Should homosexual people be allowed to visit their partners in hospital when it's 'family only'? - Page 4

Pug · #46 Mar 7, '10, 5:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathia

Hospitals are known to ignore Power of Attorney. It's happened to me, it happened in Florida, it seems to happen pretty frequently too, though only time to time does it get reported. My partner and I have power of attorney for each other, but my partner's been kicked out of the hospital by my relatives more than once.

I'm sorry this happened to you.

Myself, since I have power of attorney for someone, I have wondered if a hospital or the workers in it would always honor such things. I've had so many bad experiences in hospitals, I have doubts. I haven't had them concerning power of attorney, though. I can't help but suspect the attitudes in hospitals are through and through. Maybe they are all too overworked to do any better, which is a crime in itself.

pathia · #47 Mar 7, '10, 6:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pug

I'm sorry this happened to you.

Myself, since I have power of attorney for someone, I have wondered if a hospital or the workers in it would always honor such things. I've had so many bad experiences in hospitals, I have doubts. I haven't had them concerning power of attorney, though. I can't help but suspect the attitudes in hospitals are through and through. Maybe they are all too overworked to do any better, which is a crime in itself.

I think it's natural for most people to assume the family is the closest to the individual and thus the best bet at offering care. What's unfortunate is when offered evidence to the contrary, they continue to insist that this is the best way.

redrosetea · #48 Mar 7, '10, 6:24 pm

I think we need to treat people with kindness even if we are not in agreement with their choices.....yes I think they should be able to visit..It is important to let them see people that will cheer them up

You are never going to bring anyone to Christ by being mean and hateful....Being kind to someone isn't the same thing as giving them a green light to commit sin

mark a · #49 Mar 7, '10, 6:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethe

Voiced quite well in this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoWNnt4Fdh4

(Hear it through, if it offends you it'll be over soon enough anyway... The point that hits home with me is that someone could be refused to see their partner of years and years because theyre not married, though they would happily be married if they could)

In all my years, I've never been asked while visiting a hospitalized person, family or otherwise, if I were a homosexual or even a family member at all.

pathia · #50 Mar 7, '10, 6:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark a

In all my years, I've never been asked while visiting a hospitalized person, family or otherwise, if I were a homosexual or even a family member at all.

If they are very hurt, or need medical decisions done at the moment, they will. Usually what happens is the family of the person in the hospital, evicts the person's partner because they do not approve of their child's lifestyle. They tend to say they are 'saving' their child by preventing the partner from being at their side while they die.

Pug · #51 Mar 7, '10, 7:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark a

In all my years, I've never been asked while visiting a hospitalized person, family or otherwise, if I were a homosexual or even a family member at all.

Maybe this is a function of age? I still haven't gotten used to the modern hospital concept that anyone may wander in at will and visit whomever, whenever. I still feel like I am skulking about in violation of a zillion "rules" when I visit a hospital in the evening, etc.

Like the Soup Nazi. "No soup for you." "No Visitors." "Only one visitor." "Only visit 20 minutes." "Even though your child is five, you must not stay long. Parents are bad for their children." "You are a man. You may not be in the room." Whatever.

Do you know, parents can actually remain with children the whole time now?

mark a · #52 Mar 7, '10, 7:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathia

If they are very hurt, or need medical decisions done at the moment, they will. Usually what happens is the family of the person in the hospital, evicts the person's partner because they do not approve of their child's lifestyle. They tend to say they are 'saving' their child by preventing the partner from being at their side while they die.

Ok, I can be sympathetic to this the situation you describe.

But the whole "gay marriage" debate seems to hinge on these rare circumstances, much as the whole abortion question hinges on abortion rights for rape victims.

mark a · #53 Mar 7, '10, 7:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pug

Maybe this is a function of age? I still haven't gotten used to the modern hospital concept that anyone may wander in at will and visit whomever, whenever. I still feel like I am skulking about in violation of a zillion "rules" when I visit a hospital in the evening, etc.

Like the Soup Nazi. "No soup for you." "No Visitors." "Only one visitor." "Only visit 20 minutes." "Even though your child is five, you must not stay long. Parents are bad for their children." "You are a man. You may not be in the room." Whatever.

Do you know, parents can actually remain with children the whole time now?

So I guess I agree with you that we need to exclude "visiting rights" for everyone including homosexuals.

