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  #1  
Old Apr 22, '10, 7:11 pm
eucharisteo eucharisteo is offline
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Question Christian & Missionary Alliance

Any body out there with this background? Anything to help me understand what they believe would be helpful. Closure issues. Someone likened it to Old Time Methodist, which I'm still clueless to.
  #2  
Old Apr 22, '10, 9:09 pm
gurneyhalleck1 gurneyhalleck1 is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

There's a Christian Missionary Alliance in my town and they're NUTS! I had a girl in my classroom from that cult and I'll tell you, the parents were just loony. They had the girl pulled out of my room because I supposedly "wouldn't let her witness her faith to other students or write about it all in her reading journal." The interesting thing was, I never once said any of those things or gave her that vibe at all. They don't let their daughter go anywhere, do anything, think anything, and they think teachers are all out to brainwash their daughter into evolution and sin. They wouldn't let her go to the science camp up in the foothills because the camp was "not a safe Christian envrionment." They are both the most miserable people, never happy, always grouchy. They talk to you saying, "well, yeah, we've been doing fine, thanks to Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!" or "yeah, I got three furlough days a month but thanks to my faith in my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ I'll manage." They wear it on their sleeves. I know the sister of one of the parents; she's Catholic and they treat her like a parriah, scum. They tell the niece and nephew that Catholics are statue-worshippers who go to hell.

So that's my one experience with the Christian Missionary Alliance, that couple. And if they represent that group in even the smallest way, keep 'em far away from yours truly! Since that girl left my class, my stress is GOOONNNNE. Praise God for the move!

I think they're some kind of Assembly of God or Pentecostal type bunch but I'm not sure. I'm surprised they don't have a compound in our town...

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Originally Posted by eucharisteo View Post
Any body out there with this background? Anything to help me understand what they believe would be helpful. Closure issues. Someone likened it to Old Time Methodist, which I'm still clueless to.
  #3  
Old Apr 23, '10, 5:47 am
eucharisteo eucharisteo is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

That's what I thought. That's my mom's family and they are 2.5 times the size of my dad's side of the family. That is why I avoid my mom's family and what I suspected. They always treated me like a virus. They never seem to be happy about anything and gossip more than anyone I've ever met. My wife's family are all Church of Christ and many of them have similar beliefs about us. Not all, but some. I was exposed to this group in elementary school and that is why I fell prey to their antics after a bad experience in the Catholic Church. But history brought me back home. I always tried to follow my conscience. But in a world determined to mock God I could never figure out what was what. I try to warn people against mixed marriages in faiths that believe such false accusations without understanding the real historical facts and that the Church is filled with sinners.

No wonder I was so messed up in my faith growing up. It took the death of my mom and dad to finally figure things out. Had they set good examples for me I might have figured it out earlier.
  #4  
Old Apr 23, '10, 6:53 am
Contarini Contarini is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

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Originally Posted by eucharisteo View Post
Any body out there with this background? Anything to help me understand what they believe would be helpful. Closure issues. Someone likened it to Old Time Methodist, which I'm still clueless to.
They're really not "Old Time Methodists," though probably their greatest pastor/theologian, A. W. Tozer, could be described that way.

The CMA originated around the turn of the 20th century as part of the broad "holiness" movement. The Holiness movement originated in the 19th century within Methodism (that's the "Old Time Methodist" connection), but quickly spread beyond Methodism in a somewhat mutated form. This broader "holiness" or "deeper life" movement (often linked to the Keswick Convention in England, which is still going on today) taught that through consecrating yourself entirely to God you could receive a fuller measure of the Holy Spirit and be enabled to live a "victorious" Christian life. This teaching deeply influenced British and American evangelicalism across the board. But there were certain denominations that basically originated around this teaching, and the CMA was one. Like so many Protestant denominations, the CMA didn't set out to be a denomination. The founder, A.B. Simpson, was a Presbyterian minister if I remember correctly, and originally just wanted to establish a network of Christians who were committed to the deeper Christian life and to missionary work. But in the end they became a separate denomination. The distinctive CMA teaching was the "Fourfold Gospel," emphasizing four aspects of Christ's work: Savior, Sanctifier, Healer, and Coming King. In other words, they believe in the standard evangelical doctrine of salvation, plus a broadly "holiness" doctrine of sanctification, plus the possibility divine healing today, plus a premillennial eschatology. A lot of CMA teaching sounds very similar to Pentecostalism, but Simpson did not accept the Pentecostal teaching about the gift of tongues. So the CMA are sort of like the AoG without tongues-speaking, if you can imagine that!

