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  #1  
Old Jan 27, '10, 8:11 am
Sonny1954 Sonny1954 is offline
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Default The Fate of Miscarried Babies

If this subject has already been discussed, then I apologize in advance.

My mother experienced two miscarriages. Both occurred very early in the pregnancies. I've always been curious about my would-have-been siblings. What is Church teaching on the fate of such children? Do they go to Hell because they die with original sin on their souls, or do they go to Heaven because they could not have personal sins on their souls. Or does the Church say that we simply do not know?

I mean NO OFFENSE with the following observation. If these two miscarrieds went to Heaven and presumably grew into some sort of maturity there, in God's presence, then didn't their lives turn out better than any one of us who were successfully born? My "siblings" NEVER endured suffering, sorrow, rejection, failure, hatefulness, belittlement, lovelessness or any of the things that characterize the lives of MANY in this world. Instead, they've spent their whole lives in God's loving presence. To me, that sounds like a real blessing.

Please note: I am NOT NOT NOT talking about deliberate abortions. I just wonder if anyone here knows Church teaching in this area.

Thank You.
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  #2  
Old Jan 27, '10, 8:31 am
kage_ar kage_ar is offline
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

When all else fails, go to the Catechism:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a1.htm#1261

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.
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  #3  
Old Jan 27, '10, 8:42 am
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

Here is my article of speculative theology on this subject:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/RCC/mystical-baptism.htm
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  #4  
Old Jan 27, '10, 10:09 am
DJgang DJgang is offline
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny1954 View Post

Please note: I am NOT NOT NOT talking about deliberate abortions. I just wonder if anyone here knows Church teaching in this area.

Thank You.

I am curious. Why are you not talking about babies who have been aborted? Do you not believe that they too are in the arms of our Lord just like your siblings?

(please don't take offense for me asking ... and I don't want to assume, so I ask)
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  #5  
Old Jan 27, '10, 6:29 pm
Rence Rence is offline
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJgang View Post
I am curious. Why are you not talking about babies who have been aborted? Do you not believe that they too are in the arms of our Lord just like your siblings?

(please don't take offense for me asking ... and I don't want to assume, so I ask)
Because she doesn't want to stir up another pro-choice/pro-life drawma. There will be an influx of both parties here to hyjack her thread. Tis why.

I understand your question Sonny. My mom had a miscarriage when I was a teenager. It was probably her eighth week? Anyway, she was able to retrieve and preserve the aborted embryo. When she was released from the hospital, she brought it to the parish priest who baptised the baby, "Jo" because we didn't know if it was a girl or a boy. Then she tucked it in the pocket of my grandfather's burial suit (he was dying at the time of the miscarriage), and buried the baby along with my grandfather. I often wonder about Jo.

Anyway, as long as I can remember, I was taught that if I ever had a miscarriage, to make sure the baby is baptised and buried. So I was surprised to read on a thread here that a priest isn'st supposed to baptise a deceased baby I haven't had time to research it though. Sooooo, since there is a soul involved since the moment of conception...I wonder if we're allowed to baptise a baby in vitro. Hmmm...I'll have to research that when I have time

But I do think you'll see your siblings again
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  #6  
Old Jan 27, '10, 6:54 pm
Prodigal_Son Prodigal_Son is online now
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJgang View Post
I am curious. Why are you not talking about babies who have been aborted? Do you not believe that they too are in the arms of our Lord just like your siblings?

(please don't take offense for me asking ... and I don't want to assume, so I ask)
What she meant, I think was that she wasn't talking about it being better to kill babies in utero because they were going to Heaven. And rightly so -- we are not qualified to choose who lives or dies.
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  #7  
Old Jan 27, '10, 6:56 pm
Prodigal_Son Prodigal_Son is online now
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rence View Post
I wonder if we're allowed to baptise a baby in vitro.
Sounds ... messy.
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  #8  
Old Jan 27, '10, 7:20 pm
Seatuck Seatuck is offline
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rence View Post
Because she doesn't want to stir up another pro-choice/pro-life drawma. There will be an influx of both parties here to hyjack her thread. Tis why.

