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  #1  
Old Nov 1, '09, 2:36 pm
gmcbroom gmcbroom is offline
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Default The Lords Prayer ending question.

I was raised in a protestant church the Disciples of Christ when I was a child. When I became a teenager I had an experience at that church that in effect made me question why I was there. So I left without ever getting baptised. I wandered for years going to church after church until I finally found a home in a Maronite Catholic church. Now as of yesterday I was annointed to begin my journey in RCIA to become a Maronite Catholic. .
Now while I am learning what it means to be Catholic. I still say the Lords Prayer the same way I learned it as a child at the Disciples of Christ. It's in essence the same way the people at my church say it except for the last sentence is different. The way I end it is,"FOR THINE IS THE KINGDOM, AND THE POWER, AND THE GLORY, FOREVER AMEN."

Is it okay for me to still say it like this even though I'll be Catholic? I realize it may have a protestant feel to it but its the way I was taught, and I feel comfortable saying it that way. Would I be bringing scandal by saying it? Scandal is a bad thing in the church from what I'm learning. I'd hate to be kicked out as soon as I found a church where I feel at home. But I know such is life.
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  #2  
Old Nov 1, '09, 2:44 pm
futureKC123 futureKC123 is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

I am no expert. I think it would be ok for a while to say it the Protestant way, but my opinion is that eventually you should learn to say it the the Catholic way.
Hope this helps.
A.M.D.G.
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  #3  
Old Nov 1, '09, 3:09 pm
jbelokur jbelokur is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

Absolutely! Firstly because the prayer including the ending is included in Matthews' Gospel (I think that is where it is though it may be Luke that has this version)and secondly the Church uses the whole prayer in Her liturgy. It is up to you which version you use the devotion is in saying it with your heart, mind and soul, not which version you use. Hope this helps.

I was right, this form is found in Matthew 6:9-13. An alternate version of the Our Father is found in Luke 11:2-4.

Grace and Peace
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  #4  
Old Nov 1, '09, 3:35 pm
gmcbroom gmcbroom is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

Thankyou both for your responses. i won't worry about how I say the prayer then. I primarily say the prayer during when I say the Rosary and I say that nightly though I'm not baptised yet. It relaxes me and helps me get used to the scriptures.
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  #5  
Old Nov 1, '09, 3:59 pm
Bbigam Bbigam is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

Just a note: You might want to change your profile Religion setting to indicate that you are a catechumen/In RCIA or whatever. Because you're not actually Catholic yet - like me!
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  #6  
Old Nov 1, '09, 4:23 pm
Texas Roofer Texas Roofer is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcbroom View Post
I was raised in a protestant church the Disciples of Christ when I was a child. When I became a teenager I had an experience at that church that in effect made me question why I was there. So I left without ever getting baptised. I wandered for years going to church after church until I finally found a home in a Maronite Catholic church. Now as of yesterday I was annointed to begin my journey in RCIA to become a Maronite Catholic. .
Now while I am learning what it means to be Catholic. I still say the Lords Prayer the same way I learned it as a child at the Disciples of Christ. It's in essence the same way the people at my church say it except for the last sentence is different. The way I end it is,"FOR THINE IS THE KINGDOM, AND THE POWER, AND THE GLORY, FOREVER AMEN."

Is it okay for me to still say it like this even though I'll be Catholic?
My advice is this is fine outside of Mass, however in Mass please use the Catholic version
Quote:
I realize it may have a protestant feel to it but its the way I was taught, and I feel comfortable saying it that way. Would I be bringing scandal by saying it?
Scandle seems way to harsh a word for this
Quote:
Scandal is a bad thing in the church from what I'm learning. I'd hate to be kicked out as soon as I found a church where I feel at home. But I know such is life.
That is a bit over reaching scandle involves things which appear to be sin. Excomunication (kicking out) is rare and requires extreme actions - usually teaching against the church.

You should learn in class the issue here is the Protestants produced an English bible translation long before Catholics which produced these type of issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbigam View Post
Just a note: You might want to change your profile Religion setting to indicate that you are a catechumen/In RCIA or whatever. Because you're not actually Catholic yet - like me!
He is okay to call himself catholic as are you. He is not yet in full communion with the Church.

It is great to have you both on board
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  #7  
Old Nov 2, '09, 12:49 am
gmcbroom gmcbroom is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

Thanks. I wanted to proclaim my suri iuris by putting Maronite Catholic and as for the Catachumen, well thats a temperory status so I didn't want to have to change it later when I was more official ie able to go to receive Communion. I go to church twice a week, read the scripture that my church recommends daily, and even pray the Rosary daily.(I never thought I'd do that ). I speak to alot of friends who are lapsed Catholics and I think they may come back or atleast check out my church. From what I'm learning those are all good habits to start. Anyway, thankyou all for responding it means alot. I still have alot to learn.
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  #8  
Old Nov 2, '09, 5:28 am
jbelokur jbelokur is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

That is great! Keep witnessing for Christ and His Church!

