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  #1  
Old Mar 4, '10, 5:44 pm
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Default How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

Feminists don't want women to be viewed as objects of sex or as sluts. The thing is, the pro-abortion feminists are so adamant about having the right to have an abortion, and I was thinking that since one can only get pregnant through sex, if they had an abortion, they obviously had sex. Why don't they see that having abortion can make women look like sluts?

To all those pro-life women here on CA, g'day!
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  #2  
Old Mar 4, '10, 6:42 pm
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

Because it is a mental disorder. They are against pornography but support women that participate in pornography. They want abortion because they see it as a way for women to have the ultimate power over life. Many are lesbians and therefore do not think about the way women are viewed if they are promiscuous. Early feminists were against abortion but modern feminists are in favor largely because of women like Margaret Sanger that argued for it to eliminate undesirable groups and for women to have no consequences for sex. It reduces humans to mere animals because it has not increased the respect that women get and many women are viewed as objects by men. Yet, this is called liberation.
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Old Mar 4, '10, 6:59 pm
flyingfish flyingfish is offline
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

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Originally Posted by Gift from God View Post
Feminists don't want women to be viewed as objects of sex or as sluts. The thing is, the pro-abortion feminists are so adamant about having the right to have an abortion, and I was thinking that since one can only get pregnant through sex, if they had an abortion, they obviously had sex. Why don't they see that having abortion can make women look like sluts?

To all those pro-life women here on CA, g'day!
I'm not following your logic.

Also, quite a few feminists would object to the term "slut" or another derogatory word being used to describe a woman who enjoys having casual sex, and would argue that women who make this choice should not be thought of as less or looked down on. They would probably think that the term "slut" is a word meant to keep women in submission to begin with
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  #4  
Old Mar 4, '10, 8:38 pm
ceciliatherese ceciliatherese is offline
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

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Originally Posted by mjs1987 View Post
Because it is a mental disorder. They are against pornography but support women that participate in pornography. They want abortion because they see it as a way for women to have the ultimate power over life. Many are lesbians and therefore do not think about the way women are viewed if they are promiscuous. Early feminists were against abortion but modern feminists are in favor largely because of women like Margaret Sanger that argued for it to eliminate undesirable groups and for women to have no consequences for sex. It reduces humans to mere animals because it has not increased the respect that women get and many women are viewed as objects by men. Yet, this is called liberation.
um... what? Do you know any pro-choice women? Here are a few reasons why people say they are pro-choice:

"I think I may be an odd duck. I'm Irish and Roman Catholic. I know that I could not ever have an abortion. I also know that I have no right to make that decision for someone else." - Beth, age 44, King of Prussia

"I am pro-choice because I believe that women should be treated with dignity and respect and that in order for women to be equal to men they need to have the right and the means to decide when and whether to bear a child." - Larry, age 51, Philadelphia

"I'm pro-choice because I am the only one who should determine the treatment of my body. I am pro-choice because a fetus is not a person, and therefore should have no bearing over a women's choice, health, or life course. I am pro-choice because no individual's religious beliefs should determine legislation." - Shoshana Rosen, age 22, Pittsburgh, Jewish

"As a mother of two precious daughters and a grandmother of one beautiful brand new granddaughter, I am committed to the absolute protection of choice for my loved ones and for all women. A woman's right to choose to carry a pregnancy or to not carry a pregnancy should be a decision that is hers to make. Young people should be provided with full and correct information regarding their personal health and wellness." - Nancy, age 61

"I am pro-choice because 77% of anti-choice leaders are men and 100% of them will never become pregnant." - Jamie, Harrisburg

"I am pro-choice because I believe that in a free society women can and must be trusted to make fundamental personal decisions. Anti-abortion laws cannot be enforced without allowing the government a totally intolerable level of intrusion into individual, private medical decisions and the doctor-patient relationship that would be incompatible with basic American values of liberty." - Peter Goldberger, Ardmore, ACLU of PA Board of Directors, VP of ACLU Greater Philadelphia Chapter, father of 3 daughters

"When my mother and my sisters and I attended the March for Women's Lives in 2004, my younger sister wondered why there were signs with pictures of coat hangers. She represents a younger generation of women who haven't had to worry about back-alley, botched abortions and their frightening consequences. I am pro-choice for all the future generations of women, so that they, too, may not know the shadowy horrors of a life without reproductive freedom." - Paula, Harrisburg

"Every woman has the right to control her own body and to determine when or whether to bear a child. Child bearing must always be by choice, not only for the sake of the mother but for the welfare of a wanted and nurtured infant. The hard-won right of choice in child-bearing by all women must be respected and protected." - Sonya