I understand your question Sonny. My mom had a miscarriage when I was a teenager. It was probably her eighth week? Anyway, she was able to retrieve and preserve the aborted embryo. When she was released from the hospital, she brought it to the parish priest who baptised the baby, "Jo" because we didn't know if it was a girl or a boy. Then she tucked it in the pocket of my grandfather's burial suit (he was dying at the time of the miscarriage), and buried the baby along with my grandfather. I often wonder about Jo.

Anyway, as long as I can remember, I was taught that if I ever had a miscarriage, to make sure the baby is baptised and buried. So I was surprised to read on a thread here that a priest isn'st supposed to baptise a deceased baby I haven't had time to research it though. Sooooo, since there is a soul involved since the moment of conception...I wonder if we're allowed to baptise a baby in vitro. Hmmm...I'll have to research that when I have time

But I do think you'll see your siblings again

We can only baptize a baby in vitro if there is a surgical procedure going on and the womb is opened. Can't be done otherwise.
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  #9  
Old Jan 27, '10, 7:23 pm
Seatuck Seatuck is offline
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny1954 View Post
If this subject has already been discussed, then I apologize in advance.

My mother experienced two miscarriages. Both occurred very early in the pregnancies. I've always been curious about my would-have-been siblings. What is Church teaching on the fate of such children? Do they go to Hell because they die with original sin on their souls, or do they go to Heaven because they could not have personal sins on their souls. Or does the Church say that we simply do not know?

I mean NO OFFENSE with the following observation. If these two miscarrieds went to Heaven and presumably grew into some sort of maturity there, in God's presence, then didn't their lives turn out better than any one of us who were successfully born? My "siblings" NEVER endured suffering, sorrow, rejection, failure, hatefulness, belittlement, lovelessness or any of the things that characterize the lives of MANY in this world. Instead, they've spent their whole lives in God's loving presence. To me, that sounds like a real blessing.

Please note: I am NOT NOT NOT talking about deliberate abortions. I just wonder if anyone here knows Church teaching in this area.

Thank You.
The fate of a miscarried baby is no different than the fate of an aborted baby. The truth is we don't know for sure what happens to their souls. We are a hopeful people and the church position is that there is good reason to hope that they go to heaven or at least are in a place of natural happiness.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...nfants_en.html
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  #10  
Old Jan 28, '10, 5:02 am
Sonny1954 Sonny1954 is offline
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJgang View Post
I am curious. Why are you not talking about babies who have been aborted? Do you not believe that they too are in the arms of our Lord just like your siblings?

(please don't take offense for me asking ... and I don't want to assume, so I ask)
Two reasons One, I didn't want the explosive issue of abortion, and the politics thereof to hijack my question. Two, God only knows how many millions of fertilized eggs each year are "spontaneously aborted" by the body or never attach properly within the female body and flow out of the woman's body during her period.
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  #11  
Old Jan 28, '10, 5:08 am
Sonny1954 Sonny1954 is offline
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies(2nd part)

I am equally curious about the 2nd part of my question. Isn't it better for a human soul to live it's ENTIRE existence in God's Heavenly Kingdom than to have to spend the first 90 years stuck in this vale of tears? Miscarrieds never have to experience this horrible earthly existence. I envy them for that. Perhaps no one else does.
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  #12  
Old Jan 28, '10, 2:16 pm
vera dicere vera dicere is offline
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

My mum had a miscarriage at about 10 weeks, a few months after I was adopted. She always spoke of that foetus as a he and even named him. I've often wondered about Tom and what his place in our family would have been, and whether my younger sister would have been adopted.

I'd like to know where the idea that baptising and burrial of a miscaried embryo/foetus came from. The chances of a woman retrieving the child or even if she was aware of the pregnancy are slim. A friend of mine said she was sure she miscarried once, but she wasn't 100%, wasn't even sure she was pregnant, she said she just had a much heavier flow three weeks after her period had been due. She hadn't had a preg. test at that point, and there are some instances when a woman can miss a period and then have a heavier one a few weeks later without her ever being pregnant.