Those were the days, my friend.

pathia · #54 Mar 7, '10, 10:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark a

Ok, I can be sympathetic to this the situation you describe.

But the whole "gay marriage" debate seems to hinge on these rare circumstances, much as the whole abortion question hinges on abortion rights for rape victims.

I am in the hospital a lot, it is not a very rare situation for me. My partner has been removed several times while I'm in the hospital. Part of the reason why I moved to the other side of the country was to make it as difficult as possible for anyone but my partner to come visit me. Legal options completely failed, so it was easier to make time and money barriers.

Middleman · #55 Mar 7, '10, 11:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by puzzleannie

any one who enters the hospital is invited to specify what visitors he will accept, and which he does not. even the chaplain cannot visit without his permission. If he wishes to state his next door neighbor, boss or any other person is the one he wishes to visit and to make medical decisions when he cannot, he can do so with the proper documentation. This entire discussion is a non-issue.

This post is more concerning a patient who is not cognizant enough to make his/her wishes be known. It would mainly apply to an ICU situation. It also would apply to unmarried heterosexuals.

gamewell45 · #56 Mar 8, '10, 12:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petergee

No. Repeatedly sodomising somebody does not make one a family member.

How do you know that they sodomize each other repeatedly? Or is that just an assumption on your part?

Texas Roofer · #57 Mar 8, '10, 1:08 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathia

Hospitals are known to ignore Power of Attorney. It's happened to me, it happened in Florida, it seems to happen pretty frequently too, though only time to time does it get reported. My partner and I have power of attorney for each other, but my partner's been kicked out of the hospital by my relatives more than once.

I would doubt hospitals ignore proper authority as hospitals are sued constantly. Maybe you should revisit the attorney and either determine if the wrong legal papers were drawn (as limited power of attorney) or if another lawsuit is in order. Additionally the attorney might advise on the proper method to inform the hospital of proper authority, when the patient is not using the common default of authority to the family. Far to many people have family issues unrelated to SSA, and they use alternate systems. That is the biggest problems I have with these SSA issues, they are not marriage issues. I truly believe the SSA crowd misrepresents issues.

Could you explain a little more about why "Legal options completely failed," who made your decisions? why did the decision maker deny your partners authority? etc.

Doc Keele · #58 Mar 8, '10, 2:21 am

I'm not sure that Power of Attorney actually grants you rights to visit, as nothing grants you the right to visit as far as I'm aware. But I may be wrong.

Lethe · #59 Mar 8, '10, 5:51 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Other Eric

Natural Law permits no one to recognize a same-sex “relationship” even if only by implication. Since allowing a visit to a patient by his or her same-sex partner would constitute implicit affirmation, this sort of thing should never be permitted. Additionally, Natural Law further directs us to ignore any sort of power of attorney or other legal fictions created in an attempt by such a couple to replicate the goods of a marriage.

Parents, siblings and children have relationships with you, they're just not marriage relationships... They are allowed to visit.

And so it is more important to you to not be seen as affirming same-sex relationships than it is to let a dying person see who they love most on the earth? Interesting priorities you have.

pathia · #60 Mar 8, '10, 6:01 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Roofer

I would doubt hospitals ignore proper authority as hospitals are sued constantly. Maybe you should revisit the attorney and either determine if the wrong legal papers were drawn (as limited power of attorney) or if another lawsuit is in order. Additionally the attorney might advise on the proper method to inform the hospital of proper authority, when the patient is not using the common default of authority to the family. Far to many people have family issues unrelated to SSA, and they use alternate systems. That is the biggest problems I have with these SSA issues, they are not marriage issues. I truly believe the SSA crowd misrepresents issues.

Could you explain a little more about why "Legal options completely failed," who made your decisions? why did the decision maker deny your partners authority? etc.

We had the strongest power of attorney possible in the state we were living in. The hospital wanted a 'real' copy of the document instead of the copies my partner had. Of course it being Saturday at 1am, the lawyers were not available to give us 'real' copies until Monday. Also the ban on same sex marriage and civil unions was cited, they were saying it banned 'anything designed to simulate marriage'. They said our power of attorney did so and thus might have made it void, again requiring our lawyer's presence for verification.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,3396801.story

Here is a story of it happening in Florida. I believe the case was already ruled against the surviving partner, that she had no rights, even with power of attorney and no right to claim anything was done wrong or any harm was done to her, or their children.

So suing does even do any good.