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View Poll Results: Under which set of circumstances would you agree to support reunion between the Catholic and Orthodo
Orthodox Churches interested in union with the Catholic Church must accept all essential Catholic teaching and beliefs. 41 48.24%
Orthodox Churches are fully accepted under no pre-conditions. 12 14.12%
The Catholic Church must accept all of the essential Orthodox teachings. 14 16.47%
The Catholics and the Orthodox will meet halfway. 14 16.47%
There should not be a union between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches because they are two different Churches. 4 4.71%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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  #346  
Old Nov 19, '10, 11:06 pm
countertenor countertenor is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Because some Latins think the the only legitimate spirituality is theirs.
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  #347  
Old Nov 19, '10, 11:12 pm
Gregory I Gregory I is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

*I smell heresy...*
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  #348  
Old Nov 20, '10, 1:20 am
sidbrown sidbrown is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alveus Lacuna View Post
Nobody is mentioning how difficult it can be to obtain an Orthodox divorce. They're not handed out like candy canes.
This would be a difference then with Catholic annulments. Most people who apply for the annulment in the USA, get it approved.
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  #349  
Old Nov 20, '10, 1:27 am
sidbrown sidbrown is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddarko View Post
I would like to see the Orthodox accept the indissolubility of marriage (no divorce) and correct it's teachings on birth control.
What percent of Catholics today in the USA follow the teaching of the Catholic Church on birth control? Why are the Muslims becoming stronger in Europe, if not the fact that they are having large families whereas Catholics are not. I read that Benjamin Franklin, who was not a Catholic, had seventeen brothers and sisters. Now at the local Catholic Church here, most families are quite a bit smaller than that. What would be the reason as to why Catholics are having smaller families in the USA and Europe today, whereas Benjamin Franklin, who was not a Catholic, had seventeen brothers and sisters? How many Catholics do you know who have seventeen brothers and sisters?
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  #350  
Old Nov 20, '10, 6:54 am
Seamus L Seamus L is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

I don't know why this topic is so popular with some people. It's not about to happen anytime soon, so why worry about it. I think it's pretty obvious that the Orthodox are very strongly against it, and I respect there position for seeing proposed union as being nothing more than a "we agree to disagree, but will still call ourselves one church" proposal.
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  #351  
Old Nov 20, '10, 8:53 am
Triciacat Triciacat is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddarko View Post
Second, yes, sin can be forgiven by God, BUT that does not mean you can get divorced??? What on earth does that even mean? Can I kill someone too? I mean, God is going to forgive me right? Maybe I should put an upper-bound on that, two kills allowed per life time
Glory To Jesus Christ!

I was making a direct quote. Had I written the sentence myself, I might have written that an important distinction is that when Christ teaches that marriage may not be dissolved that does not mean that He is stating that it DOES NOT occur. Free will is required. "The “not separate” is a divine request, as is “do not kill”. But man is free and can dissolve his marriage and kill his fellow man. In both cases he commits grievous sin." (N. Matsoukas, Dogmatic and Symbolic Theology, Thessalonica, 1988.)
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'for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.' (1 Cor. 14:33)
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  #352  
Old Nov 20, '10, 9:57 am
ddarko ddarko is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidbrown View Post
What percent of Catholics today in the USA follow the teaching of the Catholic Church on birth control? Why are the Muslims becoming stronger in Europe, if not the fact that they are having large families whereas Catholics are not. I read that Benjamin Franklin, who was not a Catholic, had seventeen brothers and sisters. Now at the local Catholic Church here, most families are quite a bit smaller than that. What would be the reason as to why Catholics are having smaller families in the USA and Europe today, whereas Benjamin Franklin, who was not a Catholic, had seventeen brothers and sisters? How many Catholics do you know who have seventeen brothers and sisters?
Ok this shows the biggest confusion even among Roman Catholics. What happens in the lives of the faithful and church's teachings can UNFORTUNATELY differ. The church's teachings are INFALLIBLE. But the church's members are FALLIBLE in following them.

So yes, unfortunately in the Western Catholics, divorce, premarital and extra marital sex, pornography, prostitution, same sex marriage, abortion are rampant. IT DOES NOT MEAN THESE THINGS ARE OK NOW!!!! It also CLEARLY does not mean that they are CATHOLIC CHURCH teachings now.

Just because most Catholics do it, DOES NOT make it the official Catholic teaching.

This is where you are going wrong my friend.

God Bless

Last edited by ddarko; Nov 20, '10 at 10:15 am.
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  #353  
Old Nov 20, '10, 10:04 am
ddarko ddarko is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triciacat View Post
Glory To Jesus Christ!

I was making a direct quote. Had I written the sentence myself, I might have written that an important distinction is that when Christ teaches that marriage may not be dissolved that does not mean that He is stating that it DOES NOT occur. Free will is required. "The “not separate” is a divine request, as is “do not kill”. But man is free and can dissolve his marriage and kill his fellow man. In both cases he commits grievous sin." (N. Matsoukas, Dogmatic and Symbolic Theology, Thessalonica, 1988.)
About Jesus's statements, NO. What are you really trying to say? Marriage is indissoluble but it occurs? How does that even make any logical sense? It's like saying two true propositions can't contradict each other but it occurs.... and as you might readily admit in that case, it is absurd. Therefore so is what you are saying.

Now just as the teachings of the church are AGAINST murder, so should it be against Divorce. Free will here just means that every one can sin. But that doesn't mean they can change the way things are by sinning. What you are saying is equivalent to saying, marriage is indissoluble but because I can divorce using my free will In short, you are reducing a super natural bond of the sacrament to something under your control. What going to be next? ''I am not eternal because I can find a way through science to destroy it"? I really don't know why you don't see that what you are saying is logically impossible to hold even as an Orthodox.