As for their spiritual fate, I don't think the same God who sent His Son to die for us would condemn children to Hell. We have to accept God/Jesus to get into Heaven, a child who passes in the womb has not had the opportunity to do so. Even children who are born and pass haven't even chosen God and if they had, have they done so with full knowledge and understanding of what that means?

I've met Protestants who have told me that children of athiests who die early go to Hell. Children who have not accepted Jesus burn in the fires of Hell, doesn't matter if they were aborted or 5 years or 10 years.

Like I said, I don't think the same Lord who gave His Son for us, who welcomed little children would send them to eternal damnation.

I believe all children aborted, miscarried, or who die early before they can truly accept Jesus go to Heaven.
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  #13  
Old Jan 28, '10, 2:44 pm
vera dicere vera dicere is offline
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies(2nd part)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny1954 View Post
I am equally curious about the 2nd part of my question. Isn't it better for a human soul to live it's ENTIRE existence in God's Heavenly Kingdom than to have to spend the first 90 years stuck in this vale of tears? Miscarrieds never have to experience this horrible earthly existence. I envy them for that. Perhaps no one else does.
I can only offer my opinion on this, but I think its a catch 22.

On one hand you live without pain and suffering and sorrow et cetera, knowing only God and joy and the fullness that brings.

But on the other hand, living on earth, through suffering and pain and the ususal, we come to appreciate and love God as much as humanly possible. It makes it worth while.

It'd be like if you liked running. So you trained really hard, getting up every morning at 4am and working out for an hour at the gym and then running for three hours, eating right, sacrificing gluttonous activities and sweating, therefore, when you make it to the Olympics and win gold and break records all that hard work is worth it. But if you just take drugs and win, where is the sense of accomplishment?

There's no way we can ever be worthy of God. We accept Jesus' sacrifice as payment for our own sin, but its by hard work and sacrifice that we become just a little closer to truly appreciating how great God is.

But the tricky part of this "wouldn't it be better for the soul of the foetus..." is that I've seen pro-abortion christians use it to justify abortion. Well, they could use the same logic to kill anyone.
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  #14  
Old Jan 28, '10, 7:14 pm
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Annie B Annie B is offline
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Default Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny1954 View Post
If this subject has already been discussed, then I apologize in advance.

My mother experienced two miscarriages. Both occurred very early in the pregnancies. I've always been curious about my would-have-been siblings. What is Church teaching on the fate of such children? Do they go to Hell because they die with original sin on their souls, or do they go to Heaven because they could not have personal sins on their souls. Or does the Church say that we simply do not know?

I mean NO OFFENSE with the following observation. If these two miscarrieds went to Heaven and presumably grew into some sort of maturity there, in God's presence, then didn't their lives turn out better than any one of us who were successfully born? My "siblings" NEVER endured suffering, sorrow, rejection, failure, hatefulness, belittlement, lovelessness or any of the things that characterize the lives of MANY in this world. Instead, they've spent their whole lives in God's loving presence. To me, that sounds like a real blessing.

Please note: I am NOT NOT NOT talking about deliberate abortions. I just wonder if anyone here knows Church teaching in this area.

Thank You.
The baby may indeed have suffered in it's death, though it (I hate saying "it" but do not know what else to say) did not endure sorrow, rejection, failure, hatefulness, belittlement, lovelessness, etc.

Annie
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  #15  
Old Jul 13, '10, 3:48 pm
lostmommy lostmommy is offline
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Unhappy Re: The Fate of Miscarried Babies

I know that this post was made several months ago, but this a very personal issue for me. This is not a matter of a lost brother or sister for me, but the matter of a lost child. We had nothing to baptize. They could not retrieve the embryo. I am hoping to get some answers from my priest soon.

I think that the parents are often forgotten in this, and all the sorrow and grief that they face. My husband and I got little acknowledgment of our loss. We were told "We could try again" and "God does not make mistakes". Yet, there is this question of original sin and heaven with an unborn child.

I will post anything I learn from my pastor.
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