Has there ever been a real female Priest?

[Soutane]

Subsequently I have telephoned the church and asked to speak to the Catholic Priest,a woman's voice said,"yes, that's me,may I help you?"Good enough for you?

[MarcoPolo]

Originally Posted by DavidFilmer

The Church has defined that She does not have authority to ordain women. This is not an ontological limitation of women, but an authoratative limitation of the Church. Jesus granted the Church authority to ordain men, but not women. It is a disparity of authority, not nature.

True, but the Church also expresses a very difference in identity between men and women in their capacity to sit in persona Christi. In reading through Inter Insigniores, perhaps I should not say "ontological" so as to not confuse my point---perhaps "natural" or "with regard to identity." But Pope Paul VI expounds at length on why "one cannot see how it is possible to propose the admission of women to the priesthood. (6c)."

Also:

The Christian priesthood is therefore of a sacramental nature: the priest is a sign, the supernatural effectiveness of which comes from the ordination received, but a sign that must be perceptible and which the faithful must be able to recognise with ease. The whole sacramental economy is in fact based upon natural signs, on symbols imprinted on the human psychology: 'Sacramental signs,' says St.Thomas,' represent what they signify by natural resemblance.' The same natural resemblance is required for persons as for things: when Christ's role in the Eucharist is to be expressed sacramentally, there would not be this 'natural resemblance' which must exist between Christ and his minister if the role of Christ were not taken by a man: in such a case it would be difficult to see in the minister the image of Christ. For Christ himself was and remains a man.

There's a lot more he goes into in section 5 especially. He also addresses many common objections to this line of thinking.

[DavidFilmer]

Originally Posted by Soutane

Subsequently I have telephoned the church and asked to speak to the Catholic Priest,a woman's voice said,"yes, that's me,may I help you?"Good enough for you?

Would you mind sharing the name of the church (or an URL) with us? A Google search for

"Catholic Church with a Difference" "Niagara Falls"

does not return any results, and a search for

"Catholic Church with a Difference"

returns only one hit - for a place in India.

[NoWings]

Originally Posted by The Reginator

I was just reading a column in the secular press by a self-confessed liberal Catholic. The topic was sexual abuse by Catholic priests. Part way through the piece came this line:
"And yet there were married priests -- not to mention some women priests......"

I have heard there may have been some women priests before but I've always doubted the authenticy of this idea.

Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?

I don't think there has been a female priest.

Though, there is that one case of one female bishop.

It makes for entertaining reading.

[Zundrah]

Originally Posted by The Reginator

I was just reading a column in the secular press by a self-confessed liberal Catholic. The topic was sexual abuse by Catholic priests. Part way through the piece came this line:
"And yet there were married priests -- not to mention some women priests......"

I have heard there may have been some women priests before but I've always doubted the authenticy of this idea.

Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?

I'm sure this isn't true, because when people get ordained they have to go somewhere, like a well known cathedral or something. Therefore a woman couldn't be ordained without others knowing about it and to be honest the catholic church will probably never ordain women. And it never has. Anglicans do though (women priest).

[Soutane]

Originally Posted by DavidFilmer

Would you mind sharing the name of the church (or an URL) with us? A Google search for

"Catholic Church with a Difference" "Niagara Falls"

does not return any results, and a search for

"Catholic Church with a Difference"

returns only one hit - for a place in India.

Dear David,I certainly will.It appears in the yellow pages at my home.I can't access it from where I am now but I will have the information monday for you.I do not have a home computer yet and i will soon dispel your apparant mistrust of the truth I have spoken and perhaps you will have the good manners not to question my credibility in the future.

[Ignatius]

Originally Posted by luisgutierrez

Personally, I am in favor of the ordination of women. This is my honest opinion, I hope it is not offensive to anyone here.

In Christ,
Luis

Hello brother Luis,

The Popes have said that this cannot be. Most recently Pope John Paul II of blessed memory and Pope Benedict XVI has confirmed that women cannot become priests and "that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."
It is very clear, the Church's faithful cannot dispute this issue.
Please my beloved brother in Christ, do not willfully reject this very clear teaching of The Church.

[DavidFilmer]

Originally Posted by Soutane

Dear David,I certainly will.It appears in the yellow pages at my home.I can't access it from where I am now but I will have the information monday for you.I do not have a home computer yet and i will soon dispel your apparant mistrust of the truth I have spoken and perhaps you will have the good manners not to question my credibility in the future.

Woah, where did that come from? I am not questioning your credibility; I am questioning their credibility (this "Catholic Church" you mentioned). I have access to resources that list every Catholic Parish in North America, and lists every Catholic Priest.

I suspect (and, in fact, am sure) this church is simply calling itself "Catholic" without being recognized by or subject to your Bishop in any way. This "female priest" has never received Ordination from an actual Catholic Bishop.

You passed along their claims, and I believe you. But I do not believe them. With a bit of background info, I can expose their falsehoods. Thanks for helping to provide this information.

[Mintaka]

Re: female bishop

Your link is talking about being an "equal to the apostles", which is not about being a bishop at all!

"Equal to the apostles" is an Eastern title for someone who was the first to evangelize and convert a people. The Western churches tend to call such people "Apostle to the...." instead. In most places, the first known evangelist was a a man; in some places, it happened to be a woman. (Usually a war captive who was carried there against her will, or a princess who was married to a pagan king. I think the Samaritan woman at the well is also counted in the Eastern churches as an "equal to the apostles", because she evangelized so many in her village. Mary Magdalene is called that because she was the first to tell of Jesus' rising.)