"I am pro-choice because women should have every opportunity to live the life they choose to live and because options allow each women to subscribe to her own religious and social morality." - Chelsea, age 22, Philadelphia

"The anti-choice messengers regularly remind me why I am pro-choice. Usually, those who are against us on reproductive freedom are white men, and when I see them, one word comes to mind. Patriarchy." - Andy, Harrisburg



(source: http://aclupa.blogspot.com/2007/01/w...ro-choice.html)
And how I'd just love to see a 'pro-life' person refer to promiscuous men the way they refer to promiscuous women: as 'sluts', 'irresponsible', and whatever other word you can use to demean the woman who gasp chose to have consensual sex.
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  #5  
Old Mar 4, '10, 9:01 pm
limerick limerick is offline
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift from God View Post
Feminists don't want women to be viewed as objects of sex or as sluts. The thing is, the pro-abortion feminists are so adamant about having the right to have an abortion, and I was thinking that since one can only get pregnant through sex, if they had an abortion, they obviously had sex. Why don't they see that having abortion can make women look like sluts?

To all those pro-life women here on CA, g'day!
We need a glossary here, or an agreement among posters with regard to terminology. A feminist wants opportunity, growth, honest loving relationships, a kindred spiritual connection with women and with men. There are women who lean toward feminism but draw the line at abortion. There are Catholics who endorse abortion as a matter of choice, not to be scrutinized by anyone outside the decision-making process. Of course, you would likely call these individuals something other than Catholic, but I feel that this would be up to the judgment of God and not up to the judgment of any human being, as it is no one's business but the pro-choice person's and God's.

Now, there is a good number of women who have abortions because of carelessness during intercourse and subsequent conception. But there are also other reasons women have abortions, such as genetic anomalies, fear of brutality from a mate or family if the pregnancy were to be disclosed, fetal demise. How does procuring an abortion because her embryo or fetus has died make a woman "look like a slut"? Likewise, how is it that you have come to look at any of these women from such a lofty perch, pronouncing them "objects" and labeling them in such an erroneous and un-Christianlike manner? Try to remember: if we pray for tolerance we can receive it as another Gift from God.

It is this Neanderthal mentality that pulls us all back to the primordial ooze, never attempting to delve into the details, always resting condescendingly upon the surface of a situation, spewing proclamations with neither content nor a glimmer of character. If you wish to argue against abortion, please think a little harder before offering nothing but crude epithets and shallow titillation. It is difficult enough to address this topic fairly and openly without having to fend off such blatant ignorance.

A final thought: do non-feminist women wish to be regarded as objects of sex or as sluts? This is an issue that touches ALL women, not just feminist women. If there are laws in place regarding sexual harassment in the workplace or privacy issues, or if fields of endeavor have opened up so women can enjoy participation in them, you can thank me for it. I am a second-wave feminist who has been blazing a trail for forty years so your sisters, daughters, nieces and granddaughters don't have to be groped and prodded, and so they can pursue non-traditional jobs if they so desire. A simple "thank you" might be more appropriate than a judgmental slam.

Limerick

Last edited by limerick; Mar 4, '10 at 9:12 pm.
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  #6  
Old Mar 4, '10, 9:37 pm
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

Let me make it clear that: the women need to be loved and spoken for just as much as their unborn children. Recently someone told me they believe pro-lifers to be fighting against the women and only striving to protect the babies. This is not true. We try to help everyone involved in the pregnancy; the man, the woman, and the child.

Most of the pro-life movement is made up of Christians who represent Jesus Christ, Who alone has the right to create life and take it. We represent the One who's Word tells us, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" and "Choose life so that you and your descendants may live."

And if we would like to win over women of all ages who call themselves "pro-choice," then we must first bring them Truth. Truth is that they are children of God and "beautiful in His sight".. Truth is that no matter what they do, then can be forgiven ... Truth is that they can find true meaning, true peace, and true love. Only once a woman excepts these truths, she will be able to better understand what life is, and how precious it is, because she will truly be living. You can educate someone on the realities of abortion very easily if you use a kind and charitable manner. The last thing we do is pass judgment...
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  #7  
Old Mar 5, '10, 11:54 am
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

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Originally Posted by lil_flower_luv View Post
Let me make it clear that: the women need to be loved and spoken for just as much as their unborn children. Recently someone told me they believe pro-lifers to be fighting against the women and only striving to protect the babies. This is not true. We try to help everyone involved in the pregnancy; the man, the woman, and the child.

