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  #1  
Old Dec 16, '09, 10:48 am
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Lion of Narnia Lion of Narnia is offline
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Default Book of Common Prayer

As Peter Kreeft put it in The Snakebite Letters (a Catholic spin on Screwtape), a slightly revised Book of Common Prayer would be a fantastic way to sort out the liturgical mess in US Catholic dioceses.
  #2  
Old Dec 16, '09, 12:34 pm
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

Peter Kreeft makes several errors in his Snakebite Letters, such as claming that those who came up with the Pauline Missal were "homosexual, at least in orientation."
  #3  
Old Dec 16, '09, 12:45 pm
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion of Narnia View Post
As Peter Kreeft put it in The Snakebite Letters (a Catholic spin on Screwtape), a slightly revised Book of Common Prayer would be a fantastic way to sort out the liturgical mess in US Catholic dioceses.
The Book of Divine Worship is a slightly revised version of the BCP; Rite I of the 1979 Book. The 1928 Book would have been better.

GKC
  #4  
Old Dec 17, '09, 8:47 am
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Lion of Narnia Lion of Narnia is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

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Originally Posted by bpbasilphx View Post
Peter Kreeft makes several errors in his Snakebite Letters, such as claming that those who came up with the Pauline Missal were "homosexual, at least in orientation."
I think the quote (from memory) was more like "the reason there are so many limp-wristed liturgies is there are so many limp-wristed liturgists"--course Kreeft is hardly alone in recognition of the gay-clique "lavender mafia" (dissident Fr. Andrew Greeley) or the claim of a largely gay US priesthood from Gary Wills (ultra-liberal lay dissident if not even heretic)
  #5  
Old Dec 17, '09, 9:09 am
shawnbm shawnbm is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

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Originally Posted by GKC View Post
The Book of Divine Worship is a slightly revised version of the BCP; Rite I of the 1979 Book. The 1928 Book would have been better.

GKC

I read through parts of it yesterday and was pleased to see how much of the BCP has been left intact by Rome. There were the necessary changes, of course, but it pleases me to think there will be Anglicans in communion with the See of Peter praying the Mass in the beautiful language of the BCP which I enjoyed most of my life before converting to Catholicism. I shall have to seek one of these churches out someday to listen again to the lovely propers, prayers and collects that are so rich in the Anglican tradition. Pax tecum and may you have a reflective and meaningful Advent.
  #6  
Old Dec 17, '09, 10:44 am
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

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Originally Posted by shawnbm View Post
I read through parts of it yesterday and was pleased to see how much of the BCP has been left intact by Rome. There were the necessary changes, of course, but it pleases me to think there will be Anglicans in communion with the See of Peter praying the Mass in the beautiful language of the BCP which I enjoyed most of my life before converting to Catholicism. I shall have to seek one of these churches out someday to listen again to the lovely propers, prayers and collects that are so rich in the Anglican tradition. Pax tecum and may you have a reflective and meaningful Advent.

Thank you. The thought pleases me, too. And I suspect that the current situation will result in perhaps even a better adaptation of the Anglican liturgy.


GKC

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  #7  
Old Dec 17, '09, 10:50 am
shawnbm shawnbm is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

I like to think of that being the case, GKC. By the way, I like your title after your name. I said for years that I considered myself an Anglo-Catholic and loved explaining it to both Episcopalian and Catholic *as well as Eastern Orthodox) folks who had trouble grasping what that meant. I now am simply a Catholic, but will always maintain by Anglican affections. By the way, I have always enjoyed your posts. Take care.
  #8  
Old Dec 17, '09, 11:34 am
Gerry Hunter Gerry Hunter is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

It is indeed a liturgical loss to English speaking Catholics that the Church in England left the Church to become the Church of England. Most all of the creative literary effort in English liturgy was thereafter channeled in a Protestant direction, and it is impossible not to note that the results were, in some cases, breathtakingly beautiful.

Given the liturgical abominations which have emanated from the erstwhile "spirit of Vatican II," there is work to be done in English Catholic liturgy, but unfortunately no Catholic legacy of excellence in English to draw upon. In that regard, the people who join the Church from Anglican backgrounds are very well positioned to offer immediate help in this area.

It has been instructive to observe how Anglicans who have turned from Christian truths have also turned from the Book of Common Prayer.

Blessings,

Gerry
  #9  
Old Dec 17, '09, 12:41 pm
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnbm View Post
I like to think of that being the case, GKC. By the way, I like your title after your name. I said for years that I considered myself an Anglo-Catholic and loved explaining it to both Episcopalian and Catholic *as well as Eastern Orthodox) folks who had trouble grasping what that meant. I now am simply a Catholic, but will always maintain by Anglican affections. By the way, I have always enjoyed your posts. Take care.
You are very kind. Thank you.

