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  #1  
Old Jan 14, '10, 4:48 pm
Tamsulosin Tamsulosin is offline
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Default Remember I will be with you till the end of time

What does Jesus mean? Wouldn't be Jesus forever with those people that are allowed in Heaven, like the apostles?.So why then till the end of time and not for eternity? Time is a man made measure.Please help me understand this.Thanks ,Tam
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  #2  
Old Jan 14, '10, 5:02 pm
StrawberryJam StrawberryJam is offline
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Default Re: Remember I will be with you till the end of time

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Originally Posted by Tamsulosin View Post
What does Jesus mean? Wouldn't be Jesus forever with those people that are allowed in Heaven, like the apostles?.So why then till the end of time and not for eternity? Time is a man made measure.Please help me understand this.Thanks ,Tam
There is no end to time. He's saying he will be with them for eternity.

Hope that helps.
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  #3  
Old Jan 14, '10, 8:25 pm
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Remember I will be with you till the end of time

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Originally Posted by Tamsulosin View Post
What does Jesus mean? Wouldn't be Jesus forever with those people that are allowed in Heaven, like the apostles?.So why then till the end of time and not for eternity? Time is a man made measure.Please help me understand this.Thanks ,Tam
Unlike in English, 'until' in Hebrew and Greek has a broader usage. "Until the consummation of the age" is an expression which does NOT mean 'up until the age's end; after that I won't be with you anymore' but rather, 'even unto, even after the end of time'.
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Old Jan 14, '10, 8:31 pm
StrawberryJam StrawberryJam is offline
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Default Re: Remember I will be with you till the end of time

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Originally Posted by patrick457 View Post
Unlike in English, 'until' in Hebrew and Greek has a broader usage. "Until the consummation of the age" is an expression which does NOT mean 'up until the age's end; after that I won't be with you anymore' but rather, 'even unto, even after the end of time'.
And the ages of ages.

I can't remember the glory be now and its a really simple one. Until the ages of ages is used in Divine Liturgy, but its, as it was then, is now and ever shall be?
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Old Jan 14, '10, 8:53 pm
StrawberryJam StrawberryJam is offline
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Default Re: Remember I will be with you till the end of time

I found this for you on accident, scroll down to the part where it says "fundamentalist arguments" And, you will see the word Until, and till used in other places in the bible too.

Very interesting stuff!

http://www.catholic.com/library/Bret...f_the_Lord.asp
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  #6  
Old Jan 14, '10, 9:45 pm
Mintaka Mintaka is offline
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Default Re: Remember I will be with you till the end of time

In English, "until" tends to imply "this didn't happen until this time, and then it did".

But that's not the sense the Bible uses, in the Hebrew or Greek books. "Until" only means what it says -- "up to X time, this had not happened".

Jesus had already told the disciples all about His upcoming activities after the end of the world and the Last Judgment. He was now telling them what was going to happen after His Ascension into Heaven -- and that just because He was going away, that didn't mean that He wasn't going to be with them. He'd previously told them all about "I am the Vine, you are the branches". He was just confirming that to comfort them.
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Old Jan 14, '10, 10:37 pm
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Remember I will be with you till the end of time

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Originally Posted by StrawberryJam View Post
And the ages of ages.

I can't remember the glory be now and its a really simple one. Until the ages of ages is used in Divine Liturgy, but its, as it was then, is now and ever shall be?
The Eastern version literally runs like (in English): "Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit; and now and always, and to the ages of ages."
The Latin version is (literally): "...as it was in the beginning, and now and always, and to the ages of ages."

The Greek eis tous aionas ton aionon and the Latin in saecula saeculorum are rendered literally here - these come from a Semitic expression (Hebrew le'olam olamim) essentially meaning "forever and ever". Sometimes olam/aion/saeculum is rendered as "world" - which explains why the traditional version of the Gloria Patri has the odd (to modern ears) "world without end", and why in the KJV Jesus promises to be with His followers "even unto the end of the world".
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Old Jan 15, '10, 7:34 am
grannymh grannymh is offline
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Default Re: Remember I will be with you till the end of time

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Originally Posted by Tamsulosin View Post
What does Jesus mean? Wouldn't be Jesus forever with those people that are allowed in Heaven, like the apostles?.So why then till the end of time and not for eternity? Time is a man made measure.Please help me understand this.Thanks ,Tam
The operative word is "I" Jesus, Himself. Thus, this quote is in reference to the Catholic Eucharist.

Note that the whole passage, Matthew 28: 16-20, takes place after the Resurrection. It is sometimes called the Great Commission or the Commissioning of the Disciples. Verse 20 is "teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." (See John 6:1-71, as the discourse for Jesus being with us.)

Remember that there are two kinds of time, temporal and eternal. They are not in opposition to one another. The difference is that temporal ceases, eternal continues.

A related passage, regarding Jesus being with us, is John 14: 15-21 which is part of the Last Supper discourses. "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you." These verses are typical in that different layers of meaning coincide. The coming of the Holy Spirit coincides with the continual presence of Jesus in His Church. Jesus present then leads to His presence now in the Catholic Eucharist. Our temporal presence on this earth looks forward to the promised presence with God for eternity.

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  #9  
Old Jan 15, '10, 8:34 am
inkaneer inkaneer is offline
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Default Re: Remember I will be with you till the end of time

I have always regarded this passage which includes the Great Commission as Jesus giving the church its marching orders that they [the Apostles] were to go out and spread the Gospel but that they would not be alone because Jesus would not leave them. He would remain with them and His Church until the end of the age. The age would be the age of the church or church age and that would end with the Second Coming of Christ. So Jesus is still with His church and will remain so.
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  #10  
Old Jan 15, '10, 9:06 am
Tamsulosin Tamsulosin is offline
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Default Re: Remember I will be with you till the end of time

It is the word "end" that confuses me.(eternity has no end or beginning)The explanation of being till the end of the Church , before the second coming of Christ eases my problem a little.
A previous poster's explanation of the meaning of the word "until" or "till"that differs from the English meaning, sort of solves the problem.
Thank you,Tam
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  #11  
Old Jan 15, '10, 9:47 am
grannymh grannymh is offline
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Default Re: Remember I will be with you till the end of time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamsulosin View Post
It is the word "end" that confuses me.(eternity has no end or beginning)The explanation of being till the end of the Church , before the second coming of Christ eases my problem a little.
A previous poster's explanation of the meaning of the word "until" or "till"that differs from the English meaning, sort of solves the problem.
Thank you,Tam
Try not to look at the words "end" or "time" as singular ideas unrelated to the rest of Catholicism. There are two kinds of time. They operate along side of each other. They are not fighting each other for some kind of singular meaning. There is no "mutually exclusive or" involved.

Temporal time will cease, therefore there will be an end. Question -- Is God's existence limited to our temporal time?

Blessings,
granny

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