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  #1  
Old Dec 15, '09, 8:52 am
prettylarge prettylarge is offline
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Default Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

I don't understand this. If God is all powerful and good, why doesn't he just destroy the devil? If the devil is the source of evil, and God lets the devil exist, isn't God supporting evil? It is as if by allowing the devil to exist, the devil is just another part of God. Does this make sense to you guys? What is the reasoning behind God not destroying the devil?
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Old Dec 15, '09, 8:58 am
Tantum ergo Tantum ergo is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

It's a good question.

If the devil were destroyed, would people still choose to sin? Yes. People choose freely--the devil doesn't make them do it. He certainly tempts, but temptation is no sin. Jesus was tempted but refused to listen to the temptation.

So. . .if the devil were 'destroyed' we'd have God taking one of His creations (because the devil was originally an angel), and annihilating him for making the 'wrong' decision. IOW, punishing him with non-existence for the wrong choice.

Is non-existence better than existence, even an existence that we find horrible (but which the devil, for all his spiritual agony, finds some sort of satisfaction in?) I don't think so. . .of course, we don't know the whole picture.

Somebody once told me that inventions and things which bettered society all came out because of 'evil' or dissatisfaction. If one is content, one is stagnating. One may be doing 'all right', but one isn't doing 'better'. . .and one could. If one is not content, one DOES make the effort to do better. . .

Food for thought?
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Old Dec 15, '09, 9:03 am
06convert 06convert is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

Depends on how you look at it.

I beleive one day Jesus will return and all sin and evil will be completely abolished. Why he doesn't do it right now? I don't know. I trust that he has a good reason though.

Another thought is that God created angels to me immortal. So satan simply can't be killed by design.

Anyone else have a theory?
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Old Dec 15, '09, 9:05 am
prettylarge prettylarge is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

Also, why would God send people to hell unless he was in cahoots with the devil? Do you know what I mean?
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Old Dec 15, '09, 9:08 am
prettylarge prettylarge is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

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Originally Posted by 06convert View Post
Depends on how you look at it.

I beleive one day Jesus will return and all sin and evil will be completely abolished. Why he doesn't do it right now? I don't know. I trust that he has a good reason though.

Another thought is that God created angels to me immortal. So satan simply can't be killed by design.

Anyone else have a theory?
OK, well even if satan cannot be killed (God is all powerful and can do whatever he wants really so I don't think this is true), couldn't God just contain him and make sure he has no interaction with humans and doesn't have hell? As I said before, if hell exists, then God reigns there too. I mean God is omniscient and is everywhere, so God would be in even hell, right?

If God sends people to hell, then he is working with the devil. You might as well call the devil another part of God.
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Old Dec 15, '09, 9:09 am
whm whm is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

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Originally Posted by prettylarge View Post
Also, why would God send people to hell unless he was in cahoots with the devil? Do you know what I mean?

This may seem like a fine point but it is an important distinction. God does not send people to hell, they choose it over him. He allows them their free will. If we did not have free will we would be incapable of love.
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Old Dec 15, '09, 9:21 am
Tantum ergo Tantum ergo is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

Also, the devil is not the source of evil, actually. He's certainly one of its chief supporters, but he was created good. . .so he can't be the source. He embraced it.

Evil, someone once said, is 'spoiled good. Evil can't exist on its own. You can't imagine, for example, any evil which isn't a spoiled good. As I said before, if you 'locked up the devil'. . .evil would still exist.

I do not think that in this world good can exist independently of evil. It will, of course, do so at the end of the world (perhaps a reason the world has to end) and while we cannot see its purpose, God must have a purpose. It must have been important enough to create creatures who could choose freely that the fact that once you had the choice, evil came in as a spoiled good, that the free choice was more important than a chance that evil would get chosen at times.
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Old Dec 15, '09, 9:25 am
prettylarge prettylarge is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

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This may seem like a fine point but it is an important distinction. God does not send people to hell, they choose it over him. He allows them their free will. If we did not have free will we would be incapable of love.
No one is at the gates of heaven and say "you know what, I think hell is a better fit for me actually." God doesn't allow them into heaven (according to the church), thus sending them to hell. You could make the argument that by doing bad things someone "chooses" hell, but given the choice between heaven or hell, no one would choose hell. So really they didn't choose, God did. That is like saying people in prison chose to go to prison. No, I can assure you that many people would have rather not gone to jail. So they didn't chose to go to jail, they just chose to do the thing that sent them to jail.