Also, giving an upper-bound on the number of times you can divorce is a joke. What next? Do you want to give an upperbound on the number of kills? the number of thefts? the number of times you can have sex with the same sex? How about a cap on the number of abortions? Like honestly, where does it stop?

So I really don't know where you are trying to go with this. Sins are forgiven, but that in no way means your church should put an upperbound on the number of times and let it happen.

God Bless

Last edited by ddarko; Nov 20, '10 at 10:23 am.
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  #354  
Old Nov 20, '10, 10:07 am
ddarko ddarko is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory I View Post
Listen here,

I was presenting their perspective, not saying I advocate it.

I am against artificial birthcontrol and divorce.

Plus why is a gung-ho Latin coming in here and demolishing legitimate Catholic spiritualities?
Hey,

I am not here to demolish other spiritualities. I am simply pointing out whats wrong.

What do you think I would do if I met a Sedevecantist? They share almost 99% of the Roman Catholic teachings. All that means is that they should easily be able to identify the errors in their thinking.

Same goes for the Orthodox. Their similarity with the Roman Church does not mean they can agree to disagree on conflicting issues like Divorce and Birth Control. One is right and the other is wrong.

God Bless
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  #355  
Old Nov 20, '10, 10:10 am
ddarko ddarko is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by countertenor View Post
Because some Latins think the the only legitimate spirituality is theirs.
If your church does allow Divorce and Birth Control, needless to state the nature of your church's spirituality anymore.

Those are grave sins and it would further mean that your church is leading the faithful astray.

God Bless
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  #356  
Old Nov 20, '10, 10:12 am
ddarko ddarko is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory I View Post
*I smell heresy...*
Yes, a supposedly "true" church saying it's ok to Divorce (refusing to accept Christ's direct words) and practice Birth Control, and leading the faithful astray is quiet a heresy indeed.

God Bless
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  #357  
Old Nov 20, '10, 11:10 am
Triciacat Triciacat is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddarko View Post
About Jesus's statements, NO. What are you really trying to say? Marriage is indissoluble but it occurs? How does that even make any logical sense? It's like saying two true propositions can't contradict each other but it occurs.... and as you might readily admit in that case, it is absurd. Therefore so is what you are saying.

Now just as the teachings of the church are AGAINST murder, so should it be against Divorce. Free will here just means that every one can sin. But that doesn't mean they can change the way things are by sinning. What you are saying is equivalent to saying, marriage is indissoluble but because I can divorce using my free will In short, you are reducing a super natural bond of the sacrament to something under your control. What going to be next? ''I am not eternal because I can find a way through science to destroy it"? I really don't know why you don't see that what you are saying is logically impossible to hold even as an Orthodox.

Also, giving an upper-bound on the number of times you can divorce is a joke. What next? Do you want to give an upperbound on the number of kills? the number of thefts? the number of times you can have sex with the same sex? How about a cap on the number of abortions? Like honestly, where does it stop?

So I really don't know where you are trying to go with this. Sins are forgiven, but that in no way means your church should put an upperbound on the number of times and let it happen.

God Bless
Unfortunately, I don't feel I can explain this any better than how I have already. Perhaps this page will assist you:

http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute...remarriage.htm

Yours in Christ,
Triciacat
__________________
'for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.' (1 Cor. 14:33)
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  #358  
Old Nov 20, '10, 11:28 am
ddarko ddarko is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triciacat View Post
Unfortunately, I don't feel I can explain this any better than how I have already. Perhaps this page will assist you:

http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute...remarriage.htm

Yours in Christ,
Triciacat
I understood you very clearly. And as I said before, you are making this overly complicated.

Bottom line is this, the Roman Catholic granting of the sacrament of marriage and the Orthodox might be different. But it is irrelevant to this matter here.

If we are talking about the same sacrament that Christ established as marriage, then your church is going against his words. Simple as that. Or are you trying to say the ''marriage'' in your church is not really a marriage to being with ?

The real absurdity of the web page you present is that at the end it says

"The Church has been faithful throughout the centuries to the principle referred to by Paul, that a second marriage is an aberration of the Christian statute. In this sense the orthodox doctrine confirms not only the “indissolubility” of marriage, but also its uniqueness. Every true marriage can be uniquely the “only” one."

Is this a joke? Orthodox allow remarriage.

Also, just because I am fallen, doesn't mean I can do anything. This is rather elementary. Is the Orthodox church willing to give an allowance on the kill count for it's members? No right? Doesn't that even sound absurd? So the same holds for marriage. If someone divorces, he has committed a sin. If he remarries it's even worse.

I really don't see much of a defense on that web page except trying to somehow make it look legit by mixing it with truths.

God Bless
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  #359  
Old Nov 20, '10, 11:36 am
Triciacat Triciacat is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddarko View Post
Or are you trying to say the ''marriage'' in your church is not really a marriage to being with ?
The link I posted explains what constitutes an Orthodox marriage.

Regards,
Triciacat
__________________
'for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.' (1 Cor. 14:33)
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  #360  
Old Nov 20, '10, 11:38 am
ddarko ddarko is offline
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Default Re: Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triciacat View Post
The link I posted explains what constitutes an Orthodox marriage.

Regards,
Triciacat
Thanks. That it does. But it is irrelevant to this discussion unless you are trying to say ''what we orthodox practice is not marriage as Christ instituted anyway''. In that case, well, anything goes

God Bless
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