be true. Besides if it really was historically accurate you'd think it would be more well-known. Looks like people will make up anything just to strike at the truth.
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  #4  
Old Oct 9, '09, 8:20 am
VociMike VociMike is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

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Originally Posted by e61iuser View Post
Looks like people will make up anything just to strike at the truth.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the lesson for today.
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  #5  
Old Oct 9, '09, 8:27 am
Drawmack Drawmack is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

Quote:
Originally Posted by e61iuser View Post
I just found a new allegation online that a papal bull called "Vox in Rama" by Gregory IX caused a severe reduction of cats in Europe (because they were associated with witchcraft) and therefore increased the population of rats causing the black plague.

Not inclined to believe everything I read, I researched on this alleged papal bull and I have failed to find a record or full text of it online, save for a wikipedia entry (we all know how reliable wikipedia is), and the allegation repeated in various witchcraft sites.

Can anyone shed some light on this matter? Was there really a papal bull to this effect and if so, why isn't it publicly available for viewing? If there really is a papal bull that bans or orders cats destroyed, can the spread of the black plague truly be attributed to it? Was the Catholic Church wrong in doing so?
This is hooey, everyone knows that the Pope spread the black plague by actually biting people himself.

Even if the Bull existed, that wouldn't mean that the Catholic Church had intentionally done so to spread the plague as they would not have known the real cause anymore than anyone else at the time did.

Though, it should be noted that there was a cat shortage during the plague it is arguable if it is cause or effect because the plague also affected live stock to some degree.

(Sorry, no disrespect intended -- I just couldn't resist)
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  #6  
Old Oct 9, '09, 8:46 am
VociMike VociMike is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

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Originally Posted by Drawmack View Post
This is hooey, everyone knows that the Pope spread the black plague by actually biting people himself.
And let's not forget the Jesuit assassins he dispatched throughout Europe, covered with infected fleas bred in one of the very few unused torture chambers beneath the high altar.
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  #7  
Old Oct 9, '09, 9:06 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

you forgot some detail, the Jesuit terrorists were albinos
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  #8  
Old Oct 9, '09, 11:05 am
Drawmack Drawmack is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

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Originally Posted by puzzleannie View Post
you forgot some detail, the Jesuit terrorists were albinos
You Catholics always confuse your own history. They were not albino's, they were vampires!
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  #9  
Old Oct 9, '09, 11:08 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

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Originally Posted by Drawmack View Post
You Catholics always confuse your own history. They were not albino's, they were vampires!
well something like that, it must be true I saw the movie
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  #10  
Old Oct 9, '09, 11:16 am
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

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Originally Posted by puzzleannie View Post
well something like that, it must be true I saw the movie
Right after I finished making the movie in my backyard, but a movie none the less.
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  #11  
Old Oct 9, '09, 11:19 am
VociMike VociMike is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

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Originally Posted by Drawmack View Post
You Catholics always confuse your own history. They were not albino's, they were vampires!
Not confusing it, whitewashing it.

But you are right. I consulted Dan Brown's seminal textbook on medieval Catholicism and he confirms what you say.
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  #12  
Old Oct 9, '09, 11:22 am
Drawmack Drawmack is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

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Originally Posted by VociMike View Post
Not confusing it, whitewashing it.

But you are right. I consulted Dan Brown's seminal textbook on medieval Catholicism and he confirms what you say.
But, Dan Brown can't be right because you said there was an empty torture chamber in Rome and according to Dan Brown they booked to double capacity.
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  #13  
Old Oct 9, '09, 12:27 pm
VociMike VociMike is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

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Originally Posted by Drawmack View Post
But, Dan Brown can't be right because you said there was an empty torture chamber in Rome and according to Dan Brown they booked to double capacity.
Dan Brown wrong?! You go too far, sir. Where are my dueling pistols?...
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  #14  
Old Oct 9, '09, 1:10 pm
e61iuser e61iuser is offline
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Default Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

I say! *Puts on monocle*

Dueling pistols? Balderdash! Why in my day we would duke it out by Queen's rules! Toe to toe, 100 rounds!

*Harrumphs*
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  #15  
Old Oct 9, '09, 1:34 pm
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Zooey Zooey is offline
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Talking Re: Papal bull caused the black plague?

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Originally Posted by Drawmack View Post
You Catholics always confuse your own history. They were not albino's, they were vampires!
They were albinos.
They were NOT vampires.
Everybody knows that they were albino werewolves.

I would give you the rest of the details, but I have to go feed the [albino] bats in the belfry before the Count comes back from his meeting with Mr. Renfield.
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