Today I would describe them as more or less generic evangelicals. GurneyHalleck's description of this particular couple sounds like typical conservative evangelical behavior. Certainly not all CMA folks are like that, and this is by no means unique to the CMA. There's a very unusual CMA congregation in my town, where many of my students attend, which I described to someone yesterday as people who swear and drink and love Jesus (not entirely fair, but they aren't your typical conservative evangelicals). The CMA tend to have a fairly contemporary worship style, in my experience, and to be very open to anything that will help them evangelize.

I should add that my experience with the CMA is based largely on two sources: the CMA congregations near me in East Tennessee growing up, which stood out by their more contemporary evangelical style in contrast to the old-fashioned fundamentalism of many other churches in the area, and this very weird congregation in my present home town. My wife's perceptions of them are closer to gurneyhalleck's--her grandmother was CMA growing up, and many in her family thought she had backslidden hopelessly when she married a Methodist minister (even though he was a very conservative one). I think the CMA has changed a lot over the years (my wife doesn't have current experience with them), but I won't claim that my experience is representative.

I do want to put in a plug for Tozer, though (I respect Simpson very much as well). He's one of the greatest evangelical "popular theologians" of the 20th century. Self-educated, widely read, and deeply respectful of patristic and medieval Christianity. His book The Knowledge of the Holy is basically a popularization of Augustine and Anselm, and he frequently acknowledged a great debt to medieval mystics such as Bernard of Clairvaux and Julian of Norwich. He edited a book called Christian Mystical Verse which includes a lot of Catholic poetry (which bothers some of Tozer's more fundamentalist admirers).

Edwin
  #5  
Old Apr 23, '10, 7:57 am
eucharisteo eucharisteo is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

Your clarification really explains a lot of what I didn't understand before. Mome did not bring us up in that faith. She seemed to bring us to Methodist churches, maybe Presbyterian, but later on when was 9 and 10 she allowed me to visit the Church of Christ, pretty big where your at in Tennessee. My grandmother had very long hair and always kept it up in a bun. I really don't know how faithful my aunts and uncles are to this day because distance seemed to be the best policy for me growing up. They were relentless in things they said about my Catholic faith after I became Catholic. Before I was practicing Catholicism when my dad finally stepped up to the plate I remember lots of anti-Catholic rhetoric, from where I believe I gathered much of my misinformation and false ideas. Once someone plants that in you it takes a life time of learning and experience to root out. After I left for 18 years to the Church of Christ again, I was running from bad example priests and Catholics that didn't practice their faith. The onces that acted like they did were hypocrites which I dubbed most if not all Catholics as hypocrites, forked tongued ones. Most of them are no longer practicing Catholicism but are in other religions now, Assembly of God mostly. Even an aunt the vehemently proclaims she's as Catholic as they get, rejects Church authority and lots of Catholic teachings. She believes in the rapture and all that Assembly of God beliefs. The only Catholic we could find to stand in as godparent to our children believes in freedom of choice and contraception and carries on about the pope. I really didn't know this but later found an old seminary friend of mine that is now a vocation director and he is standing in as godfather now. Wonderful man.

Little girl wants her muffins now. Gotta go.
  #6  
Old Apr 23, '10, 9:33 am
gurneyhalleck1 gurneyhalleck1 is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

I have had similar experiences with "Church of Christ." I had a best friend all through high school and college who was deeply involved in that bunch. He worked and worked through high school to get me to join the youth group at his church and de-Catholicize me. My other friend who knew him said that when I was around he'd TRASH Catholics with the typical idolatry, pagan-trapping, un-Christian scum arguments. He had NO knowledge of church history, just a bible and some brain-washin'. When I became an Anglican after we graduated he was happy because he felt 'at least it's a step in the right direction.' LOL They don't celebrate Christmas, Easter, Lent, Advent, etc. They don't allow instruments in church, they're a trip....

Quote:
Originally Posted by eucharisteo View Post
That's what I thought. That's my mom's family and they are 2.5 times the size of my dad's side of the family. That is why I avoid my mom's family and what I suspected. They always treated me like a virus. They never seem to be happy about anything and gossip more than anyone I've ever met. My wife's family are all Church of Christ and many of them have similar beliefs about us. Not all, but some. I was exposed to this group in elementary school and that is why I fell prey to their antics after a bad experience in the Catholic Church. But history brought me back home. I always tried to follow my conscience. But in a world determined to mock God I could never figure out what was what. I try to warn people against mixed marriages in faiths that believe such false accusations without understanding the real historical facts and that the Church is filled with sinners.

No wonder I was so messed up in my faith growing up. It took the death of my mom and dad to finally figure things out. Had they set good examples for me I might have figured it out earlier.
  #7  
Old Apr 23, '10, 9:44 am
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Nine_Two Nine_Two is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

I find these experiences interesting. I've met two people from C&MA. One was a promanent politician in a public setting, so we can probably discount that meeting since he would be someone who knows how to act in public.