Grace and Peace
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  #9  
Old Nov 2, '09, 5:31 pm
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CB Catholic CB Catholic is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcbroom View Post
Thanks. I wanted to proclaim my suri iuris by putting Maronite Catholic and as for the Catachumen, well thats a temperory status so I didn't want to have to change it later when I was more official ie able to go to receive Communion. I go to church twice a week, read the scripture that my church recommends daily, and even pray the Rosary daily.(I never thought I'd do that ). I speak to alot of friends who are lapsed Catholics and I think they may come back or atleast check out my church. From what I'm learning those are all good habits to start. Anyway, thankyou all for responding it means alot. I still have alot to learn.
I think one of the best habits you are forming is sharing your faith with your friends! It seems He is using you already. God bless you.
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  #10  
Old Nov 2, '09, 6:46 pm
Lutheranteach Lutheranteach is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

I always find this funny. The Lord's Prayer (Our Father) is the one way you can always tell the visiting protestants at a mass. All the Catholics stop short on the Lord's prayer and we keep going. I've seen it often, even did it once or twice. It's embarrassing.
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  #11  
Old Nov 3, '09, 11:05 am
ricko ricko is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

I don't have time to give references, maybe someone can look it up but the truth is that the ending is NOT part of the Lords Prayer.
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  #12  
Old Nov 3, '09, 11:18 am
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crazzeto crazzeto is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by futureKC123 View Post
I am no expert. I think it would be ok for a while to say it the Protestant way, but my opinion is that eventually you should learn to say it the the Catholic way.
Hope this helps.
A.M.D.G.
We Catholics do (at least in many cases, all of my experience anyway) say this very thing after saying the Lords Prayer in Mass. If you wish to add this when saying it personally, you can go for it. However do so knowing that it is not a part of the prayer, and it is not anything our Lord ever uttered. This segways beautifully into my recommending the following book, which every Christian (esp non-catholics) should read:

Where We Got the Bible... Our Debt to the Catholic Church
By Bishop Henry G. Grahm - Who converted from super calvinist church of englander to Roman Catholic (I beleive just prior to writing this book).

This book enlightens us as to how the Protestant belief of Sola Scriptura has lead them to nearly universally believe our Lord uttered these words, and is actually a beautiful illistration of the fallocy of this doctrine.

Now for starters, what we have to understand is that "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory" is something that developed with in the context of early christianity. It was something early christians came up with to sort of... Add and exclamation point on certain things. As such, it was something that really moved a lot of early christians, including the early scribes. This is important because for many thousands of years, the bible was kept alive (by the Catholic chruch BTW) through monks and scribes copying, by hand the whole of it repeatedly. Some scribes, would add thier own notes to the sides of pages. It was understood (at the time) that this was not gospel text, but that scribes helpful interpetation or thoughts. "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory" was just one such example of one of these notes, which at some point a later scribe confused for gospel text! That's right, at some point this got added to early protestant bibles as gospel text for no reason other than a scribe, some where along the way accidently thought that was a part of the Gospel when it was never a part of it, it was just a note that scribe added to add his enthusiasm, his exclamation mark to the lords prayer!

And to this vary day, even with better translations out there, protistants still think that's part of the prayer, but it isn't. Thus is the problem with Sola Scriptura. God never promised that every scribe ever to copy the bible would be inspired to not mess up. Scribes did mess up, there were over 200,000 variations in Gospel text copied (by hand) over the years. The only known good, accurate fully repersentitve of the original text version we have is the Vulgate (and not Novo Vulgate), a Catholic bible btw

For Catholics (and Orthodox) this isn't a problem. We understand that Christ didn't leave us a dead book, subject to copy and translation error to guide our faith. But rather left a living, breathing teaching institution (the church) to guide our faith and morals. Proestants on the other hand well... I guess I can't speak for you, but I would be questioning my own beliefs right now if I was one

Aren't you glad you switched teams?
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  #13  
Old Nov 3, '09, 11:20 am
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crazzeto crazzeto is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricko View Post
I don't have time to give references, maybe someone can look it up but the truth is that the ending is NOT part of the Lords Prayer.
Here is the prayer, as per Douay-Rheims:

Quote:
9 Thus therefore shall you pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our supersubstantial bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen. 14 For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will forgive you also your offences. 15 But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences. 16 And when you fast, be not as the hypocrites, sad. For they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.....
Notice the prayer ends "But deliver us from evil." and then moves on to an explanation of the forgiveness aspect, then just moves completely off the topic of the prayer?
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  #14  
Old Nov 3, '09, 2:36 pm
Contrabass101 Contrabass101 is offline
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Default Re: The Lords Prayer ending question.

Some of the Greek manuscripts include the "for Yours are the Kingdom etc" (this ending is called "the doxology" in theological lingo, it means "praising").

The doxology was probably not part of the original prayer, but rather was used with the Our Father in the ancient liturgy. That way it made it's way into the Gospel. That is a pretty good explanation anyway, as to why it is not found in the oldest manuscripts.
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