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  #1  
Old Mar 7, '10, 11:59 am
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CatholicLife CatholicLife is offline
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Default Black Hoods


What are those black hoods called?
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  #2  
Old Mar 7, '10, 12:57 pm
eichenb2 eichenb2 is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

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Originally Posted by CatholicLife View Post

What are those black hoods called?
I don't know, but I like them.
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  #3  
Old Mar 7, '10, 1:00 pm
malphono malphono is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

It's worn only by Armenian bishops, but I'm not sure what it's called in Armenian. It is akin to the Syriac masnaphtho.
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  #4  
Old Mar 7, '10, 1:21 pm
Phillip Rolfes Phillip Rolfes is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

I've seen them worn by Armenian priests as well.
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  #5  
Old Mar 7, '10, 1:23 pm
malphono malphono is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

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Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes View Post
I've seen them worn by Armenian priests as well.
I'm not sure that secular clergy are entitled to wear it, but monastic clergy are. The same is true for the Syriac masnaphtho (aka eskeme), and I was remiss in not noting that earlier.
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  #6  
Old Mar 7, '10, 2:44 pm
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Madaglan Madaglan is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

The Armenian hood reminds me of the cowl worn by the Carthusian order (only the Carhusians wear white):

see: http://konicki.com/blog2/wp-content/...usian_monk.jpg
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  #7  
Old Mar 7, '10, 6:12 pm
rowlands rowlands is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

I believe it is called a vaghar and is worn by vowed celibate clergy, some of whom are vartapets or doctors of the church (whose mark of rank is the staff) and some of whom are elevated to the episcopy.
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  #8  
Old Mar 8, '10, 2:09 pm
Phillip Rolfes Phillip Rolfes is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

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Originally Posted by malphono View Post
I'm not sure that secular clergy are entitled to wear it, but monastic clergy are. The same is true for the Syriac masnaphtho (aka eskeme), and I was remiss in not noting that earlier.
I don't know if secular clergy are entitled to wear it either. I do know that the Melkites have a tendency to raise celibate secular priests to the level of archimandrite, thus permitting them to wear the "hat and veil." I wonder if the Armenians don't sometimes employ the same reasoning.
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  #9  
Old Mar 8, '10, 2:27 pm
malphono malphono is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

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Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes View Post
I don't know if secular clergy are entitled to wear it either. I do know that the Melkites have a tendency to raise celibate secular priests to the level of archimandrite, thus permitting them to wear the "hat and veil." I wonder if the Armenians don't sometimes employ the same reasoning.
The Armenian equivalent of Archmandrite is Vartaped (sp?). Yes, the candidates must be celibate, and technically I believe they are also the equivalent of titular Abbots. The Syriac Church equivalent is Chor-Episkopos, but its interesting that monks are never ordained Chor-Episkopos.

In pre-conciliar times, the Roman equivalent of Archmandrite was Protonotary Apostolic, (the title still exists but in typical post-conciliar fashion, the dignity itself is watered-down), but there I'm not sure of the monastic connection. I don't know if there is a Chaldean or Alexandrene equivalent.
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  #10  
Old Mar 9, '10, 10:29 am
ag_vn ag_vn is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

I wonder why the Armenian Catholic bishops and patriarch don't wear them. It is the same with the Coptic and Syriac Catholic bishops, they don't wear the respective turbans.
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  #11  
Old Mar 9, '10, 10:41 am
Phillip Rolfes Phillip Rolfes is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

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Originally Posted by ag_vn View Post
I wonder why the Armenian Catholic bishops and patriarch don't wear them. It is the same with the Coptic and Syriac Catholic bishops, they don't wear the respective turbans.
In one word, "Latinization." Many Eastern Catholics (hierarchs included) think that in order to be truly Catholic they have to look and act as much like their Roman Catholic brethren as possible.
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  #12  
Old Mar 9, '10, 12:23 pm
malphono malphono is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

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Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes View Post
In one word, "Latinization." Many Eastern Catholics (hierarchs included) think that in order to be truly Catholic they have to look and act as much like their Roman Catholic brethren as possible.
Seems to me that's a bit unfair. In so far as specific headwear is concerned, it is, AFIK, only the Syro-Malabars who ever adopted the Roman biretta (and, just like the Romans, they probably don't use it much any more either, but I digress). Syriac CC, e.g., bishops wear something that is rather like a short kamalavkion (without veil), not a biretta. And for all the accusations of latinization, the Maronites have always maintained the tobiyye (for secular clergy and bishops) and the eskeme (for monks and bishops).

Insofar as other dress, yes, in general most have adopted the Roman style, but normally with some specific modifications. The Maronites (in the Patriarchal Territories, at least), e.g., tend to wear a Roman-style cassock but the cut is subtly different, and so is the collar. Simple priests may wear a sash (like the fascia), and all who do tend to wear it well above the waist (even if they're not overweight!) I believe the custom among the Chaldeans is similar.
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  #13  
Old Mar 9, '10, 12:39 pm
ciero ciero is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

Quote:
Originally Posted by malphono View Post
Seems to me that's a bit unfair. In so far as specific headwear is concerned, it is, AFIK, only the Syro-Malabars who ever adopted the Roman biretta (and, just like the Romans, they probably don't use it much any more either, but I digress). Syriac CC, e.g., bishops wear something that is rather like a short kamalavkion (without veil), not a biretta. And for all the accusations of latinization, the Maronites have always maintained the tobiyye (for secular clergy and bishops) and the eskeme (for monks and bishops).

Insofar as other dress, yes, in general most have adopted the Roman style, but normally with some specific modifications. The Maronites (in the Patriarchal Territories, at least), e.g., tend to wear a Roman-style cassock but the cut is subtly different, and so is the collar. Simple priests may wear a sash (like the fascia), and all who do tend to wear it well above the waist (even if they're not overweight!) I believe the custom among the Chaldeans is similar.
More Latinizations!! God forbid we look to eastern!!
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  #14  
Old Mar 9, '10, 12:48 pm
malphono malphono is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

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Originally Posted by ciero View Post
More Latinizations!! God forbid we look to eastern!!
Aw, common ... What does "look to eastern" really mean? Byzantine?

Let's be fair. The Syriac OC & Armenian OC wear what is very similar to a cassock. I believe the same is true among the Copts. In any case, all Orientals wear the equivalent of the riasa as an outer garment. And monks remain unscathed.
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  #15  
Old Mar 9, '10, 1:12 pm
ciero ciero is offline
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Default Re: Black Hoods

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Originally Posted by malphono View Post
Aw, common ... What does "look to eastern" really mean? Byzantine?

Let's be fair. The Syriac OC & Armenian OC wear what is very similar to a cassock. I believe the same is true among the Copts. In any case, all Orientals wear the equivalent of the riasa as an outer garment. And monks remain unscathed.
It means God forbid we dont look Latin!! Why dont the Oriental Catholics dress like their Orthodox counterparts? Because they would look to Eastern! Simple really. It all goes back to the fact that we Easterners accept the fact that we are second class citizens within the catholic communion. Move to the back of the buss.
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