Since these ladies then went to a lot of trouble to get a bishop or priest sent to their countries to follow up on their evangelization, it's fairly evident that they didn't have any delusions that they were bishops or priests!

[NoWings]

Originally Posted by Mintaka

Re: female bishop

Your link is talking about being an "equal to the apostles", which is not about being a bishop at all!

"Equal to the apostles" is an Eastern title for someone who was the first to evangelize and convert a people. The Western churches tend to call such people "Apostle to the...." instead. In most places, the first known evangelist was a a man; in some places, it happened to be a woman. (Usually a war captive who was carried there against her will, or a princess who was married to a pagan king. I think the Samaritan woman at the well is also counted in the Eastern churches as an "equal to the apostles", because she evangelized so many in her village. Mary Magdalene is called that because she was the first to tell of Jesus' rising.)

Since these ladies then went to a lot of trouble to get a bishop or priest sent to their countries to follow up on their evangelization, it's fairly evident that they didn't have any delusions that they were bishops or priests!

The post that gets to that is about 5 after that one. The post I linked to sets up the discussion. Though, if you'd like, I'll just link to the post that talks about Saint Brigid.

Also, for anyone too lazy to do so, here's one a few posts later with a story from one Father Ambrose of CAF fame.

[Soutane]

Originally Posted by DavidFilmer

Woah, where did that come from? I am not questioning your credibility; I am questioning their credibility (this "Catholic Church" you mentioned). I have access to resources that list every Catholic Parish in North America, and lists every Catholic Priest.

I suspect (and, in fact, am sure) this church is simply calling itself "Catholic" without being recognized by or subject to your Bishop in any way. This "female priest" has never received Ordination from an actual Catholic Bishop.

You passed along their claims, and I believe you. But I do not believe them. With a bit of background info, I can expose their falsehoods. Thanks for helping to provide this information.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.My apologies..The "church" in question is St.Luke Ecumenical Catholic Church of Christ.It advertises itself as "A Catholic Church with a Difference""join us for mass in the Lutheran Church of the Good Shephard,3900 Dorchester Rd Niagara Falls,Canada.Sundays at 11:00am .Weddings and Baptisms By Appointment".

[DavidFilmer]

Originally Posted by Soutane

The "church" in question is St.Luke Ecumenical Catholic Church of Christ.It advertises itself as "A Catholic Church with a Difference""join us for mass in the Lutheran Church of the Good Shephard,3900 Dorchester Rd Niagara Falls,Canada.Sundays at 11:00am".

Ah, thanks. I've never heard of these guys, of course. But a bit of research shows this:

They seem to be a group who fairly recently broke away from the unity of the Catholic Church to go off and do their own thing. The movement originated in Kenya (and was originally called the "Reformed Catholic Church" - one of several uncreative breakaway churches to use that name). It has a North American presence in Miami and Niagara Falls, ON. St. Luke's bills itself as a pro-Cathedral (ie, a temporary cathedral) and is pastored by a Bishop, DW Mullan (who likely possesses valid Apostolic Orders) and an "assistant pastor," Marilyn Chamberlain - this was probably the woman with whom you spoke.

So I was correct in suspecting that the group is simply calling itself "Catholic" (I was once a member of the "Anglican Catholic Church," which was a also protestant church with apostolically valid Bishops).

But I was (probably) wrong to suspect that a Bishop had never (attempted to) ordain Ms. Chamberlain. The group has not (yet) clearly forfeited the Apostolic lineage of its Bishops (who are episcopi vagantes). But no Bishop, wandering or otherwise, has the authority to ordain a woman, so this "ordination" of Ms. Chamberlain was to no effect (and, of course, the Sacramental requirement of proper intent is highly dubious as well).

The fact that they meet in a Lutheran building is of no consequence (although I'm surprised that the Lutherans aren't using their building on Sunday mornings at 11:00 am - that's Prime Time in most churches - and It's funny to designate rented space in a Lutheran church as a "pro-Cathedral").

These guys have much more serious problems.

[Jehoshua]

Reminds me of St Mary's church in Brisbane, Australia. Thankfully the heretic priest was expelled and orthodoxy has been restored. I pray for that parish.

[Soutane]

Originally Posted by DavidFilmer

Ah, thanks. I've never heard of these guys, of course. But a bit of research shows this:

They seem to be a group who fairly recently broke away from the unity of the Catholic Church to go off and do their own thing. The movement originated in Kenya (and was originally called the "Reformed Catholic Church" - one of several uncreative breakaway churches to use that name). It has a North American presence in Miami and Niagara Falls, ON. St. Luke's bills itself as a pro-Cathedral (ie, a temporary cathedral) and is pastored by a Bishop, DW Mullan (who likely possesses valid Apostolic Orders) and an "assistant pastor," Marilyn Chamberlain - this was probably the woman with whom you spoke.

So I was correct in suspecting that the group is simply calling itself "Catholic" (I was once a member of the "Anglican Catholic Church," which was a also protestant church with apostolically valid Bishops).

But I was (probably) wrong to suspect that a Bishop had never (attempted to) ordain Ms. Chamberlain. The group has not (yet) clearly forfeited the Apostolic lineage of its Bishops (who are episcopi vagantes). But no Bishop, wandering or otherwise, has the authority to ordain a woman, so this "ordination" of Ms. Chamberlain was to no effect (and, of course, the Sacramental requirement of proper intent is highly dubious as well).

The fact that they meet in a Lutheran building is of no consequence (although I'm surprised that the Lutherans aren't using their building on Sunday mornings at 11:00 am - that's Prime Time in most churches - and It's funny to designate rented space in a Lutheran church as a "pro-Cathedral").

These guys have much more serious problems.

Thanks for your diligence and info