Most of the pro-life movement is made up of Christians who represent Jesus Christ, Who alone has the right to create life and take it. We represent the One who's Word tells us, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" and "Choose life so that you and your descendants may live."

And if we would like to win over women of all ages who call themselves "pro-choice," then we must first bring them Truth. Truth is that they are children of God and "beautiful in His sight".. Truth is that no matter what they do, then can be forgiven ... Truth is that they can find true meaning, true peace, and true love. Only once a woman excepts these truths, she will be able to better understand what life is, and how precious it is, because she will truly be living. You can educate someone on the realities of abortion very easily if you use a kind and charitable manner. The last thing we do is pass judgment...
Are we to understand, then, that the Original Poster on this theme is but a marginalized or disenfranchised "pro-life" individual who has no grasp on the concept of the Truth?

Limerick
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  #8  
Old Mar 5, '10, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

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Originally Posted by limerick View Post
Are we to understand, then, that the Original Poster on this theme is but a marginalized or disenfranchised "pro-life" individual who has no grasp on the concept of the Truth?

Limerick
I implied the OP had made a mistake. Abortion may be centered around lies, deceit, evil, and death, but that leaves no Christian an excuse to condemn all the souls involved in it.

Peace to you, Limerick.
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  #9  
Old Mar 5, '10, 12:08 pm
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

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Originally Posted by mjs1987 View Post
Because it is a mental disorder. They are against pornography but support women that participate in pornography. They want abortion because they see it as a way for women to have the ultimate power over life. Many are lesbians and therefore do not think about the way women are viewed if they are promiscuous. Early feminists were against abortion but modern feminists are in favor largely because of women like Margaret Sanger that argued for it to eliminate undesirable groups and for women to have no consequences for sex. It reduces humans to mere animals because it has not increased the respect that women get and many women are viewed as objects by men. Yet, this is called liberation.
Because it is a mental disorder

I never cease to be amazed by the insults continually heaped upon the mentally disordered on this forum. Whenever someone disapproves of a person's action, they diagnose that person as having a mentally disorder. I even read on another thread where a poster complained about a man's rude behavior in church and someone diagnosed the man as mentally disordered.

First of all, unless you are a licensed psychologist or psychiartrist, you are not qualified to diagnose a mental disorder.
Furthermore, practicing medicine without a license is a crime. So you are either an incompetant doctor or you are commiting the crime of impersonating a doctor.
Finally, when the term "mental disorder" is used to insult people whose behavior you disapprove of, you stimatize mentally ill people! How would you feel if everytime someone disapporved of another's behavior, they insulted them by saying, "they must have cancer" or "they must have heart disease."

Why not show a little compassion and respect for the millions of people suffering from mental disorders by not constantly using the term "mental disorder" as an insult! There are people on this forum who suffer from mental illness: how do you think you make them feel when you use their diagnosis as a generic insult?
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  #10  
Old Mar 5, '10, 2:24 pm
limerick limerick is offline
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

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Because it is a mental disorder

I never cease to be amazed by the insults continually heaped upon the mentally disordered on this forum. Whenever someone disapproves of a person's action, they diagnose that person as having a mentally disorder. I even read on another thread where a poster complained about a man's rude behavior in church and someone diagnosed the man as mentally disordered.

First of all, unless you are a licensed psychologist or psychiartrist, you are not qualified to diagnose a mental disorder.
Furthermore, practicing medicine without a license is a crime. So you are either an incompetant doctor or you are commiting the crime of impersonating a doctor.
Finally, when the term "mental disorder" is used to insult people whose behavior you disapprove of, you stimatize mentally ill people! How would you feel if everytime someone disapporved of another's behavior, they insulted them by saying, "they must have cancer" or "they must have heart disease."

Why not show a little compassion and respect for the millions of people suffering from mental disorders by not constantly using the term "mental disorder" as an insult! There are people on this forum who suffer from mental illness: how do you think you make them feel when you use their diagnosis as a generic insult?
I am one of those suffering from a mental disorder and have been medicated for 21 years to keep in under control. Without the medication I can assure you that I would be highly compelled to track down the OP and invite a face-off with him/her. The disordered thinking originated in the original poster's camp. Now, off to the medicine chest, wherein I shall find nine different medications that are currently protecting the ignorant. Hats off to West-Ward and Mylan.

