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  #1  
Old Jan 24, '10, 11:09 pm
zataran851 zataran851 is offline
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Default obligation to rebuke

i have read that you are susposed to at least attempt to correct someone if they are commiting a sin, to be safe from being held responsible. However at what point are you required to correct, especially if they are not of the same faith, but are familiar with "the rules" regarding the action.

i understand that you are susposed to try anyway, however, the result should not be worse than not trying i would think?
these stipulations also apply:

1. i know they would know it is considered sinful,
2. i know their choice about it is *likely* not going to change anytime soon. especially by my comment about it.
3. talking about it would cause a heated debate, and leave both parties raw. and closed off lines of communication which would defeat any chance of evangalization by anyone.
4. *i would be in serious violation of a promise to even disclose knowledge, of shuch. (as i am not even susposed to be privy to the knowledge) and further the party being rebuked has knows i could not know about it! mentioning it would cause major violations of trust with multiple parties as they were not to disclose it either! [not a priest]

the end result of the above. would be not only be unfavorable change in relation with multiple parties but also likely further increase resistance to change, (which is contrary to the whole goal of Rebuking).

what are the guidelines for determining the requirements of rebuking as the church teaches and as listed in the gospel, given the circumstances.
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  #2  
Old Jan 25, '10, 12:39 am
Michael1985 Michael1985 is offline
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Default Re: obligation to rebuke

We should only correct people out of love, all sin hurts God, ourselves and our neighbour. If we don't want the person to hurt themselves we should tell them.

I don't think we can ever assume that someone won't change we never know that. This attitude is one that puts many people off speaking the truth.

BUT correction must always be done with the greatest gentleness and love otherwise it will have no effect.
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  #3  
Old Jan 26, '10, 9:20 pm
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
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Default Re: obligation to rebuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by zataran851 View Post
i have read that you are susposed to at least attempt to correct someone if they are commiting a sin, to be safe from being held responsible. However at what point are you required to correct, especially if they are not of the same faith, but are familiar with "the rules" regarding the action.

i understand that you are susposed to try anyway, however, the result should not be worse than not trying i would think?
these stipulations also apply:

1. i know they would know it is considered sinful,
2. i know their choice about it is *likely* not going to change anytime soon. especially by my comment about it.
3. talking about it would cause a heated debate, and leave both parties raw. and closed off lines of communication which would defeat any chance of evangalization by anyone.
4. *i would be in serious violation of a promise to even disclose knowledge, of shuch. (as i am not even susposed to be privy to the knowledge) and further the party being rebuked has knows i could not know about it! mentioning it would cause major violations of trust with multiple parties as they were not to disclose it either! [not a priest]

the end result of the above. would be not only be unfavorable change in relation with multiple parties but also likely further increase resistance to change, (which is contrary to the whole goal of Rebuking).

what are the guidelines for determining the requirements of rebuking as the church teaches and as listed in the gospel, given the circumstances.
it is called fraternal correction

Fraternal correction regarding grave matters...

it can be at times required...and at other times recommended....at other times to be omitted...

the promise:

unless there is a serious reason which would make the promise null....one should keep ones promise (if it is good etc). you know like the person is going to rob a bank or kill themselves or are molesting someone.....then no of course one can break the promise...

again about fraternal correction


one aspect--

fraternal correction....in general one can say that one does not have to do so if one has not real hope of change...or if one foresees that it will make the matter worse....

which is sounds like to me from what you say....

PS there is more to fraternal correction ..but that answers your question i think.
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  #4  
Old Jan 26, '10, 11:41 pm
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Claire from DE Claire from DE is offline
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Default Re: obligation to rebuke

If you perceive that talking to them about the sin will only make them more resistant to change and would make matters worse all around, you should keep quiet. Love them, pray for them, offer small sacrifices for them if you are led to do so. God bless you for caring about them.
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  #5  
Old Jul 27, '10, 9:17 am
Geremia Geremia is offline
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Default Re: obligation to rebuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire from DE View Post
If you perceive that talking to them about the sin will only make them more resistant to change and would make matters worse all around, you should keep quiet. Love them, pray for them, offer small sacrifices for them if you are led to do so. God bless you for caring about them.
Yes, when all the conditions of fraternal correction do not apply, you can always practice the spiritual work of mercy of bearing wrongs patiently.
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  #6  
Old Jul 27, '10, 7:22 pm
Edmundus1581 Edmundus1581 is offline
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Default Re: obligation to rebuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire from DE View Post
If you perceive that talking to them about the sin will only make them more resistant to change and would make matters worse all around, you should keep quiet.
Thankyou! That is the best summary of this difficult topic I've seen!
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  #7  
Old Jul 27, '10, 7:33 pm
excubitor excubitor is offline
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Default Re: obligation to rebuke

In the past Catholic's were faithful to remind their apostate family members who had tardily forsaken attendance at Mass and had taken up some kind of disobedience in their life that they were heading for the fires of Hell. In those days Catholic would tremble at the thought of going to Hell. Unfortunately, today the disobedient and apostate Catholic is not warned about the perils of Hell and there is no fear of the Lord in our communion.

I believe that if we are silent and fail to correct our Catholic brother and warn him of the consequences of his actions that we will be consider compliant in their actions.

This advice should not extend to our treatment of non-Catholics. But as Catholics we are all our "brothers keeper" we are all in this together as one body. Grave sin does not just effect the person who commits the sin, it is an awful wound to the church as well. How does the human body feel if a small wound is made, let alone a member severed, let alone the divine body of Christ. It is also a grave wound to us in particular because our brother is close to us and we care about them and value their company and fellowship.

Naturally to rebuke does not mean that we rant and rave and froth at the mouth and bring down fire and brimstone from heaven.
But to say nothing and just quietly pray is not really good enough in my opinion. Our silence can be interpreted as tacit acceptance by the sinful person and that would be an awful situation for us in the long term.

On the other hand if you know that the sinner knows what your views are on the subject, then there is no point pestering and going on and on about it like a broken record. So of course, wisdom and discernment is required.
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