Question on her suffering...

IsaacSheen · #1 Mar 23, '05, 6:43 pm

Just a thought, not really a question...

They say that she shouldn't have to suffer in this "state"...right?

Then they say that it is ok to pull her food and water, (which would be incredibly painful to anyone who could feel suffering), because she won't be able to feel the suffering in her present "state"....right?

So, if she can't feel that suffering...how can she feel the "suffering" of being in her current "state"??

My mind is jumbled tonight, not as clear as it normally is, so maybe my logic is off...anyone care to weigh in?

masondoggy · #2 Mar 23, '05, 6:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaacSheen

Just a thought, not really a question...

They say that she shouldn't have to suffer in this "state"...right?

Then they say that it is ok to pull her food and water, (which would be incredibly painful to anyone who could feel suffering), because she won't be able to feel the suffering in her present "state"....right?

So, if she can't feel that suffering...how can she feel the "suffering" of being in her current "state"??

My mind is jumbled tonight, not as clear as it normally is, so maybe my logic is off...anyone care to weigh in?

Well according to Michael Savage...Liberalism is a mental disorder.

I think he's on to something.

IsaacSheen · #3 Mar 23, '05, 6:48 pm

Liberal (n): Someone who is so open minded their brain fell out...

masondoggy · #4 Mar 23, '05, 7:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaacSheen

Liberal (n): Someone who is so open minded their brain fell out...

Oh the laughing hurts, I have a chest cold! Stop it!

Steve Andersen · #5 Mar 24, '05, 4:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaacSheen

Just a thought, not really a question...

They say that she shouldn't have to suffer in this "state"...right?

Then they say that it is ok to pull her food and water, (which would be incredibly painful to anyone who could feel suffering), because she won't be able to feel the suffering in her present "state"....right?

So, if she can't feel that suffering...how can she feel the "suffering" of being in her current "state"??

My mind is jumbled tonight, not as clear as it normally is, so maybe my logic is off...anyone care to weigh in?

I think the point they are trying to make is that, yes tube in or out there will be certain nerve impulses BUT if there is no consciousness it doesn't matter

Sort of like the tree falling in the forest with no one to hear it

Or they may say that 2 weeks of suffering is better than 40 years
Or there’s no suffering either way so why go through the exercise?

How much of what is essentially us is tied up in consciousness?
What is consciousness?

If I loose an arm I'm still me and the arm isn't me any more

If the brain is damaged or destroyed am I still me? How much damage is too much?
We understand the right to turn off ventilators on the brain dead but where is the line between severe damage and death?
If there is truly nothing left but the autonomic system has the soul already departed?

Scott_Lafrance · #6 Mar 24, '05, 5:27 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaacSheen

Liberal (n): Someone who is so open minded their brain fell out...

shannin · #7 Mar 24, '05, 5:30 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaacSheen

Just a thought, not really a question...

They say that she shouldn't have to suffer in this "state"...right?

Then they say that it is ok to pull her food and water, (which would be incredibly painful to anyone who could feel suffering), because she won't be able to feel the suffering in her present "state"....right?

So, if she can't feel that suffering...how can she feel the "suffering" of being in her current "state"??

My mind is jumbled tonight, not as clear as it normally is, so maybe my logic is off...anyone care to weigh in?

Excellent points. My mind is also jumbled about this.

I work in a liberal judge's office and everyone here thinks that Terri should be put to death because she doesn't have a good quality of life. They also point out to me that this was her wish (according to her husband).

I've come to the conclusion that liberals view the world in a totally corrupted way.

Shannin

**fix** · #8 Mar 24, '05, 5:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Andersen

I think the point they are trying to make is that, yes tube in or out there will be certain nerve impulses BUT if there is no consciousness it doesn't matter

Sort of like the tree falling in the forest with no one to hear it

Or they may say that 2 weeks of suffering is better than 40 years
Or there’s no suffering either way so why go through the exercise?

How much of what is essentially us is tied up in consciousness?
What is consciousness?