Limerick
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Old Mar 5, '10, 2:31 pm
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

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Originally Posted by limerick View Post
We need a glossary here, or an agreement among posters with regard to terminology. A feminist wants opportunity, growth, honest loving relationships, a kindred spiritual connection with women and with men. There are women who lean toward feminism but draw the line at abortion. There are Catholics who endorse abortion as a matter of choice, not to be scrutinized by anyone outside the decision-making process. Of course, you would likely call these individuals something other than Catholic, but I feel that this would be up to the judgment of God and not up to the judgment of any human being, as it is no one's business but the pro-choice person's and God's.

Now, there is a good number of women who have abortions because of carelessness during intercourse and subsequent conception. But there are also other reasons women have abortions, such as genetic anomalies, fear of brutality from a mate or family if the pregnancy were to be disclosed, fetal demise. How does procuring an abortion because her embryo or fetus has died make a woman "look like a slut"? Likewise, how is it that you have come to look at any of these women from such a lofty perch, pronouncing them "objects" and labeling them in such an erroneous and un-Christianlike manner? Try to remember: if we pray for tolerance we can receive it as another Gift from God.

It is this Neanderthal mentality that pulls us all back to the primordial ooze, never attempting to delve into the details, always resting condescendingly upon the surface of a situation, spewing proclamations with neither content nor a glimmer of character. If you wish to argue against abortion, please think a little harder before offering nothing but crude epithets and shallow titillation. It is difficult enough to address this topic fairly and openly without having to fend off such blatant ignorance.

A final thought: do non-feminist women wish to be regarded as objects of sex or as sluts? This is an issue that touches ALL women, not just feminist women. If there are laws in place regarding sexual harassment in the workplace or privacy issues, or if fields of endeavor have opened up so women can enjoy participation in them, you can thank me for it. I am a second-wave feminist who has been blazing a trail for forty years so your sisters, daughters, nieces and granddaughters don't have to be groped and prodded, and so they can pursue non-traditional jobs if they so desire. A simple "thank you" might be more appropriate than a judgmental slam.

Limerick
This woman wants to say a big "Thank You", for your dedication and this excellent post.
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  #12  
Old Mar 8, '10, 11:21 am
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

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Originally Posted by limerick View Post
I am one of those suffering from a mental disorder and have been medicated for 21 years to keep in under control. Without the medication I can assure you that I would be highly compelled to track down the OP and invite a face-off with him/her. The disordered thinking originated in the original poster's camp. Now, off to the medicine chest, wherein I shall find nine different medications that are currently protecting the ignorant. Hats off to West-Ward and Mylan.

Limerick
I'm also suffering from several mental disorders. Luckily I have things "Under Control", but I'm not on medication. Especially as I suffer from DID, with a volatile personality, not fun. I hope we never meet IRL, because the world might be in trouble... People are quite ignorant.
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  #13  
Old Mar 8, '10, 11:24 am
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

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Originally Posted by limerick View Post
We need a glossary here, or an agreement among posters with regard to terminology. A feminist wants opportunity, growth, honest loving relationships, a kindred spiritual connection with women and with men. There are women who lean toward feminism but draw the line at abortion. There are Catholics who endorse abortion as a matter of choice, not to be scrutinized by anyone outside the decision-making process. Of course, you would likely call these individuals something other than Catholic, but I feel that this would be up to the judgment of God and not up to the judgment of any human being, as it is no one's business but the pro-choice person's and God's.

Now, there is a good number of women who have abortions because of carelessness during intercourse and subsequent conception. But there are also other reasons women have abortions, such as genetic anomalies, fear of brutality from a mate or family if the pregnancy were to be disclosed, fetal demise. How does procuring an abortion because her embryo or fetus has died make a woman "look like a slut"? Likewise, how is it that you have come to look at any of these women from such a lofty perch, pronouncing them "objects" and labeling them in such an erroneous and un-Christianlike manner? Try to remember: if we pray for tolerance we can receive it as another Gift from God.

It is this Neanderthal mentality that pulls us all back to the primordial ooze, never attempting to delve into the details, always resting condescendingly upon the surface of a situation, spewing proclamations with neither content nor a glimmer of character. If you wish to argue against abortion, please think a little harder before offering nothing but crude epithets and shallow titillation. It is difficult enough to address this topic fairly and openly without having to fend off such blatant ignorance.

A final thought: do non-feminist women wish to be regarded as objects of sex or as sluts? This is an issue that touches ALL women, not just feminist women. If there are laws in place regarding sexual harassment in the workplace or privacy issues, or if fields of endeavor have opened up so women can enjoy participation in them, you can thank me for it. I am a second-wave feminist who has been blazing a trail for forty years so your sisters, daughters, nieces and granddaughters don't have to be groped and prodded, and so they can pursue non-traditional jobs if they so desire. A simple "thank you" might be more appropriate than a judgmental slam.