And there is one fatal flaw about that analogy...people that are breaking the law enough to go to jail almost always know that what they are doing could make them go to jail. Many people that are sent to hell (according to the church) don't even believe in God and don't know the (supposed) actions to their consequences.
  #9  
Old Dec 15, '09, 9:29 am
prettylarge prettylarge is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

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Originally Posted by Tantum ergo View Post
Also, the devil is not the source of evil, actually. He's certainly one of its chief supporters, but he was created good. . .so he can't be the source. He embraced it.

Evil, someone once said, is 'spoiled good. Evil can't exist on its own. You can't imagine, for example, any evil which isn't a spoiled good. As I said before, if you 'locked up the devil'. . .evil would still exist.

I do not think that in this world good can exist independently of evil. It will, of course, do so at the end of the world (perhaps a reason the world has to end) and while we cannot see its purpose, God must have a purpose. It must have been important enough to create creatures who could choose freely that the fact that once you had the choice, evil came in as a spoiled good, that the free choice was more important than a chance that evil would get chosen at times.
Well I think that free will is the source of evil really. So let me just set some things straight. If the devil does exist, and God contained him, there would still be evil. I agree with that. But why does God send people to the devil?
  #10  
Old Dec 15, '09, 10:00 am
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

Quote:
=06convert-Depends on how you look at it.

I beleive one day Jesus will return and all sin and evil will be completely abolished. Why he doesn't do it right now? I don't know. I trust that he has a good reason though.

Another thought is that God created angels to me immortal. So satan simply can't be killed by design.

Anyone else have a theory?

We know that “That God is in charge.” In fact everything that happens in our lives is either Caused by God, or Permitted by God for our possible sanctification and HIS Glorification. No matter how seemingly insignificant it is.

So the answer lies in the Divine Nature of God, and how God choose to Create us in His Very Nature. The difference being that God is Perfect, and we are very-imperfect. That too is God’s plan.

Gen. 1: 26 “Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”

How are we “like God?” We are like God who is “Spirit” in that God gifts each of us with a mind, a intellect, a freewill and a soul, which are all “Spiritual Things” and cannot come from our parents.

Further, humanity alone on earth are so gifted. Why is this?

Because these gifts are so precious in the Will of God that they are given with a very precise use in mind, which He tells us through His Divinely Inspired Words, in the Bible. This can be summed up as “Do good and avoid evil.” Psalm 34: 14 "Depart from evil, and do good;"

Romans 14: 11
“for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God."

Isaiah 43: 7 “every one who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." V. 21 the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.”

So why Satan? Because God gives us these Spiritual Gifts, He desires that we FREELY choose to prove our love for Him. So God gives us at the same time Satanic temptations towards evil, and an understanding of “good,” allowing us to freely choose, either the Good or the evil. It is our choice, our decision, and God provides sufficient grace for us to “choose the good” but also allows us to too say NO TO GOD and chose evil.

Evil exist so God who constantly is asking us: “How much do you love me?” and we can freely choose to say to God: “God I love you this much!” And then prove it by our choice.

Love and prayers,

Pat
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  #11  
Old Dec 15, '09, 10:23 am
Howardblk25 Howardblk25 is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

