Can there be openly gay priest who maintain a celibate lifestyle?

[Baer]

I think a big problem in this thread is that people don't mean the same thing when they say homosexual. It appears to me that when the Church uses the term it means someone who is either currently in/pursuing romantic or sexual relationships with members of their same sex, while many people including myself in day to day conversations use homosexual to mean anyone who is attracted exclusively or primarily to members of the same sex as themself, which I believe the Church calls homosexual tendencies. So in my usage of the word Homosexual I would say that yes, a homosexual man could become a priest however by the Church's definition that same man would have homosexual tendencies.

[puzzleannie]

Originally Posted by GR1G1O

Can there be openly gay priest who maintain a celibate lifestyle? Or if you are openly gay, or openly have those temptations, are you eliminated from being a Catholic priest? And if such a person cannot be a priest but feels they have that calling to live a celibate life, what options does the Church give them?

that is a contradiction in terms. openly gay (as opposed to someone who has a homosexual orientation) means just that, espousing and participating in that lifestyle with all its ramifications, including the political identification with its advocacy groups. So such a person by definition is celibate as long as he remains unmarried--that is the meaning of the word--but not chaste, in fact the opposite, because he has chosen against chastity, personal and for anyone else who shares his orientation. That is what the other word, gay, means. It is a self-identification adopted by some (not all) homosexuals to describe the manner of life they adopt.

If your question is, instead, can a person with a homosexual orientation aspire to the Catholic priesthood the answer is no, unless that inclination has been conquered through mature psycho-sexual development, and he has been living chastely and continently, and even then only after rigorous discernment.

[LCMS_No_More]

Originally Posted by Baer

I think a big problem in this thread is that people don't mean the same thing when they say homosexual. It appears to me that when the Church uses the term it means someone who is either currently in/pursuing romantic or sexual relationships with members of their same sex, while many people including myself in day to day conversations use homosexual to mean anyone who is attracted exclusively or primarily to members of the same sex as themself, which I believe the Church calls homosexual tendencies. So in my usage of the word Homosexual I would say that yes, a homosexual man could become a priest however by the Church's definition that same man would have homosexual tendencies.

Based on the contextI think the Church defines it the same way you (and I) do, namely, a person who is sexually attracted to members of the same-sex. Nothing more, nothing less.

Try to think of how people relate to this on a sociological level. People also live in their own culture. I'm not just talking about national culture but the various subcultures that exist in the larger culture in a country. Take the United States, for example. You have regional subcultures (i.e., Northern, Southern, Midwestern, West Coast, East Coast, Southern California (yes, we are unique, deal with it!)) as well as subcultures based on belief or common interests (Trekkers/Trekkies, sports fans, Christians in general (broken down further, i.e., evangelical, fundamentalist, Catholic, "mainline", etc.), political, etc. These things combine to create unique subcultures that are interesting to look at.

Here on CAF, there is a general culture of Catholicism, but there is also a very, very strong right-wing pull to it as well. Even in areas where politics has absolutely nothing to do with anything, people will still use the commonly used parlance and people in that community understand. That's where my beef relative to how homosexuality and homosexual persons is discussed.

It appears (and I'm only going based on perception) that people encounter the word "homosexual" and their first thoughts automatically go to the people who go to "gay pride" parades and act like freaks. There are many reasons for this. First, it's what makes big headlines in news sources that cater to people with a right-wing ideological mindset (which is the predominant political culture here, can't deny that!): "Homosexuals have parade: children and horses terrorized!!" followed by the worst bad behavior the cameras can find. What is ignored is that that is not all homosexual persons act this way. There are many who live their lives quietly in the Church (and are largely ignored by the Church, too -- out of sight, out of mind).

Perhaps it takes people to point out that not every SSA person acts this way, even if they don't manage to get rid of all the fem traits. I, myself, have diminishing SSA (I've actually moved to bisexual (not actively, only in terms of attraction) now than I was just a few months ago...it's a long and arduous process) and I, fortunately, never really involved myself too much in the "gay lifestyle" of clubbing, bar hopping, etc. and I never obtained those fem traits. I act like most other men around me except I don't don sports stuff (which I'm cool with -- I'm a geek! ) and I don't have a woman (I'd like one, though).

[LCMS_No_More]

Originally Posted by puzzleannie

that is a contradiction in terms. openly gay (as opposed to someone who has a homosexual orientation) means just that, espousing and participating in that lifestyle with all its ramifications, including the political identification with its advocacy groups. So such a person by definition is celibate as long as he remains unmarried--that is the meaning of the word--but not chaste, in fact the opposite, because he has chosen against chastity, personal and for anyone else who shares his orientation. That is what the other word, gay, means. It is a self-identification adopted by some (not all) homosexuals to describe the manner of life they adopt.

If your question is, instead, can a person with a homosexual orientation aspire to the Catholic priesthood the answer is no, unless that inclination has been conquered through mature psycho-sexual development, and he has been living chastely and continently, and even then only after rigorous discernment.

We are in agreement.

I must add, I admire your clear-headed thinking on the subject. You understand the nuances of Church teaching and can explain them logically and simply. An example to all.

[Joseph629]

Originally Posted by Malena60

This is wrong. But again I trust the Holy Mother Church and need not to understand the reasons...................

Good for you.

[JReducation]

Originally Posted by Malena60

This bother me a little bit.

There are two priests.. one who had multiple sexual (non homosexual) partners when he was growing up. The other one had homosexual tendencies that he never fulfilled and never committed an act with someone of the same sex. The first one will be able to approach priesthood swearing celibacy and the other one who has promise to live a celibate life because of his tendencies can't become a priest if that's his desire?

