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  #1  
Old Apr 21, '10, 2:36 pm
Roger1 Roger1 is offline
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Default How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder(BPD).

My wife of 20+ yrs. has had a mean and abusive nature about her and it has gotten worse especially lately toward the teenagers as they have added more stress just being teenagers. CAF Forum poster, Bkoz, posted some web sites that describe pretty accurately our situation. These are some of the symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder:

From the Web Site:

http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a102.htm

“Borderline Personality Disorder is a relatively recent addition to the American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). Accordingly, the majority of practicing mental health professionals graduating prior to 2000 have not been trained on the diagnosis and the treatment of this complex disorder as part of their professional curriculum.”

There are 1-2hr. questionnaires that the Professionals use to determine if someone is Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

Here are some of the symptoms;

Mother In Law used a lot of shame to raise my wife and her siblings:

“Adults shamed as children fear intimacy and tend to avoid real commitment in relationships.”

“Adults shamed as children frequently feel defensive when even a minor negative feedback is given.”

“Adults shamed as children frequently blame others before they can be blamed.”

“Adults shamed as children often feel angry and judgmental towards the qualities in others that they feel ashamed of in themselves. This can lead to shaming others.”

“Mothers with BPD, for instance, are characteristically volatile and have difficulty controlling intense, inappropriate anger that is often precipitated by environmental changes and/or intense abandonment fears. Their strong outbursts of anger can be detrimental to the developing child, and many children of mothers with BPD are victims of verbal and/or physical abuse. Suggest that “a mother’s hostility, rage, and destructive behavior may be disguised as love, making it difficult for a child to trust his or her own perceptions of reality.”

“Being mean, cruel, or cold-hearted; verbally, relationally, or physically abusive; humiliating and demeaning of others; willingly and willfully engaging in acts of violence against persons and objects; active and open belligerence or vengefulness; using dominance and intimidation to control others.”

“a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.”

The Mayo Clinic:
“Relationships are usually in turmoil. People with BPD often experience a love-hate relationship with others. They may idealize someone one moment and then abruptly and dramatically shift to fury and hate over perceived slights or even misunderstandings. This is because people with the disorder have difficulty accepting gray areas — things are either black or white. For instance, in the eyes of a person with BPD, someone is either good or evil. And that same person may be good one day and evil the next.”

We have 3 children. Marriage has been sexless, .ie. meaning we are intimate less than 10 times/yr, she is Catholic but distrust the Church and very critical of the Church publicly and in front of our children.

Has anyone dealt with this Disorder before or have a list of books, web sites or additional resources.

I am not sure not sure if my next step is to educate myself or look for a Therapist/Counselor who could test/determine if my wife actually has this Disorder.

Bkoz - please feel free to jump in with additional info and thoughts you have compiled.
  #2  
Old Apr 21, '10, 3:17 pm
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Khrystyne Khrystyne is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1 View Post
How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder(BPD).

My wife of 20+ yrs. has had a mean and abusive nature about her and it has gotten worse especially lately toward the teenagers as they have added more stress just being teenagers. CAF Forum poster, Bkoz, posted some web sites that describe pretty accurately our situation. These are some of the symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder:

From the Web Site:

http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a102.htm

“Borderline Personality Disorder is a relatively recent addition to the American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). Accordingly, the majority of practicing mental health professionals graduating prior to 2000 have not been trained on the diagnosis and the treatment of this complex disorder as part of their professional curriculum.”

There are 1-2hr. questionnaires that the Professionals use to determine if someone is Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

Here are some of the symptoms;

Mother In Law used a lot of shame to raise my wife and her siblings:

“Adults shamed as children fear intimacy and tend to avoid real commitment in relationships.”

“Adults shamed as children frequently feel defensive when even a minor negative feedback is given.”

“Adults shamed as children frequently blame others before they can be blamed.”

“Adults shamed as children often feel angry and judgmental towards the qualities in others that they feel ashamed of in themselves. This can lead to shaming others.”

“Mothers with BPD, for instance, are characteristically volatile and have difficulty controlling intense, inappropriate anger that is often precipitated by environmental changes and/or intense abandonment fears. Their strong outbursts of anger can be detrimental to the developing child, and many children of mothers with BPD are victims of verbal and/or physical abuse. Suggest that “a mother’s hostility, rage, and destructive behavior may be disguised as love, making it difficult for a child to trust his or her own perceptions of reality.”

