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  #1  
Old Nov 27, '09, 7:52 am
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James924 James924 is offline
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Default Thine is the kingdom?

my future mother in law asked the following:

"Conversation here...how long has the catholic church said the Lords prayer with the for thine is the kingdom...phrase at the end?"

I've always heard " the kingdom and the power and the Glory are yours.". I'm not sure if that is what she meant or if she is redding to something new.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old Nov 27, '09, 8:59 am
tmancath tmancath is offline
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Default Re: Thine is the kingdom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James924 View Post
my future mother in law asked the following:

"Conversation here...how long has the catholic church said the Lords prayer with the for thine is the kingdom...phrase at the end?"

I've always heard " the kingdom and the power and the Glory are yours.". I'm not sure if that is what she meant or if she is redding to something new.

Thoughts?
For thine is the kingom and the power and the glory are yours now and forever is a dexology after the priest does his dexology prayer. It is not part of the Lord's prayer. It has been used at mass the way we do it since 1969 I believe. If you open your Catholic Bible you will notice that the dexology we use is not part of the Lord's prayer. But it is included at the end of some Protestant Translations such as the the King James Version. The Dexology actually comes form the Didache produced about 150 AD
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  #3  
Old Nov 27, '09, 10:12 am
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puppypatrol puppypatrol is offline
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Default Re: Thine is the kingdom?

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Quote:
2760 Very early on, liturgical usage concluded the Lord's Prayer with a doxology. In the Didache, we find, "For yours are the power and the glory for ever."4 The Apostolic Constitutions add to the beginning: "the kingdom," and this is the formula retained to our day in ecumenical prayer.5 The Byzantine tradition adds after "the glory" the words "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." The Roman Missal develops the last petition in the explicit perspective of "awaiting our blessed hope" and of the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.6 Then comes the assembly's acclamation or the repetition of the doxology from the Apostolic Constitutions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Lk 11:1.
2 Cf. Lk 11:2-4.
3 Cf. Mt 6:9-13.
4 Didache 8,2:SCh 248,174.
5 Apostolic Constitutions, 7,24,1:PG 1,1016.
6 Titus 2:13; cf. Roman Missal 22, Embolism after the Lord's Prayer.
This is also a really good article.
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  #4  
Old Nov 27, '09, 9:12 pm
diggerdomer diggerdomer is offline
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Default Re: Thine is the kingdom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James924 View Post
my future mother in law asked the following:

"Conversation here...how long has the catholic church said the Lords prayer with the for thine is the kingdom...phrase at the end?"

I've always heard " the kingdom and the power and the Glory are yours.". I'm not sure if that is what she meant or if she is redding to something new.

Thoughts?
Some early textual evidence includes this as part of the Lord's prayer. Others don't. Either way one is praying the Lord's prayer.
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  #5  
Old Nov 28, '09, 4:01 pm
japhy japhy is offline
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Default Re: Thine is the kingdom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James924 View Post
"how long has the catholic church said the Lords prayer with the for thine is the kingdom...phrase at the end?"
We don't say it as part of the Our Father. The Ordinary Form (which came into use starting in 1969) included it in the liturgy after the Our Father and after the "embolism" (Greek for "insertion") that the priest prays ("Deliver us, O Lord, from every evil...").

So in the Roman liturgy, it's only been used for 40 years.
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  #6  
Old Nov 28, '09, 6:42 pm
peary peary is offline
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Default Re: Thine is the kingdom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James924 View Post
my future mother in law asked the following:

"Conversation here...how long has the catholic church said the Lords prayer with the for thine is the kingdom...phrase at the end?"

I've always heard " the kingdom and the power and the Glory are yours.". I'm not sure if that is what she meant or if she is redding to something new.

Thoughts?
Is she Catholic? Protestants end the Lord's Prayer with "For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory forever and ever." In some old biblical manuscripts it is included; in others it isn't. The Catholic version has always been that from the Matthew's Gospel. Most protestant denominations add it to the Lord's Prayer, however.


Catholics do not add to the Our Father the doxology, "For Thine is the kingdom, power, and glory, forever and ever", which is not found in the earliest manuscripts of the Gospel of Matthew. However, this doxology, in the form "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and for ever", is used in the Roman Rite Mass as revised in 1970, separated from the Lord's Prayer by a prayer,spoken or sung by the priest, that elaborates on the final petition, "Deliver us from evil." In the 1975 ICEL translation, this prayer reads: "Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ."
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  #7  
Old Dec 1, '09, 2:10 pm
johnnykins johnnykins is offline
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Default Re: Thine is the kingdom?

I distinctly remember in pre-history when I was in second grade an Eastern Catholic kid in class got quite upset when Sister said the addition was "Protestant." He was quite clear that his parish said it. So - it's Catholic - but Latin Catholics have not used it much until the advent of the NO.
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