How to Start?

[RevDrNorth]

I was thinking.....if you wanted to swim the Tiber at this point what would you do? I suppose you could contact RC authorities because no actual Anglican ordinariate exists. Until that gets set up you would just be individual clergy. If the TAC/ACA goes over as a group that may start the ball rolling. If I recall some issues in the constitution only allow a short cut if you go as a group (example RCIA).

Also, will these clergy be required to undergo additional training to function as RC priests (Anglican flavor) or will they be accepted as is since they will primarily function within an Anglican liturgical environment. If so, how does Rome ensure they are on board AND understand RC doctrine?

[Annie39]

Originally Posted by RevDrNorth

I was thinking.....if you wanted to swim the Tiber at this point what would you do? I suppose you could contact RC authorities because no actual Anglican ordinariate exists. Until that gets set up you would just be individual clergy. If the TAC/ACA goes over as a group that may start the ball rolling. If I recall some issues in the constitution only allow a short cut if you go as a group (example RCIA).

Also, will these clergy be required to undergo additional training to function as RC priests (Anglican flavor) or will they be accepted as is since they will primarily function within an Anglican liturgical environment. If so, how does Rome ensure they are on board AND understand RC doctrine?

RevDrNorth,
I thought of recommending that you email an Anglican Use Catholic Priest I once knew but I think that a better idea would be to recommend that you get in touch with the Coming Home Network. http://www.chnetwork.org/

[Texas Roofer]

Originally Posted by RevDrNorth

I was thinking.....if you wanted to swim the Tiber at this point what would you do? I suppose you could contact RC authorities because no actual Anglican ordinariate exists. Until that gets set up you would just be individual clergy. If the TAC/ACA goes over as a group that may start the ball rolling. If I recall some issues in the constitution only allow a short cut if you go as a group (example RCIA).

Also, will these clergy be required to undergo additional training to function as RC priests (Anglican flavor) or will they be accepted as is since they will primarily function within an Anglican liturgical environment. If so, how does Rome ensure they are on board AND understand RC doctrine?

Hi RevDrNorth

I am not sure I follow your post however if you are "Clergy" as listed in your profile RCIA would not be appropriate. RCIA is based for conversion of an unpracticed person. We and most RCIA end up as a catch net for a variety of adults missing some sacraments, however to include clergy would be an extreme stretch. Additionally, most RCIA is taught by volunteer lay people who would really be under prepared for developing a clergy member. My suggestion is to contact the local diocese. btw - I do know clergy who came into the church at the parish level however they chose not to seek clergy status inside the catholic church so they joined as a regular lay person. They could like any other catholic apply to be a Deacon which is a married clergy (not a Priest). If selected to the Deacon process they basically attend classes for 4-5 years. Once ordained Deacons do a variety of functions but not sacraments. Concerning Priest, really all deacons and Priests are processed at the diocese level typically through a Catholic College.


Hope that helps

[BernadetteM]

From previous posts from Dr. North I am assuming he is part of a continuing Anglican group and has no desire to enter into the Catholic Church.

That is my take on it. It was kind to give him advice about contacting the Coming Home Network or an Anglican Use priest, but that is not what I believe his post meant.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

[rtconstant]

Originally Posted by RevDrNorth

I was thinking.....if you wanted to swim the Tiber at this point what would you do? I suppose you could contact RC authorities because no actual Anglican ordinariate exists. Until that gets set up you would just be individual clergy. If the TAC/ACA goes over as a group that may start the ball rolling. If I recall some issues in the constitution only allow a short cut if you go as a group (example RCIA).

Also, will these clergy be required to undergo additional training to function as RC priests (Anglican flavor) or will they be accepted as is since they will primarily function within an Anglican liturgical environment. If so, how does Rome ensure they are on board AND understand RC doctrine?

I'm no expert but I'm thinking that everything would ultimately be delt with on a case by case basis until some Anglican Ordinaries are established. Since Vatican II an active Christian is supposed to be judged individually by the local Bishop and then initiation is handled in whatever way he deems best. However, the number of conversions and along with the work load of our bishops has caused RCIA to become the default, which really isn't fair, but it is what it is I suppose.