“Being mean, cruel, or cold-hearted; verbally, relationally, or physically abusive; humiliating and demeaning of others; willingly and willfully engaging in acts of violence against persons and objects; active and open belligerence or vengefulness; using dominance and intimidation to control others.”

“a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.”

The Mayo Clinic:
“Relationships are usually in turmoil. People with BPD often experience a love-hate relationship with others. They may idealize someone one moment and then abruptly and dramatically shift to fury and hate over perceived slights or even misunderstandings. This is because people with the disorder have difficulty accepting gray areas — things are either black or white. For instance, in the eyes of a person with BPD, someone is either good or evil. And that same person may be good one day and evil the next.”

We have 3 children. Marriage has been sexless, .ie. meaning we are intimate less than 10 times/yr, she is Catholic but distrust the Church and very critical of the Church publicly and in front of our children.

Has anyone dealt with this Disorder before or have a list of books, web sites or additional resources.

I am not sure not sure if my next step is to educate myself or look for a Therapist/Counselor who could test/determine if my wife actually has this Disorder.

Bkoz - please feel free to jump in with additional info and thoughts you have compiled.

Not to be curt with an answer, but you would be surprised at just how many people do have a personality disorder. As I learned quickly while working in a psychiatric clinic, I gained A LOT of insight and teaching from the doctors on this particular topic and it is very sad. I needed to learn quickly how to deal with and interact with these particular patients, it became very exhausting.

It looks like from your description of your situation that there could be a strong possibility of BPD, but only by seeking out a psychologist and/or pschiatrist will you know the diagnosis.
Just from my experience I would encourage you to seek out one of the above rather than a counselor, you need to seek out a doctor. I personally would go to a psychologist first and tell that doctor your situation, after speaking with your wife of course. I would treat this gently as you do not know what the real diagnosis is, it could be multiple things AND some things you might not even know about, your wife as well. You'd also be surprised at what some good therapy can do, metamorphises truly.

The psychologist will want to see your wife and you, seperately and together, generally. A part of the diagnosis is your marriage state and that includes you as well......it takes two to tango as they would say.

I wouldn't so much go head long into the psych. books until you contact a doctor and have a meeting.

Where I live there is a small group of Catholic doctors/counselors, what a blessing.
I would call your diocese first and ask them if they have any referrals.
Next, if you do have health insurance you need to call and ask to see if you have any mental health/behavioural health care coverage. It is a carve out of benefits seperate from your basic medical, so starting there will help. And then call the doctors, remember too that going to see a psych. doctor your'e going to be wanting a good fit, so if you aren't comfortable after a couple of sessions you can ask to be referred out. You have that right.

God Bless You and I pray God leads you to the right doctor!
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  #3  
Old Apr 21, '10, 3:26 pm
EsclavoDeCristo EsclavoDeCristo is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1 View Post
How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder(BPD).

My wife of 20+ yrs. has had a mean and abusive nature about her and it has gotten worse especially lately toward the teenagers as they have added more stress just being teenagers. CAF Forum poster, Bkoz, posted some web sites that describe pretty accurately our situation. These are some of the symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder:

From the Web Site:

http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a102.htm

“Borderline Personality Disorder is a relatively recent addition to the American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). Accordingly, the majority of practicing mental health professionals graduating prior to 2000 have not been trained on the diagnosis and the treatment of this complex disorder as part of their professional curriculum.”

There are 1-2hr. questionnaires that the Professionals use to determine if someone is Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

Here are some of the symptoms;

Mother In Law used a lot of shame to raise my wife and her siblings:

“Adults shamed as children fear intimacy and tend to avoid real commitment in relationships.”

“Adults shamed as children frequently feel defensive when even a minor negative feedback is given.”

“Adults shamed as children frequently blame others before they can be blamed.”

“Adults shamed as children often feel angry and judgmental towards the qualities in others that they feel ashamed of in themselves. This can lead to shaming others.”

“Mothers with BPD, for instance, are characteristically volatile and have difficulty controlling intense, inappropriate anger that is often precipitated by environmental changes and/or intense abandonment fears. Their strong outbursts of anger can be detrimental to the developing child, and many children of mothers with BPD are victims of verbal and/or physical abuse. Suggest that “a mother’s hostility, rage, and destructive behavior may be disguised as love, making it difficult for a child to trust his or her own perceptions of reality.”

“Being mean, cruel, or cold-hearted; verbally, relationally, or physically abusive; humiliating and demeaning of others; willingly and willfully engaging in acts of violence against persons and objects; active and open belligerence or vengefulness; using dominance and intimidation to control others.”

