Health care- what's this guy supposed to do? - Page 2

Charlotte408 · #16 Dec 9, '09, 10:10 am

Again, in answer the the OP main thread question refer to my post. People have the responsiblity to prepare for these types of things, however- s**t happens. And, technically you are all preparing .... YOUR tax dollars are going into this welfare fund, its YOUR money YOUR entitled to. Dudes got 5 years of his own hard earned money coming back to him...go and get it.

pathia · #17 Dec 9, '09, 10:19 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arwen037

Did you have a good job as a manager? And own a nice house? It's my understanding that you haven't, so you can't compare the two situations. The question was asked, "What's this guy supposed to do." "This guy" made his bed, he has to sleep in it. It sounds like he had the ability to save and prepare, but he chose not to.

I'm sorry you've had a bad life, but you can't excuse everyone else's irresponsibility because of it.

So he's supposed to be homeless, jobless, just like me now? He's getting what he deserves, due to random chance? I don't follow your point. If I didn't deserve my situation, than no one else does either.

Charlotte408 · #18 Dec 9, '09, 10:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathia

So he's supposed to be homeless, jobless, just like me now? He's getting what he deserves, due to random chance? I don't follow your point. If I didn't deserve my situation, than no one else does either.

DEAR- its not that you deserve anything, its just LIFE. Thats like arguing why God lets people suffer in this world. NO ONE DESERVES a hard life, but sometimes thats the life you get, and if you dont approach your predicaments pro-actively, then you have no one else but yourself to blame for the end result.

And its not RANDOM chance that he's in the situtation that he's in. A series of events took place that landed him there. There are alternatives and services available for those proactively seeking them. I have no pity for people that would rather sit and wallow in their problems.

aspawloski4th · #19 Dec 9, '09, 2:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathia

So he's supposed to be homeless, jobless, just like me now? He's getting what he deserves, due to random chance? I don't follow your point. If I didn't deserve my situation, than no one else does either.

What she is saying is the man in question should of been prepared for everything! So if a meteor falls on you its your fault for not preparing for it by not being in the way. Funny thing I keep prepared for severe weather in my house and she says I shouldnt have the very thing that best keeps me prepared for severe weather, a TV.

aspawloski4th · #20 Dec 9, '09, 2:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlotte408

DEAR- its not that you deserve anything, its just LIFE. Thats like arguing why God lets people suffer in this world. NO ONE DESERVES a hard life, but sometimes thats the life you get, and if you dont approach your predicaments pro-actively, then you have no one else but yourself to blame for the end result.

And its not RANDOM chance that he's in the situtation that he's in. A series of events took place that landed him there. There are alternatives and services available for those proactively seeking them. I have no pity for people that would rather sit and wallow in their problems.

Ok you have established that there are things he can do, and I'm cool with that. Now state specifically what they are. Sometimes the adult imagination is limited.

Charlotte408 · #21 Dec 9, '09, 2:46 pm

please see my first post on this thread

aspawloski4th · #22 Dec 9, '09, 3:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlotte408

please see my first post on this thread

Iv'e read it. Seems vague to me.

St Francis · #23 Dec 9, '09, 3:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlotte408

please see my first post on this thread

The laws regarding all this vary from state to state. As i understand it the states are mandated as to how low they can go, but not to as high as they can go. The type of help you described in CA is probably not available everywhere, and may not be available in Ca for long, considering their budget problems.

St Francis · #24 Dec 9, '09, 3:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arwen037

Did you have a good job as a manager? And own a nice house? It's my understanding that you haven't, so you can't compare the two situations. The question was asked, "What's this guy supposed to do." "This guy" made his bed, he has to sleep in it. It sounds like he had the ability to save and prepare, but he chose not to.

I'm sorry you've had a bad life, but you can't excuse everyone else's irresponsibility because of it.

This is what upsets me--we don't know what he was doing. For all we know, he was putting his kids through college, you know, the colleges whose rates starting climbing like crazy some years ago? Most people do the best they can with what they've got, and I don't think it's fair to say this guy didn't just because things didn't turn out well for him.

And I am not saying that there aren't irresponsible people out there, it's just that a lot of people's lives are different when you know more about what's going on then when you just see the outside.

St Francis · #25 Dec 9, '09, 3:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlotte408

please see my first post on this thread

In addition, it seems to me that there are people in hospitals whose job it is to help patients figure out how to pay for stuff like this.

aspawloski4th · #26 Dec 9, '09, 3:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by St Francis

This is what upsets me--we don't know what he was doing. For all we know, he was putting his kids through college, you know, the colleges whose rates starting climbing like crazy some years ago? Most people do the best they can with what they've got, and I don't think it's fair to say this guy didn't just because things didn't turn out well for him.

And I am not saying that there aren't irresponsible people out there, it's just that a lot of people's lives are different when you know more about what's going on then when you just see the outside.

Wow you and I totally agree on this aspect!!

wade_a_wilson · #27 Dec 9, '09, 4:29 pm

I agree that totally random, unforeseeable things to good people every day. And that no one can be prepared for every possible situation.

But as I said before, that doesn't sound like what happened here. How does a person go from owning a large house, to not being able to pay COBRA premiums? He either chose not to, or he didn't actually "own" his house, the bank did. Again, that means he either chose the risk, or chose to live above his means (or both).

Also, I think you mis-understand insurance rate increases. Just because the part your employer has you pay went up 400% in a 3 year period, does mean that the actual premium your employer was paying went up that much. For example, If I had to pay nothing, then next year I was asked to pay $20/paycheck, that is an infinite increase. But all along my employer was paying about $10,000/year for my coverage.

I have been with the same employer for 12 years. In that time, the amount they pay has gone from $7000/year to $11,000/year. That's about 5-6% per year.

Arwen037 · #28 Dec 9, '09, 5:17 pm

My parents helped put me through college, but that doesn't mean they didn't have money set aside in case they lost their jobs. They make sure they can continue to pay all their bills if they lose their job. Not just expect the government to pick up the slack. Also, I think if it was college rates going up that caused the problem, I think that might have been mentioned. But no. The only thing mentioned is that he lost his job.

Several years ago my godmother got really made at her daughter when her daughter bought an expensive car. My godmother pointed out her daughter didn't have enough to pay the bills if she lost her job. Guess what, a few months later her daughter lost her job, so then she lost her car. She shouldn't have gotten that car in the first place because it was above her means. But people here seem to think that the government should have just paid for the car because it wasn't the daughter's fault.

St Francis · #29 Dec 9, '09, 7:17 pm

Arwen and Wade, all I am saying is that we don't know. We aren't privy to all the decisions he made over the years. Maybe he bought the house at a time when he didn't have to pay anything for his insurance and looked ahead at much lower college tuitions. Or maybe he had no family at all and partied all his money away. I'm just saying that all too often, people think that people in trouble get there by doing the wrong things, and if they had just had their acts together then they wouldn't be in the position they are in.

And FWIW, I am against the current plans for health insurance reform.

wade_a_wilson · #30 Dec 9, '09, 7:51 pm

St.Francis -

Yeah, I agree we don't really know this person, and some people really do everything right and still get destroyed.

But a lot of people do not act responsible. It's the old Ant & Grasshopper thing. That was really all I was touching on...

And I don't have any real idea how to fix this mess either...

Thanks,

-wade