Why do we have to believe the promiscuous one and not the one that has been celibate? it doesn't' make sense. Because he has homosexual tendencies doesn't mean that he is going to abuse children.

This is wrong. But again I trust the Holy Mother Church and need not to understand the reasons for these injustices.

Read the document very carefully.

the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question[9], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture

It is not speaking about those who have same-sex attractions and live a celibate life. In fact, in the first part of the statement it speaks that a person who has been free of deep seated homosexual tendencies for at least three years can be considered.

Also, if you notice the wording, it says "seminary". Diocesan priests attend seminary. Religious go through another prosess of formation. We go through aspirancy, postulancy, novitiate and juniorate before making final vows. During that time we study philosophy and theology at either a university or a theologate for religious. Some religious also study theology at a diocesan seminary, but they are not part of the diocese. They are dependent on their major superior, not the bishop. The major superior decides if they may be ordained. The rules for religious orders are a little different.

Because we live in community druring the 7-10 years of formation, the formators have the opportunity to observe the individual more closely. The rules from the Vatican are that the formators must observe the daily interactions of the new religious. They are looking for healthy and appropriate interactions between the religious in formation and the members of the religious community as well as with persons of both genders outside of the community. This rule applies to ALL religious in formation, regardless of their sexual attractions.

The same rule applies to heterosexual men. A man who has lived a promiscuous life cannot enter a diocesan seminary without an extended period of celibate living.

The issue here is that deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not very clear. But reading the rest of the sentence it seems to mean those who are sexually active, those who identify themselves as gay and those who support the "gay culture." According to my understanding this individual is not exercising discipline and sees homosexuality as an identity and a culture. I may be wrong, but I have not seen another explanation of that term.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

[Lypher]

Originally Posted by GR1G1O

Can there be openly gay priest who maintain a celibate lifestyle? Or if you are openly gay, or openly have those temptations, are you eliminated from being a Catholic priest? And if such a person cannot be a priest but feels they have that calling to live a celibate life, what options does the Church give them?

You can have an opposite physical attraction, but I do not believe you can call yourself Gay unless you condone the lifestyle. I think if a Priest that had attraction to males was serious about his faith he should probably be in a monastery where he could not cause Potential problems with the flock. That being said the Church would have to put some pretty strong supervisors there to make sure that they did not grow up to hurt young priests...... double edged sword but at least we would limit the risk to children and the leaders would be able to determine which priests could become shepards.....

God Bless and Pray for me Please.....

[Malena60]

Originally Posted by JReducation

Read the document very carefully.

the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question[9], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture

It is not speaking about those who have same-sex attractions and live a celibate life. In fact, in the first part of the statement it speaks that a person who has been free of deep seated homosexual tendencies for at least three years can be considered.

Also, if you notice the wording, it says "seminary". Diocesan priests attend seminary. Religious go through another prosess of formation. We go through aspirancy, postulancy, novitiate and juniorate before making final vows. During that time we study philosophy and theology at either a university or a theologate for religious. Some religious also study theology at a diocesan seminary, but they are not part of the diocese. They are dependent on their major superior, not the bishop. The major superior decides if they may be ordained. The rules for religious orders are a little different.

Because we live in community druring the 7-10 years of formation, the formators have the opportunity to observe the individual more closely. The rules from the Vatican are that the formators must observe the daily interactions of the new religious. They are looking for healthy and appropriate interactions between the religious in formation and the members of the religious community as well as with persons of both genders outside of the community. This rule applies to ALL religious in formation, regardless of their sexual attractions.

The same rule applies to heterosexual men. A man who has lived a promiscuous life cannot enter a diocesan seminary without an extended period of celibate living.

The issue here is that deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not very clear. But reading the rest of the sentence it seems to mean those who are sexually active, those who identify themselves as gay and those who support the "gay culture." According to my understanding this individual is not exercising discipline and sees homosexuality as an identity and a culture. I may be wrong, but I have not seen another explanation of that term.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thanks for taking the time to explain this issue to me! God bless!

[Lypher]

Originally Posted by JReducation

Read the document very carefully.

the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question[9], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture

It is not speaking about those who have same-sex attractions and live a celibate life. In fact, in the first part of the statement it speaks that a person who has been free of deep seated homosexual tendencies for at least three years can be considered.

Also, if you notice the wording, it says "seminary". Diocesan priests attend seminary. Religious go through another prosess of formation. We go through aspirancy, postulancy, novitiate and juniorate before making final vows. During that time we study philosophy and theology at either a university or a theologate for religious. Some religious also study theology at a diocesan seminary, but they are not part of the diocese. They are dependent on their major superior, not the bishop. The major superior decides if they may be ordained. The rules for religious orders are a little different.

Because we live in community druring the 7-10 years of formation, the formators have the opportunity to observe the individual more closely. The rules from the Vatican are that the formators must observe the daily interactions of the new religious. They are looking for healthy and appropriate interactions between the religious in formation and the members of the religious community as well as with persons of both genders outside of the community. This rule applies to ALL religious in formation, regardless of their sexual attractions.

The same rule applies to heterosexual men. A man who has lived a promiscuous life cannot enter a diocesan seminary without an extended period of celibate living.

The issue here is that deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not very clear. But reading the rest of the sentence it seems to mean those who are sexually active, those who identify themselves as gay and those who support the "gay culture." According to my understanding this individual is not exercising discipline and sees homosexuality as an identity and a culture. I may be wrong, but I have not seen another explanation of that term.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

A FAR better explanation then mine....... God Bless You Brother...... Pray for me please.