Marthoma community (Anglican Communion)

[SyroMalankara]

This thread is intended to discuss the merits of the claims of the Marthoma community, it's claims to Apostolic Succession, and mainly its claim that it preserves the authentic faith of the St. Thomas Christians who were converted by Saint Thomas the Apostle.




In this thread, please DO NOT mention Trisshurian Syro-Malabar theories. Any mentions of fact should, if questioned, should be backed up with scholarly and/or academic citation - do not cite personal opinion as fact - if this opinion is questioned, be prepared to explain and defend your position using primary and secondary sources. Do not cite yourself.

It is perfectly acceptable to state "My theory is" such and such, but DO NOT cite it as FACT without scholarly basis.

Do not launch any personal attacks.

Do not derail this thread by mentioning things which have nothing to do with the topic (e.g. Everyone should be Syrian Orthodox under Antioch, etc)

Tangents which form from free discussion are perfectly acceptable, provided that any questions which come up in regard to the appropriate topic are throughly discussed and answered.

[SyroMalankara]

In another thread, poster Eaglewatch stated that in his view, the Marthoma community preserves the authentic faith as practiced by the St. Thomas Christians of the Malabar Coast.

I find this position highly untenable. The authentic faith of the St. Thomas Christians is the same faith as the authentic faith of the Antiochian Christians, which is the same as the authentic faith of the Roman Christians, which is the same faith as all Apostolic Churches, which is the faith handed to us from the Apostles in Christ Jesus.

When the Marthoma church claims that they have "preserved the authentic faith", it implies that the other Apostolic Christian groups have diverted from that faith. Reason and history tells us that in regard to Eucharist, the Episcopate, Saints, prayers for the departed, Scripture and Sacred Tradition - the beliefs of the the Oriental Orthodox Communion (which is the Malankara, Armenians, Ethiopians, Copts, Syrians, Eritreans) is the same as the Eastern Orthodox Communion (Greek, Russian, Slavic,etc) and the Catholic Communion (Latin, Byzantine, Chaldean, Syriac, Alexandrian, Armenian, Indian)- how can the Marthoma community then claim, logically, that they ALONE have preserved the authentic faith? Logically, their claims lead to the conclusion that ALL other Christian Churches accepted heresy, if that is the claim, it begs the question when did this first happen - when did the vast majority of Christians fall into heresy that only the Marthomites were able to free themselves from?

[lukathomas]

A typical Mar Thoma Church member presents there history with their lineage – that is which Protestant Reformation concept. I think that is the reason why they make all claims.
But there are scholars among them who have mentioned these changes. They are a group which followed Anglicans and were known as Navikaranakar or Reformed Jacobites till they took the name Mar Thoma Church.

Church doctrine, liturgy is thoroughly protestant and some among them has problems in accepting that and that may be the reason behind all the claims.

[SyroMalankara]

EagleWatch or any other Marthoma (the community in Communion with the Anglicans, and Church of South/North India) member - I would value a response from you. Thank you in advance.

[mathewjoseph]

One fact is that Mar Thoma church is one of the fastest growing churces in Kerala in terms of institutions. Earlier it was the catholic church. Now government and political parties are trying to destroy or sideline the catholic church. This was observed when the Communist party state secretary met the Mar Thoma church head and previous head. After that the Mar Thoma head met with the Chief minister.
As far as I know, Mar Thoma church do not give importance to Mother mary.
May I share my life experiences.
Up to 20 years old, I was grown in my home. It was very old house 200 years old, not much facilities. Always there were quarrels in my house. Like all other catholics, we had rosary all days evening. There was much anrachy and unhappiness in my life during that period.
I went for a bible convention conducted by Chittoor team in my nearby town. There one father talked on Mother mary. He talked about a priest Fr George Manackal who left the catholic church because of giving importance to Mother mary. In the convention the Father told about Mary and her importance. He said he had no benefits and no hazards in his life because of his prayer to Mother mary.
Then I found that the protestants and Pentecostal churches do not give importance to mary. They use the prayers to Holy spirit much. I found they have much economic growth compared to catholics.
Any way I bought a small prayer book from the convention centre containing some prayers and also rosary. All the prayers are to Jesus, Holy spirit and some to Mother mary. I started praying all the prayers in that book once a day except rosary. Rosary was there in my home every evening. After reading the prayers my mind was filled with happiness and I built much confidence. After some months, I found there is much prosperity in my home. We had new house, jobs, happiness everything.
Then to our discussion. I found there are a number of sayings on mother mary during Syro malankara or Syriac orthodox mass. In the beginning of the mass, the priest says "Mother mary who delivered you.......", Then in the next song there is mention on mother mary, "nin maathaavu visudhnmar.......". The nat the beginning of gospel, priest says, "you who got flesh from Virgin mary...". Then again in the mass there are some mentions on mary. Thus here there is much importance given to mother mary. I don't know any thing on other prayers in other occassions. There may be much importance to mary.
You compare my life experiences with this, then mar thoma church. My question is that whether mar thoma church is right in such cases.

[SyroMalankara]

Any Marthoma members interested to post their perspective?