Limerick
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  #14  
Old Mar 13, '10, 4:59 pm
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by limerick View Post
We need a glossary here, or an agreement among posters with regard to terminology. A feminist wants opportunity, growth, honest loving relationships, a kindred spiritual connection with women and with men. There are women who lean toward feminism but draw the line at abortion. There are Catholics who endorse abortion as a matter of choice, not to be scrutinized by anyone outside the decision-making process. Of course, you would likely call these individuals something other than Catholic, but I feel that this would be up to the judgment of God and not up to the judgment of any human being, as it is no one's business but the pro-choice person's and God's.

Now, there is a good number of women who have abortions because of carelessness during intercourse and subsequent conception. But there are also other reasons women have abortions, such as genetic anomalies, fear of brutality from a mate or family if the pregnancy were to be disclosed, fetal demise. How does procuring an abortion because her embryo or fetus has died make a woman "look like a slut"? Likewise, how is it that you have come to look at any of these women from such a lofty perch, pronouncing them "objects" and labeling them in such an erroneous and un-Christianlike manner? Try to remember: if we pray for tolerance we can receive it as another Gift from God.

It is this Neanderthal mentality that pulls us all back to the primordial ooze, never attempting to delve into the details, always resting condescendingly upon the surface of a situation, spewing proclamations with neither content nor a glimmer of character. If you wish to argue against abortion, please think a little harder before offering nothing but crude epithets and shallow titillation. It is difficult enough to address this topic fairly and openly without having to fend off such blatant ignorance.

A final thought: do non-feminist women wish to be regarded as objects of sex or as sluts? This is an issue that touches ALL women, not just feminist women. If there are laws in place regarding sexual harassment in the workplace or privacy issues, or if fields of endeavor have opened up so women can enjoy participation in them, you can thank me for it. I am a second-wave feminist who has been blazing a trail for forty years so your sisters, daughters, nieces and granddaughters don't have to be groped and prodded, and so they can pursue non-traditional jobs if they so desire. A simple "thank you" might be more appropriate than a judgmental slam.

Limerick
It makes no difference whether a woman is a feminist or not - killing her unborn child is an act of murder and definitely takes her back to the primordial ooze. Without accepting the children a loving God sends us, we show ourselves to be nothing more than uncivilized brutes. And it has nothing to do with calling anyone a "slut" (which is an extremely ugly and offensive word). The point is that a child in any woman's womb is a loved creation of God. These children do not belong to us. We don't have the right to kill them.

Every child is precious. Every child is worthwhile. Every child is loved and wanted and should be protected. It makes no difference if that child's life is just starting as the ovum is fertilized or if the child is being born into this world. Every child deserves the same chance we all got - the chance at life.


Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
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Old Mar 13, '10, 5:12 pm
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Default Re: How do pro-abortion women not see abortion objectifies them?

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Originally Posted by Gift from God View Post
Feminists don't want women to be viewed as objects of sex or as sluts. The thing is, the pro-abortion feminists are so adamant about having the right to have an abortion, and I was thinking that since one can only get pregnant through sex, if they had an abortion, they obviously had sex. Why don't they see that having abortion can make women look like sluts?

To all those pro-life women here on CA, g'day!
I am somewhat confused by your post. Women should never be viewed as objects of sex, or as "sluts" (I hate that word). Are you prolife? If so, I think you are perhaps confused as to what prolifers really stand for.

Any mother with a living child obviously had sex. In fact, it is probably very obvious that a woman is a mother (as she may have her child with her in her arms or in a stroller or may be eight-months pregnant). Women who have had abortions usually don't show it. They don't walk around with signboards proclaiming "I HAD AN ABORTION! HOORAY FOR ME!"

So, using your reasoning, women who don't have abortions but who have become pregnant, are actually more likely to "look like sluts."

I think your focus is not where it should be. Women, just as men, are sexual creatures, and even those good Catholic married women have sexual intercourse. They are supposed to. That is the way God intended for new human beings to come into the world (and I haven't even mentioned that sexual intercourse is a re-enactment of the marital covenant).

Please think about this a bit more and perhaps read some prolife material. Prolifers believe in the sanctity of all human life from conception to death. That includes the women you are saying are likely to "look like sluts."



Ave Maria! Ora pro nobis.
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Prayer Intentions

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