[Eutychus123]

Based on Cardinal Kasper's remarks, I am not sure if TAC, or any Continuing Anglicans are covered in the AC.

Here is the link

http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it.../1341020?eng=y

[jmcrae]

Originally Posted by RevDrNorth

I was thinking.....if you wanted to swim the Tiber at this point what would you do? I suppose you could contact RC authorities because no actual Anglican ordinariate exists. Until that gets set up you would just be individual clergy. If the TAC/ACA goes over as a group that may start the ball rolling. If I recall some issues in the constitution only allow a short cut if you go as a group (example RCIA).

Also, will these clergy be required to undergo additional training to function as RC priests (Anglican flavor) or will they be accepted as is since they will primarily function within an Anglican liturgical environment. If so, how does Rome ensure they are on board AND understand RC doctrine?

At the very least you would undergo ordination into the Catholic priesthood, since Anglican orders are not officially accepted as being valid. I think there would also be a certain amount of process for inculturation, since Catholic culture has a lot of unique features that you might not be used to - and if you are going to be working in a parish, you will need to know what kind of things to expect, and what's acceptable, or not.

I suppose the amount of training required would depend on individual needs. Hopefully they would not require you to do a whole philosophy program, as if you were still 16-18 years old.

If you want to "swim the Tiber" right now, what I would suggest is to get in contact with your local Catholic Bishop, and ask his advice on how to proceed. I'd go directly to the Bishop, rather than to a local priest, since I think the Bishop is the one with the wherewithal and authority to make things happen, in a case like yours.

[GKC]

Originally Posted by rtconstant

I'm no expert but I'm thinking that everything would ultimately be delt with on a case by case basis until some Anglican Ordinaries are established. Since Vatican II an active Christian is supposed to be judged individually by the local Bishop and then initiation is handled in whatever way he deems best. However, the number of conversions and along with the work load of our bishops has caused RCIA to become the default, which really isn't fair, but it is what it is I suppose.

I think the Cardinal is misrepresenting the origin of the whole thing. It was not done by and for the official Communion. It originated from the TAC. The CoE participation is less than a year old. If this is the correct interpretation, someone has seriously mislead the entire TAC episcopate.

GKC

[Gerry Hunter]

One thing to bear in mind with respect to those seeking to receive Holy Orders. It cannot happen quickly, and be somehow an automatic thing on reception into the Church. An Anglican cleric who is received into the Church is a neophyte for a year, and that is a simple impediment to the reception of Holy Orders under the Canons. True, it can be dispensed by the appropriate authority, but that has been very rare. When the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus (a Lutheran cleric) was received into the Church, a year (exactly) passed before he was ordained a priest.

From what he had written about the process, it appears that, the eminent theologian that he was, instruction in the faith was not particularly extensive in his case. But even for him, a year passed.

So there is, given the canons, plenty of time for evaluation and formation as needed with respect to Anglican clerics who seek Holy Orders.

Locally, some years ago, an Anglican Rector joined the Catholic Church. In just over a year, he was ordained.

And of course, nothing in the Constitution prevents any Anglican from coming to the Church and being received into the Latin Rite, as an individual, if they so desire. And if they do that, they are not breaking any new ground, as far as being received and perhaps ordained is concerned. There's no "Anglicans must enter here" in the provisions.

Blessings,

Gerry

[Eutychus123]

Originally Posted by GKC

I think the Cardinal is misrepresenting the origin of the whole thing. It was not done by and for the official Communion. It originated from the TAC. The CoE participation is less than a year old. If this is the correct interpretation, someone has seriously mislead the entire TAC episcopate.

GKC

I don't know if this is just "sour grapes" on Cardinal Kasper's part. Perhaps he feels that Cardinal Levada did an "end run" around the ecumenical process. This could be worrisome for those who want to take the "plunge."

[GKC]

Originally Posted by Eutychus123

I don't know if this is just "sour grapes" on Cardinal Kasper's part. Perhaps he feels that Cardinal Levada did an "end run" around the ecumenical process. This could be worrisome for those who want to take the "plunge."