The other was a Pastor, and he generally seemed quite sane (quirky sense of humour though).

However I've met enough people from that side of the protestant spectrum to know that there are a number of people who aren't very well balanced, and by virtue of being a Catholic they will see you as an enemy.
  #8  
Old Apr 23, '10, 10:14 am
Publisher Publisher is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

Alliance churches are very similar to Free Methodists and Nazarenes. When I was a kid....many moons ago...there was an Alliance church up the street from us. My parents were Nazarenes and we didn't live within walking distance to a Nazarene church....one day some people came by advertizing the Vacation Bible School for a week in July....my mom thought that would be just the ticket to get me and my brother out of her hair for a week during the summer....I saw the word "school" and was really distressed we'd have to go to "school" wheen I was on summer vacation....it was one of the best times I had as a kid....going to the Christian & Missionary Alliance vacation Bible school...went back every year until we moved across town.
  #9  
Old Apr 23, '10, 10:46 am
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Zooey Zooey is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Contarini View Post
They're really not "Old Time Methodists," though probably their greatest pastor/theologian, A. W. Tozer, could be described that way.

The CMA originated around the turn of the 20th century as part of the broad "holiness" movement. The Holiness movement originated in the 19th century within Methodism (that's the "Old Time Methodist" connection), but quickly spread beyond Methodism in a somewhat mutated form. This broader "holiness" or "deeper life" movement (often linked to the Keswick Convention in England, which is still going on today) taught that through consecrating yourself entirely to God you could receive a fuller measure of the Holy Spirit and be enabled to live a "victorious" Christian life. This teaching deeply influenced British and American evangelicalism across the board. But there were certain denominations that basically originated around this teaching, and the CMA was one. Like so many Protestant denominations, the CMA didn't set out to be a denomination. The founder, A.B. Simpson, was a Presbyterian minister if I remember correctly, and originally just wanted to establish a network of Christians who were committed to the deeper Christian life and to missionary work. But in the end they became a separate denomination. The distinctive CMA teaching was the "Fourfold Gospel," emphasizing four aspects of Christ's work: Savior, Sanctifier, Healer, and Coming King. In other words, they believe in the standard evangelical doctrine of salvation, plus a broadly "holiness" doctrine of sanctification, plus the possibility divine healing today, plus a premillennial eschatology. A lot of CMA teaching sounds very similar to Pentecostalism, but Simpson did not accept the Pentecostal teaching about the gift of tongues. So the CMA are sort of like the AoG without tongues-speaking, if you can imagine that!

Today I would describe them as more or less generic evangelicals. GurneyHalleck's description of this particular couple sounds like typical conservative evangelical behavior. Certainly not all CMA folks are like that, and this is by no means unique to the CMA. There's a very unusual CMA congregation in my town, where many of my students attend, which I described to someone yesterday as people who swear and drink and love Jesus (not entirely fair, but they aren't your typical conservative evangelicals). The CMA tend to have a fairly contemporary worship style, in my experience, and to be very open to anything that will help them evangelize.

I should add that my experience with the CMA is based largely on two sources: the CMA congregations near me in East Tennessee growing up, which stood out by their more contemporary evangelical style in contrast to the old-fashioned fundamentalism of many other churches in the area, and this very weird congregation in my present home town. My wife's perceptions of them are closer to gurneyhalleck's--her grandmother was CMA growing up, and many in her family thought she had backslidden hopelessly when she married a Methodist minister (even though he was a very conservative one). I think the CMA has changed a lot over the years (my wife doesn't have current experience with them), but I won't claim that my experience is representative.

I do want to put in a plug for Tozer, though (I respect Simpson very much as well). He's one of the greatest evangelical "popular theologians" of the 20th century. Self-educated, widely read, and deeply respectful of patristic and medieval Christianity. His book The Knowledge of the Holy is basically a popularization of Augustine and Anselm, and he frequently acknowledged a great debt to medieval mystics such as Bernard of Clairvaux and Julian of Norwich. He edited a book called Christian Mystical Verse which includes a lot of Catholic poetry (which bothers some of Tozer's more fundamentalist admirers).