“a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.”

The Mayo Clinic:
“Relationships are usually in turmoil. People with BPD often experience a love-hate relationship with others. They may idealize someone one moment and then abruptly and dramatically shift to fury and hate over perceived slights or even misunderstandings. This is because people with the disorder have difficulty accepting gray areas — things are either black or white. For instance, in the eyes of a person with BPD, someone is either good or evil. And that same person may be good one day and evil the next.”

We have 3 children. Marriage has been sexless, .ie. meaning we are intimate less than 10 times/yr, she is Catholic but distrust the Church and very critical of the Church publicly and in front of our children.

Has anyone dealt with this Disorder before or have a list of books, web sites or additional resources.

I am not sure not sure if my next step is to educate myself or look for a Therapist/Counselor who could test/determine if my wife actually has this Disorder.

Bkoz - please feel free to jump in with additional info and thoughts you have compiled.

I am new to BPD myself. I have found the forum at BPDfamily.com very helpful. So far (haven't finished yet) the book "Walking on Eggshells" has been helpful too. I bought it at borders books but you can find it online too.

I started seeing a counselor recently about a loved one who I suspect has some personality disorder (not sure if its BPD or another one) doing the same thing you are doing; trying to see if this person has BPD or not. Be aware, a counselor will NOT diagnose your wife simply by your testimony. Instead they will try to help you talk through things and do some healing on your own too. Since I know they wont help me figure out if my loved one has BPD or not, I try to use the counselor for

#1 Validation - Having a loved one with a PD can make you feel so isolated and alone and make you question yourself for thinking they have a problem.

#2 Healthy ways of coping - For me, learning how to deal with the situation in health ways is important. The book "Walking on Eggshells" will help you do this too.

Hope this helps! God bless you!
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  #4  
Old Apr 21, '10, 4:21 pm
Angels Unaware Angels Unaware is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

I would second what Khrystyne said about getting an official diagnosis before you delve into how to deal with someone with BPD. The diagnosis isn't made on the basis of how the person was parented, and just because your MIL was shaming to your wife it does not mean she has BPD. Your wife may simply be an abusive person, and she may be that way because of how she was parented, but not necessarily have a mental disorder.

There is some degree of oversimplifcation in a lot these websites, and there is a tendency that some publishers have to suggest that if you were parented in some way then you must have a personality disorder. But in fact, a lot of people are parented poorly and don't have personality disorders or adjustment problems. On the other hand, BPD is being reclassified by some doctors as Emotional Dysregulation Disorder, and there is evidence that the disorder is completely biological in some cases, and not the result of abuse.

There are a lot of symptoms that come together in BPD, and not everyone presents the same way. If your primary observation about your wife is that she is abusive, then in that case, you can suggest counseling and suggest a diagnosis. In reality, though, she may refuse to evaluated. If that is what happens, then you are left with the question of how you as a husband deal with abuse, and don't worry about diagnosing her.

What a psychologist would probably suggest to you at this point is that you seek counseling for yourself and your children regardless if your wife seeks treatement, because your wife's abuse has affected the whole family system. You may never know if she has a mental illness if she doesn't seek treatement, but you can decide how you are going to deal with the abuse.
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  #5  
Old Apr 21, '10, 4:45 pm
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Trishie Trishie is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

Roger, I feel sadness for you, your wife, your teenagers; and ask the Holy Spirit to heal and protect you all, and to help you all to find the best understanding, the wisest means and responses to deal most wholesomely and helpfully with your inter-personal family relationships, and each of you, your healthy and loving perceptions of yourselves and each other.

God bless,

Warmly, Trishie
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JESUS who died once for all persons
who gives Yourself wholly in Communion to billions throughout time
please pray in me for every person
as if each person is the only loved one.
JESUS please welcome each person with love, healing, and great joy!
Thank You JESUS


Mother Mary at the wedding feast of Cana (John 2:1-12)
though JESUS protested it was not yet time for miracles
you successfully interceded with Him for a family's temporal need
please now intercede with your divine Son
for each person's temporal and spiritual needs.
Thank you Mother


JESUS please grant our prayer for this person


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  #6  
Old Apr 21, '10, 5:09 pm
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Rascalking Rascalking is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

All I will say to this is that there is a limit one can, and should take.

If the roles where reversed, (male with a possible Boderline Personality Disorder) what would people say?