Sour grapes I account it. It shows the futility of the ARCIC process i the recent years. Kaspar was cut out.

I will take some convincing to believe that this is not an open door that was opened for and by the TAC initiative.

GKC

[RevDrNorth]

Originally Posted by Gerry Hunter

One thing to bear in mind with respect to those seeking to receive Holy Orders. It cannot happen quickly, and be somehow an automatic thing on reception into the Church. An Anglican cleric who is received into the Church is a neophyte for a year, and that is a simple impediment to the reception of Holy Orders under the Canons. True, it can be dispensed by the appropriate authority, but that has been very rare. When the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus (a Lutheran cleric) was received into the Church, a year (exactly) passed before he was ordained a priest.

From what he had written about the process, it appears that, the eminent theologian that he was, instruction in the faith was not particularly extensive in his case. But even for him, a year passed.

So there is, given the canons, plenty of time for evaluation and formation as needed with respect to Anglican clerics who seek Holy Orders.

Locally, some years ago, an Anglican Rector joined the Catholic Church. In just over a year, he was ordained.

And of course, nothing in the Constitution prevents any Anglican from coming to the Church and being received into the Latin Rite, as an individual, if they so desire. And if they do that, they are not breaking any new ground, as far as being received and perhaps ordained is concerned. There's no "Anglicans must enter here" in the provisions.

Blessings,

Gerry

Thanks to all for advice but I have not decided whether or not I will make the leap. There are many issues to consider.

My post was more in relation to a generic question of what anyone would do since there is no ordinariate.

Also, Gerry, I did not see anything in the Constitution about a waiting period for Anglican clergy. Are you sure this is the case. My impression was the process could begin right away (ie no year long waiting period).

[Gerry Hunter]

Originally Posted by RevDrNorth

...
Also, Gerry, I did not see anything in the Constitution about a waiting period for Anglican clergy. Are you sure this is the case. My impression was the process could begin right away (ie no year long waiting period).

There wouldn't have to be an explicit mention of a "waiting period" in the Constitution, because it is the Canons themselves that stipulate that being a neophyte is a simple impediment to Holy Orders. As I mentioned, it can be waived, but seldom, it seems, is, and nothing in the Constitution indicates that the Canon will somehow be put in abeyance on a collective basis.

These are quite early days in the whole process, actually. Could a mechanism be put in place that led to a dispensation from the full period of the simple impediment? Yes, it could, but it is not mentioned yet.

When women's ordination first presented as an issue in the UK, Pope John Paul II told then Cardinal Ratzinger to "be generous with these men" who sought to join the Church. It seems to me that spirit still prevails, so things are open to development. But the Canons will not be simply ignored, for sure.

Blessings,

Gerry

[Hesychios]

Originally Posted by Gerry Hunter

There wouldn't have to be an explicit mention of a "waiting period" in the Constitution, because it is the Canons themselves that stipulate that being a neophyte is a simple impediment to Holy Orders. As I mentioned, it can be waived, but seldom, it seems, is, and nothing in the Constitution indicates that the Canon will somehow be put in abeyance on a collective basis.

Interesting.

However in that case, if a structured group (such as the TAC, for example) did wish to accept the invitiation it would basically have to shut down for a full year. That is not practical, the congregations would dissolve in a year's time without services.

I am betting that no such probationary period will be imposed in this case, it would have to be waived as a practical matter. More than likely the parishes will continue to function with their "non-Catholic" pastors until they are ready to be received as a complete unit.

[jmcrae]

Originally Posted by Hesychios

Interesting.

However in that case, if a structured group (such as the TAC, for example) did wish to accept the invitiation it would basically have to shut down for a full year. That is not practical, the congregations would dissolve in a year's time without services.

I am betting that no such probationary period will be imposed in this case, it would have to be waived as a practical matter. More than likely the parishes will continue to function with their "non-Catholic" pastors until they are ready to be received as a complete unit.

How was it handled when Alex Jones made his church to be Catholic? I am very sure he didn't continue as the pastor there - the Bishop assigned a Catholic priest, did he not?