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  #1  
Old Nov 11, '09, 7:06 pm
tcreed123 tcreed123 is offline
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Default Where two or more are gathered

Basic question needing some insight for additional thought.
In scripture it states not in so many words where two or more are gathered there is God. My question is what is the meaning/interpretation behind this passage?
Thanks,
Tommy
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Old Nov 11, '09, 9:09 pm
PAboy57 PAboy57 is offline
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Default Re: Where two or more are gathered

I think Jesus is telling us that when we come together to worship He will be there to listen to us. This was said when He was giving the apostles instructions on how to proceed with their preaching and the church.
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Old Nov 11, '09, 9:37 pm
amgp amgp is offline
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Default Re: Where two or more are gathered

Unfortunately, this is also the excuse my "Bible Christian" brother uses to not attend a church on Sundays. He tells his kids that as long as at least two members of their family are together, then they don't need to worship with others in a church.

Last edited by amgp; Nov 11, '09 at 9:49 pm.
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Old Nov 11, '09, 9:43 pm
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Where two or more are gathered

In Judaism, the quorum for prayer (minyan) was 10 adult males.

Jesus is giving the Christian minyan.
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Old Nov 11, '09, 10:07 pm
diggerdomer diggerdomer is offline
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Default Re: Where two or more are gathered

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcreed123 View Post
Basic question needing some insight for additional thought.
In scripture it states not in so many words where two or more are gathered there is God. My question is what is the meaning/interpretation behind this passage?
Thanks,
Tommy
Christ is present in the Church community.

Quote:
He is present, lastly, when the Church prays and sings, for He promised: "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Mt 18:20) .
See para 7 of Sacrosanctum Concilium:
http://www.adoremus.org/SacrosanctumConcilium.html
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Old Nov 13, '09, 3:07 pm
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Windmill Windmill is offline
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Default Re: Where two or more are gathered

That is from Matthew 18:20 where it says:

Quote:
"For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
Many Bible Christians say that this is all it takes to form a Church. The funny thing about this is that in the exact same chapter of Matthew, just 5 verses before, we read this:

Quote:
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
It also occurs only two chapters after the famous Petrine text in Matthew 16:

Quote:
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
Remember, in the original texts there were no numberings of Chapter and Verse. It was simply "The Gospel of Matthew"....one long book. The ideas naturally flowed. Given the immediate context of the original quote above, I think we can clearly see what Matthew's idea of "Church" is.

So, the obvious question presents itself: "If all it takes are two people gathered in Jesus's name to form a 'Church', then what's to stop some rogue who won't listen to the 'Church' from rebelling from that 'Church' and forming his own 'Church'?" It makes a farce of the idea of authority, and even of the idea of "Church" because if all it takes is some clique to say, "We're gathered in Jesus's name, therefore we have His authority," there is no real way that group can anathematize an individual as Jesus commanded in the quote above. Why not? Because that person can simply gather a few people together and start their own Church.

Hey wait. That's Protestantism.

The only way to avoid this anarchy is to realize that the Church is continuous from Apostolic times, and that visible, recognizable body still has the authority to excommunicate, and it still has the authority to determine what doctrine is right and wrong (and thus, excommunicate on those grounds). That body is governed by the one who holds the Key's of the Kingdom (Matt 16:19), the successor to St. Peter, the Bishop of Rome, the Pope.

Now, that's a safeguard against what some try to make the original quote mean. As far as what a Catholic should take from this passage, I think the above posters did a good job of answering, so I won't repeat them.
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