Just a thought.
  #7  
Old Apr 21, '10, 6:43 pm
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

It all depends on how well she is able to control herself. I had anger management issues for a long time until I finally was diagnosed and put on meds and given counseling. I haven't really lost my temper since then. It is a total transformation.
Try to see your wife as ill and in need of treatment, and also as a child of God. I would ask her to go see a psychiatrist.
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  #8  
Old Apr 22, '10, 5:22 am
pcromwell pcromwell is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1 View Post
How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder(BPD).

My wife of 20+ yrs. has had a mean and abusive nature about her and it has gotten worse especially lately toward the teenagers as they have added more stress just being teenagers. CAF Forum poster, Bkoz, posted some web sites that describe pretty accurately our situation. These are some of the symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder:

From the Web Site:

http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a102.htm

“Borderline Personality Disorder is a relatively recent addition to the American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). Accordingly, the majority of practicing mental health professionals graduating prior to 2000 have not been trained on the diagnosis and the treatment of this complex disorder as part of their professional curriculum.”

There are 1-2hr. questionnaires that the Professionals use to determine if someone is Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

Here are some of the symptoms;

Mother In Law used a lot of shame to raise my wife and her siblings:

“Adults shamed as children fear intimacy and tend to avoid real commitment in relationships.”

“Adults shamed as children frequently feel defensive when even a minor negative feedback is given.”

“Adults shamed as children frequently blame others before they can be blamed.”

“Adults shamed as children often feel angry and judgmental towards the qualities in others that they feel ashamed of in themselves. This can lead to shaming others.”

“Mothers with BPD, for instance, are characteristically volatile and have difficulty controlling intense, inappropriate anger that is often precipitated by environmental changes and/or intense abandonment fears. Their strong outbursts of anger can be detrimental to the developing child, and many children of mothers with BPD are victims of verbal and/or physical abuse. Suggest that “a mother’s hostility, rage, and destructive behavior may be disguised as love, making it difficult for a child to trust his or her own perceptions of reality.”

“Being mean, cruel, or cold-hearted; verbally, relationally, or physically abusive; humiliating and demeaning of others; willingly and willfully engaging in acts of violence against persons and objects; active and open belligerence or vengefulness; using dominance and intimidation to control others.”

“a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.”

The Mayo Clinic:
“Relationships are usually in turmoil. People with BPD often experience a love-hate relationship with others. They may idealize someone one moment and then abruptly and dramatically shift to fury and hate over perceived slights or even misunderstandings. This is because people with the disorder have difficulty accepting gray areas — things are either black or white. For instance, in the eyes of a person with BPD, someone is either good or evil. And that same person may be good one day and evil the next.”

We have 3 children. Marriage has been sexless, .ie. meaning we are intimate less than 10 times/yr, she is Catholic but distrust the Church and very critical of the Church publicly and in front of our children.

Has anyone dealt with this Disorder before or have a list of books, web sites or additional resources.

I am not sure not sure if my next step is to educate myself or look for a Therapist/Counselor who could test/determine if my wife actually has this Disorder.

Bkoz - please feel free to jump in with additional info and thoughts you have compiled.
  #9  
Old Apr 22, '10, 6:02 am
pcromwell pcromwell is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

Over the last 10 years I have had to deal with personality disorders in my immediate family. I have spent a lot of time getting caught up on this issue. Reading, counseling, etc.,. It is so complicated. My best advice is to do what I ended up doing and my situation and things have improved greatly. I started going to daily mass (4 - 5x/wk), I then started spending at least an hour a day in front of the Blessed Sacrament (praying the rosary, reading about the church,etc.,), Then, I started going to confession at least once a month. I have been really trying to stay in the State of Grace. If I sinned I was back in the confessional booth the next day. I also, for almost a year, fasted on Wed and Fri. ( I want to get back to that). My situation has improved. My wife has really joined the cause and now she is going to daily mass and Eucharistic Adoration and always listening to Catholic Radio. I am praying that the children will follow our lead. The Church, I believe, is a cure for all personality disorders. It takes you away from the self centeredness of the disorder and focus's you on His Church and Heaven. I will say a prayer for you today. It is a very long road to be on, but I am, by far, better off today than I was two and a half years ago.
  #10  
Old Apr 22, '10, 6:15 am
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

It doesn't matter if she has a personality disorder or is just plain old mean.

What matters is she is abusing your children.