Edwin
What Contarini said.
I really, really like Tozer, too.
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  #10  
Old Apr 23, '10, 10:50 am
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Zooey Zooey is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Publisher View Post
Alliance churches are very similar to Free Methodists and Nazarenes. When I was a kid....many moons ago...there was an Alliance church up the street from us. My parents were Nazarenes and we didn't live within walking distance to a Nazarene church....one day some people came by advertizing the Vacation Bible School for a week in July....my mom thought that would be just the ticket to get me and my brother out of her hair for a week during the summer....I saw the word "school" and was really distressed we'd have to go to "school" wheen I was on summer vacation....it was one of the best times I had as a kid....going to the Christian & Missionary Alliance vacation Bible school...went back every year until we moved across town.
Yeah, that's the holiness connection. Although, I have to say, neither CMA or COTN seemed as strict about [ insert miscellaneous idea of your choice] as Free Methodists, but then, I never attended either one either. Except for Youth For Christ meetings as a teennager.....
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  #11  
Old Apr 23, '10, 1:47 pm
eucharisteo eucharisteo is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Publisher View Post
Alliance churches are very similar to Free Methodists and Nazarenes. When I was a kid....many moons ago...there was an Alliance church up the street from us. My parents were Nazarenes and we didn't live within walking distance to a Nazarene church....one day some people came by advertizing the Vacation Bible School for a week in July....my mom thought that would be just the ticket to get me and my brother out of her hair for a week during the summer....I saw the word "school" and was really distressed we'd have to go to "school" wheen I was on summer vacation....it was one of the best times I had as a kid....going to the Christian & Missionary Alliance vacation Bible school...went back every year until we moved across town.
VBS is great fun for kids and the adults. My wife and I helped out at VBS.
  #12  
Old Apr 23, '10, 1:55 pm
Publisher Publisher is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooey View Post
Yeah, that's the holiness connection. Although, I have to say, neither CMA or COTN seemed as strict about [ insert miscellaneous idea of your choice] as Free Methodists, but then, I never attended either one either. Except for Youth For Christ meetings as a teennager.....
I know that modern Nazarenes are pretty "lax" in some areas.....forty-five years ago however when I was a kid however, Nazarenes were pretty strict....

*No movie theaters
*No circus
*No dancing....my parents sent a note to my school when I was in Jr.High that I was to be exempted from dance class when PE use to have modern dance classes as part of the PE cirriculum
*No tobacco
*No alcohol
*No buying or selling on Sunday
*Women were to wear no jewelery other than their wedding band and a plain unadorned watch...no ear rings and minimal make-up IF ANY
*Men could wear a plain unadorned watch and wedding band.
*No cussing
*Divorce was forbidden for any reason
*No mixed bathing....no boys and girls, men or women swimming together unless related by marriage or family.
*No sex education in school...I was exempted on religious grounds from sex ed as well.
*No low cut or dresses above the knee.
*No long hair for men...must be above the collar
*No one could teach or serve in the church unless they were full tithers.

Things have changed quite a bit in two and a half decades.
  #13  
Old Apr 23, '10, 2:38 pm
gurneyhalleck1 gurneyhalleck1 is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

So let me get this straight---the key word is "no?" That would be a great Nazarene CAF screen name: Dr. No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Publisher View Post
I know that modern Nazarenes are pretty "lax" in some areas.....forty-five years ago however when I was a kid however, Nazarenes were pretty strict....

*No movie theaters
*No circus
*No dancing....my parents sent a note to my school when I was in Jr.High that I was to be exempted from dance class when PE use to have modern dance classes as part of the PE cirriculum
*No tobacco
*No alcohol
*No buying or selling on Sunday
*Women were to wear no jewelery other than their wedding band and a plain unadorned watch...no ear rings and minimal make-up IF ANY
*Men could wear a plain unadorned watch and wedding band.
*No cussing
*Divorce was forbidden for any reason
*No mixed bathing....no boys and girls, men or women swimming together unless related by marriage or family.
*No sex education in school...I was exempted on religious grounds from sex ed as well.
*No low cut or dresses above the knee.
*No long hair for men...must be above the collar
*No one could teach or serve in the church unless they were full tithers.

Things have changed quite a bit in two and a half decades.
  #14  
Old Apr 23, '10, 3:50 pm
Cat Cat is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

Fightin' words, people. You have touched a very, very tender nerve in me.

My husband and I and our two daughters LOVED our Christian and Missionary Alliance Church in Raleigh, North Carolina. We loved the pastors, we loved the people, we loved everything about that church. I'm almost crying now thinking about that church and how much we loved it.

Yes, I'm Catholic now and I love Holy Mother Church, but that doesn't mean that I have stopped loving my C and MA friends.

I don't have time to defend them now. Later.
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  #15  
Old Apr 23, '10, 6:32 pm
eucharisteo eucharisteo is offline
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Default Re: Christian & Missionary Alliance

Cat, I appreciate you wanting to defend, but please not here. Please give this thread to me for closure purposes. I don't need to be drug out over the coals again. Losing my mom was the hardest thing I've been through next to the loss of my brother.

Mom's family may not have been the wonderful family you came from. More power to you. My mother wrote me out of her will. She had issues. She gave it all to my playboy little brother ... 1 year younger than me. She also pushed for his girlfriend to have an abortion and had the nerve to ask us when our son was conceived if we were going to have it. I certainly don't want to here it.
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