Quote:
Originally Posted by prettylarge View Post
Well I think that free will is the source of evil really. So let me just set some things straight. If the devil does exist, and God contained him, there would still be evil. I agree with that. But why does God send people to the devil?
I hear all this talk about God sending poeple to hell, and it distresses me a little. It sounds to me like you are making God out as this monster that does what ever he pleases, and doesn't care about how he does it. That to me is very wrong. God sent his only Son to reveal to us things about heaven, and to accually show us himself. In Jesus we see God. God could choose to make us love him by not letting us sin, however He wants us to have free will. One time when I was a young boy, this one kid was trying to make me like him, and even went as far as holding me under water to make me say that I would like him. I finally told him that I would like him just to get him off my back, then I just avoided him because I was afraid of him. Now what this guy was doing was taking away my free will. Did I like him. Not a chance. I was afraid of him. Now do you want God to do that. Offcouse not. God made us inteligent humanbeings so we could choose weather we want to do His will or not. By distroying the devil He would not be any better then all of the tyrants through history that would try to distroy anyone that wouldn't do what they wanted. I am going on longer then maybe I should, so the last thing I have to say is that God does not send poeple to hell, poeple, by not following thier consiunce that God gave them, are sending them selves to hell.
  #12  
Old Dec 15, '09, 10:25 am
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Brendan Brendan is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

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Originally Posted by prettylarge View Post
Also, why would God send people to hell unless he was in cahoots with the devil? Do you know what I mean?
God doesn't send people to Hell, people do that themselves. God simply allows them to experience the consequences of their actions.

It's called Free Will. We may choose Right or Wrong. Each has certain consequences.
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Old Dec 15, '09, 10:49 am
whm whm is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

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Originally Posted by prettylarge View Post
No one is at the gates of heaven and say "you know what, I think hell is a better fit for me actually." God doesn't allow them into heaven (according to the church), thus sending them to hell. You could make the argument that by doing bad things someone "chooses" hell, but given the choice between heaven or hell, no one would choose hell. So really they didn't choose, God did. That is like saying people in prison chose to go to prison. No, I can assure you that many people would have rather not gone to jail. So they didn't chose to go to jail, they just chose to do the thing that sent them to jail.

And there is one fatal flaw about that analogy...people that are breaking the law enough to go to jail almost always know that what they are doing could make them go to jail. Many people that are sent to hell (according to the church) don't even believe in God and don't know the (supposed) actions to their consequences.
You keep saying "according to the church". However your statements are not accurate. You would do better saying "according to what I think the Church is saying"

According to the Church - In order for a sin to be a mortal sin 3 conditions must be met 1. it must be a grave matter, 2. the person must know that it is a mortal sin and 3. the person must knowingly consent to the commit that sin.

This is how an individual chooses against God and for hell. Hell is being permanently disconnected from God.
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Old Dec 15, '09, 10:58 am
Tantum ergo Tantum ergo is offline
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

Nobody goes to hell unknowingly, and nobody goes to hell unwillingly. That is part of the real tragedy of hell --that there was always a chance and always a choice for the person, right up to the moment of death, where he or she could say "yes" to God instead of "No, I will not obey you, I wish to be god myself'.

I think you mistakenly think that God is out there just kind of mindlessly recording 'rule breaking' and that even if little Jimmy didn't know that he did something wrong, if it's 'against the rules' little Jimmy is a goner.

God is JUST. People forget that. They tend to think either that He is a cosmic marshmallow who will ultimately just get everybody thrown into heaven for a group hug, or they'll go completely in a 180 and think that he is some kind of soulless monster who has a million esoteric rules and if you break one--even unknowingly--you're doomed.

A JUST God would not only know that a person sinned, he would also know if the person knew that it was a sin. And mercy would say, "Even if the action was wrong, there was no knowledge". . .therefore, no 'mortal' sin, therefore forgiveness.
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Old Dec 15, '09, 10:58 am
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Default Re: Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

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You keep saying "according to the church". However your statements are not accurate. You would do better saying "according to what I think the Church is saying"

According to the Church - In order for a sin to be a mortal sin 3 conditions must be met 1. it must be a grave matter, 2. the person must know that it is a mortal sin and 3. the person must knowingly consent to the commit that sin.

This is how an individual chooses against God and for hell. Hell is being permanently disconnected from God.
If you commit a mortal sin do you automatically go to hell? Anyway, by those standards, atheists are not committing mortal sin because they do not know what they are doing is wrong. If you don't believe that God exists, then how could you know that it is wrong to believe that?

People aren't choosing hell, just as prisoners don't choose religion. Judges and juries send people to jail, not the prisoner themselves.
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