If I loose an arm I'm still me and the arm isn't me any more

If the brain is damaged or destroyed am I still me? How much damage is too much?
We understand the right to turn off ventilators on the brain dead but where is the line between severe damage and death?
If there is truly nothing left but the autonomic system has the soul already departed?

The key to the debate is the definition of "brain death"-- a term for which there is no universally accepted definition. Pope John Paul, in his message to the Pontifical Academy, observes that from the Christian perspective, "the moment of death for each person consists in the definitive loss of the constitutive unity of body and spirit." However, the Pope concedes that this definition does not provide an adequate response to medical questions about "brain death."

The Pope cites his predecessor, Pope Pius XII, who said that "it is for the doctor to give a clear and precise definition of death and of the moment of death." John Paul salutes the scientists who are now studying this question for the Pontifical Academy.

The Pope mentions that in considering the topic, the scientists can count on the support of Vatican officials, "especially the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith."

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=35044

Catholic medical authority raps 'brain death' criteria

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/feb/05021106.html

ThornGenX · #9 Mar 24, '05, 5:55 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by masondoggy

Well according to Michael Savage...Liberalism is a mental disorder.

I think he's on to something.

I think Michael Savage has done a great job of trying to defend Terri's life.

Yesterday, he had one of Terri's former nurses on (the one who told us about Michael Schiavo trying to kill Terri with insulin shots).

Marie · #10 Mar 24, '05, 5:59 am

I would say her suffering is great...the hospice and the executioners actually have a prepared Exit Protocal you can read on line. It was prepared for Terri last time. Cheryl Ford RN got a copy of it. Scroll down the blog to read...

Not for the faint of heart.

Exit Protocaol

masondoggy · #11 Mar 24, '05, 6:15 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie

I would say her suffering is great...the hospice and the executioners actually have a prepared Exit Protocal you can read on line. It was prepared for Terri last time. Cheryl Ford RN got a copy of it. Scroll down the blog to read...

Not for the faint of heart.

Exit Protocaol

That is infuriating! I thought they said she can't feel pain?

THEN WHY ARE THEY PRESCRIBING HEAVY PAIN MEDICATIONS?

This is evil at it's worst! I am a nursing student and I am having serious doubts how I'm going to be able to work around such people! I don't see how I'll be able to hold a job, because there is NO WAY I will participate in this charade!

shannin · #12 Mar 24, '05, 10:20 am

There is evil at work, indeed. God help the United States.

I don't think this is a coincidence that it's happening during Holy Week.

Shannin

wabrams · #13 Mar 24, '05, 10:24 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by masondoggy

That is infuriating! I thought they said she can't feel pain?

THEN WHY ARE THEY PRESCRIBING HEAVY PAIN MEDICATIONS?

This is evil at it's worst! I am a nursing student and I am having serious doubts how I'm going to be able to work around such people! I don't see how I'll be able to hold a job, because there is NO WAY I will participate in this charade!

They do put you on heavy pain killers; morphine to be exact. A full syringe of it every 4 hours, dripped under the tongue to it is absorbed into the blood stream quicker.

Lisa N · #14 Mar 24, '05, 10:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie

I would say her suffering is great...the hospice and the executioners actually have a prepared Exit Protocal you can read on line. It was prepared for Terri last time. Cheryl Ford RN got a copy of it. Scroll down the blog to read...

Not for the faint of heart.

Exit Protocaol

O'Reilly has been blathering that there is 'no way Terri feels any pain." He knows because he's quoting some doc who's the heard of pallitive care at some hospital. He says "her brain doesn't recognize pain and doesn't function." Would someone with medical knowledge please correct him? AGRRRRRRHHHHHH!

Lisa N

Steve Andersen · #15 Mar 24, '05, 6:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by masondoggy

That is infuriating! I thought they said she can't feel pain?

THEN WHY ARE THEY PRESCRIBING HEAVY PAIN MEDICATIONS? ......

It seems likely that it is to control reflective reactions

I think that no one ever said that there is no feeling as in no nerve impulses
The nerves are still intact
But there just no awareness of the feeling

Like I said, a tree falling in the forest