To allow that behavior to continue is itself abuse. Your first allegiance and duty is to protect your children.
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ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.
  #11  
Old Apr 22, '10, 6:29 am
jules11 jules11 is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

I was with a man for 7 years that has BPD. I cannot tell you the damage he has done to me and my children, (not his children)
I put up with emotional, verbal, physical and financial abuse from this man.
It has torn my children and me apart. My family is in ruins and terrible things have happened to my once, happy and well balanced children. We are all suffering from it still and I ended it two years ago. I am imagining it will take many years to recover.
When I finally got out, I looked back and saw it all for what it was, and I went into a deep depression. While you are living it, you are simply trying to survive and your mind downplays the abuse, just so you can get through day to day.
Living this everyday will be damaging your children for the rest of their lives.
Noone should put up with abuse of this kind. And they very rarely seek help or get better.
My biggest regret is staying as long as I did. It is no way to live.
Your children deserve better...
  #12  
Old Apr 22, '10, 6:33 am
jules11 jules11 is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

By the way, The Facing the facts forum was a God send to me... It was the only place that people understood what I was going through.
Join the forum and find out as much as you can. It is a wonderful place and the people are very supportive. I found it just a lifeline to me and I met some fantastic people.
  #13  
Old Apr 22, '10, 8:40 am
bkoz bkoz is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

I think that if there is a recurring theme on dealing with people with personality disorders it is this; You can not change them. You might (and should) attempt to involve them in professional counseling. She will most likely reject counseling, however. Or agree to it, but quit after a few sessions.

The only thing you can control is yourself. That includes things like setting boundaries around what you are willing to accept. That might be something like “I will not participate in any conversation where I feel as if I am being mistreated”. When that happens I will leave the situation, whether that means hang up the phone, leave the room or leave the house.

The other thing you can do is learn her triggers and attempt to avoid them. And learn to not escalate. BPDs often have irrational explosive reactions to seemingly nothing. The natural tendency is to explain or rationalize with them. BIG MISTAKE. Instead, learn to validate their feelings (not their behavior or rationale, but their feelings). This can be very difficult to do, but can go a long way to defuse potentially explosive situations.

And, of course, counseling for yourself can be very helpful. A good therapist can really help you make sense of things and give you practical advice. Also, people in relationships like these sometimes exhibit co-dependent tendencies and could use help in maintaining a healthier approach.

Also, having a friend that you can talk can be very therapeutic. I went through a long period of time where I internalized things and ended up in an unhealthy place with times of depression.
  #14  
Old Apr 22, '10, 12:27 pm
Roger1 Roger1 is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

Thanks everyone for your advise, insight and prayers for my family and I.

A couple of things I have started today.

- Contacted Catholic Social Services for referrals of Catholic Psychologist - None in our area but there are a couple of PhD Family and Marriage Therapist, so this may have possibilities.

- Checked on insurance coverage for Mental Health treatment - We have Insurance.

- Continued reading on-line a little, but it is exhausting.

After thinking further about my strategy I have two plans on paper:

Plan A - I think my wife understands there is some sort of problem. This past weekend she raged at the children and had all three of them in tears for and hour or two. So I think she may be open seeing a Counselor. Because her Psyche is so feelings based, I am not sure she would be open to tele Counseling or would stick with that mode of therapy.

Probably over the weekend I will bring the subject up of general Family and Marriage counseling and see if she will go, then find the best person in town to see. If we can get started like this I think a good professional will be able to see a Personality Disorder trend and I will be able to meet with the Dr. one on one. Because no one knows for sure if this is BPD until a formal evaluation is done.

Plan B - If she will not go to Counseling, then I'll seek out the best Therapist I can find either local or tele Therapist for myself and children.

Will continue daily Mass as much as possible, say the Rosary, attend Confession on First Saturday's, and continue asking our Lord for his mercy and blessings.

This has been and continues to be a heavy cross to carry in life and if anyone has additional thoughts and ideas please post. I am sure there are many other families struggling with Personality Disorders.
  #15  
Old Apr 22, '10, 12:50 pm
former Catholic former Catholic is offline
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Default Re: How should we deal with a Mean Spirited and Abusive Spouse? My wife may have Borderline Personality Disorder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1 View Post
if anyone has additional thoughts and ideas please post. I am sure there are many other families struggling with Personality Disorders.
Buy a small video camera. Film her in action. Identify and name unacceptable behaviors as they arise. Teach your children to do the same.
Footage is hard, irrefutable evidence. Footage is something everyone can look at and analyze and that can't simply be written off or minimized or reduced to a case of he-said, she-said, it-takes-two-to-tango.... and footage doesn't need to grant you its cooperation to go for professional help.
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Prayer Intentions

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