GKC
  #10  
Old Dec 22, '09, 9:04 pm
gurneyhalleck1 gurneyhalleck1 is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

I'm just confused, shawn, why you say you're Catholic but have "episcopalian" on your religion by your screen name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnbm View Post
I like to think of that being the case, GKC. By the way, I like your title after your name. I said for years that I considered myself an Anglo-Catholic and loved explaining it to both Episcopalian and Catholic *as well as Eastern Orthodox) folks who had trouble grasping what that meant. I now am simply a Catholic, but will always maintain by Anglican affections. By the way, I have always enjoyed your posts. Take care.
  #11  
Old Dec 22, '09, 9:10 pm
gurneyhalleck1 gurneyhalleck1 is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

The Book of Common Prayer is absolutely a literary work of beauty and I treasured it for years. It has a verbage about it that is powerful in liturgical settings. But I would point out that there are great untruths in the Book of Common Prayer and teachings very contrary to the Catholic faith, especially in the 39 Articles that I would encourage anyone seeking catholicity to abandon...namely XI, XII, XXII, XXVIII...these are all very dangerous teachings IMO. The people in Anglicanism worldwide, especially in the Episcopal Church, who have fallen deep into sin have done so because they have abandoned the Gospel more than the BOCP. They have abandoned Christ altogether these heretics who extoll the virtues of Katharine Jefforts-Schiori and her ilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry Hunter View Post
It is indeed a liturgical loss to English speaking Catholics that the Church in England left the Church to become the Church of England. Most all of the creative literary effort in English liturgy was thereafter channeled in a Protestant direction, and it is impossible not to note that the results were, in some cases, breathtakingly beautiful.

Given the liturgical abominations which have emanated from the erstwhile "spirit of Vatican II," there is work to be done in English Catholic liturgy, but unfortunately no Catholic legacy of excellence in English to draw upon. In that regard, the people who join the Church from Anglican backgrounds are very well positioned to offer immediate help in this area.

It has been instructive to observe how Anglicans who have turned from Christian truths have also turned from the Book of Common Prayer.

Blessings,

Gerry
  #12  
Old Dec 23, '09, 7:39 am
shawnbm shawnbm is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by gurneyhalleck1 View Post
I'm just confused, shawn, why you say you're Catholic but have "episcopalian" on your religion by your screen name?

It is because I really don't know how to change it. Furthermore, I have not looked at my own whatever it is called and realized this until you let me know. I am now a Catholic (well, in RCIA) and will get confirmed on Holy Saturday at the Easter Vigil. Have a blessed Christmas.
  #13  
Old Dec 23, '09, 8:37 am
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Lion of Narnia Lion of Narnia is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by gurneyhalleck1 View Post
The Book of Common Prayer is absolutely a literary work of beauty and I treasured it for years. It has a verbage about it that is powerful in liturgical settings. But I would point out that there are great untruths in the Book of Common Prayer and teachings very contrary to the Catholic faith, especially in the 39 Articles that I would encourage anyone seeking catholicity to abandon...namely XI, XII, XXII, XXVIII...these are all very dangerous teachings IMO. The people in Anglicanism worldwide, especially in the Episcopal Church, who have fallen deep into sin have done so because they have abandoned the Gospel more than the BOCP. They have abandoned Christ altogether these heretics who extoll the virtues of Katharine Jefforts-Schiori and her ilk.
Indeed, which why I did qualify in the OP "revised"
  #14  
Old Dec 23, '09, 9:34 am
bpbasilphx bpbasilphx is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion of Narnia View Post
I think the quote (from memory) was more like "the reason there are so many limp-wristed liturgies is there are so many limp-wristed liturgists"--course Kreeft is hardly alone in recognition of the gay-clique "lavender mafia" (dissident Fr. Andrew Greeley) or the claim of a largely gay US priesthood from Gary Wills (ultra-liberal lay dissident if not even heretic)
The gay Christians I know are of much stouter stuff than many would suspect. More than one gay Christian has confided these sentiments to me, "A Dignity convention couldn't help the Novus Ordo." ..."No gay man would ever have designed some of these vestments worn now."
  #15  
Old Dec 23, '09, 10:03 am
GKC GKC is offline
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Default Re: Book of Common Prayer

Speaking of the primary author of the original BCP, " He had one sincere interest, an exercise in which he was supreme, the construction of English prose. We owe to his pen as fine as English as has ever been written".

Belloc, speaking of Cranmer (the silver-tongued schismatic as we call him), HOW THE REFORMATION HAPPENED, chap II, p.104.

In all my years as an Anglican, I've never seen one reference to the Articles, in a normative sense. There is a reason for that. But then, I also pick my company carefully.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus








Quote:
Originally Posted by gurneyhalleck1 View Post
The Book of Common Prayer is absolutely a literary work of beauty and I treasured it for years. It has a verbage about it that is powerful in liturgical settings. But I would point out that there are great untruths in the Book of Common Prayer and teachings very contrary to the Catholic faith, especially in the 39 Articles that I would encourage anyone seeking catholicity to abandon...namely XI, XII, XXII, XXVIII...these are all very dangerous teachings IMO. The people in Anglicanism worldwide, especially in the Episcopal Church, who have fallen deep into sin have done so because they have abandoned the Gospel more than the BOCP. They have abandoned Christ altogether these heretics who extoll the virtues of Katharine Jefforts-Schiori and her ilk.
 

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