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  #1  
Old Jun 22, '04, 11:18 pm
Chrismasfetus Chrismasfetus is offline
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Talking Seventh-day Adventists

How come Seventh-Day Adventists do not eat pork or shellfish? What Bible verses do they use to support those beliefs?

and...

What Bible verses do Catholics use to refute that belief?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old Jun 22, '04, 11:22 pm
Calvin Calvin is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismasfetus
How come Seventh-Day Adventists do not eat pork or shellfish? What Bible verses do they use to support those beliefs?

and...

What Bible verses do Catholics use to refute that belief?

Thanks!
SDA thinks the entire Old Testament is still in force today. As such they do not eat pork or shellfish or worship on Sunday. They think the entire non-SDA Church has fallen into serious apostasy because we do not uphold the law and worship on Sunday (which they call "the mark of the beast").

As for the second part, you can't fight fire with fire. I've tried. SDA can quote Bible like no-man's business.

-C
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  #3  
Old Jun 23, '04, 10:10 am
Malachi4U Malachi4U is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Most SDA's I know are devout anti-Catholics. They do not eat any meat and are 'vegans' (sp?). They also believe in 'soul sleep' and can also quote Bible verses to prove points. Try disprovving 'soul sleep' for a tough assignment!
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  #4  
Old Jun 23, '04, 12:09 pm
Britta Britta is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin
SDA thinks the entire Old Testament is still in force today. As such they do not eat pork or shellfish or worship on Sunday. They think the entire non-SDA Church has fallen into serious apostasy because we do not uphold the law and worship on Sunday (which they call "the mark of the beast").

As for the second part, you can't fight fire with fire. I've tried. SDA can quote Bible like no-man's business.

-C
I'm curious because my daughter was at a preschool and her teacher is SDA, or at least was at the time, it has been a few years. I believe she was very uncomfortable that my daughter did the sign of the cross before praying at lunchtime. My daughter mentioned that her teacher said "we are not supposed to do that" and she wanted to know why it was wrong.

I very nicely questioned her teacher and she gave the impression that my daughter must have misunderstood??? I'm not sure exactly what was originally said but my daughter was comfortable doing the sign after that. As a matter of fact, she eventually had her best friend doing it too - they are also Catholic.

My question is this....They believe in the OT, but what about the NT? What is their belief in Jesus? Is it more like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Christian?

God Bless
  #5  
Old Jun 23, '04, 12:46 pm
Calvin Calvin is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Britta
My question is this....They believe in the OT, but what about the NT? What is their belief in Jesus? Is it more like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Christian?

God Bless
I almost dated an SDA girl. I visited her church a few times, took Bible study classes with their leaders and read heaps of material (pro and con) on the group. I came to the conclusion that it is a group with cult-like characteristics (though I wouldn't call it a cult) and their beliefs were fundamentally incompatable with my beliefs as a Reformed Christian.

I can't imagine a serious Catholic coming to the opposite conclusion!

The key to SDA is Ellen White. (You can google for more information.) She was their founding prophet. The group was formed from a millenial group that predicted Jesus would return on a certain date in the 1800s. That date came and went and Ms. White spiritualized the prophecies and stated that what happened was that Jesus cleaned out the "heavenly temple" and that now the "judgement of the living and the dead" is going on (apparently it takes time to judge everyone) and when that is over he will come again.

So this cleaning of the heavenly temple thing was a spiritual restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ. (A lot of similarities to Mormonism and JW here. These groups all shared similar beginnings in 19th century Protestant apocalyptic groups.) Of course they say they accept the New Testament but they also say the Church fell into serious apostosy when she told believers to ignore the laws of Moses and not worship on Satudray and keep kosher. (I went around and around with them on Acts 15 and the "on the first day of the week" verses -- they wouldn't budge.)

They believe Jesus is God and He is Savior. There is, however, a heavy emphasis on works-righteousness because they think that you have to keep the entire law of Moses. (Which is really hard -- I have a cotton polyester blend on now!)

The writings of White function as their magisterium. She interpreted many passages of Scripture and those are the interpretations they stick to. (She was also into vegetarian dieting so they do that too even though meat is allowed in the law of Moses.) From these writings they have other doctrines that are unusual like "soul sleep." You can google most of this for more information. I also understand some SDA parishes are moving away from White's writings and focus more on a Bible-only approach.

So she was cute, she was good looking but I wasn't going to start something while she was a devoted SDA member. There was too much dross mixed in with the gold.

-C
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  #6  
Old Jun 23, '04, 3:49 pm
SPH1 SPH1 is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:
How come Seventh-Day Adventists do not eat pork or shellfish?
Because they are modern day Judaizers.

Quote:
They also believe in 'soul sleep' and can also quote Bible verses to prove points. Try disprovving 'soul sleep' for a tough assignment!
Soul sleep implies that the soul still exists; it's not annihilation, as I understand it.

Perhaps one could work with soul sleep to get into purgatory: a third place/state besides Heaven and Hell. They seem to already accept a third place/state.

Quote:
I believe she was very uncomfortable that my daughter did the sign of the cross before praying at lunchtime
SDA's seem to be orthodox regarding the Trinity - although there may be off-shoots rejecting Sunday worship who also reject the Trinity.

I think we should make the sign of the cross at all times. For it leaves no doubt which God you're praying to or invoking.

Can you imagine at public prayers - at public school graduations, governmental meetings, etc. - if one made the sign of the cross in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit? As it is, public prayer seems to invoke a generic God...what I call idolatry.

IMO, most Christians who do not use the sign of the cross are either ashamed of the cross or the Trinity: or both.

Or they just don't want to seem Catholic....
  #7  
Old Jun 24, '04, 10:18 am
JoaoMachado JoaoMachado is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Another thread on this Forum Eat Pork Loose Salvation?

Joao
  #8  
Old Jun 27, '04, 10:46 am
SDA2RC SDA2RC is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrismasfetus
How come Seventh-Day Adventists do not eat pork or shellfish? What Bible verses do they use to support those beliefs?
and...
What Bible verses do Catholics use to refute that belief?
Thanks!
Hi Christine,
Adventists do not eat pork and shellfish etc. because they consider them unclean foods as listed in Leviticus Chapter 11. Adventist's have a habit of picking and choosing the OT Laws that they adhere to and the ones they wont. For example, While SDA's will not eat pork because of Lev. 11, they do not follow the instruction given in Lev. 12 and 13 regarding Infectious Skin diseases and Childbirth purification... why? This inconsistency is easy to point out.

As far as why Non-SDA Christians do eat pork, it is because the Bible in several places shows us that Christ and his Church have declared all meats clean. The most obvious teaching of this is in Mark 7:18-20, where Mark specifically states that Christ declared all meats clean. While Adventists will say that Christ did not really say that and was only talking about hand washing, the text is extremely clear.

Furthermore, 1 Timothy 4:1-5 explains to us that those who teach us to abstain from certain foods are misled. It goes on to tell us that all food can be eaten with thanksgiving to Christ.

Finally, Romans 14:20 again declares all meats clean. Romans 14:1-10 is also a great text to use when dealing with "hardcore" Adventist's who also teach that we should all be vegetarian... LOL

Anyway.. hope this was helpful!

Brandon
  #9  
Old Jun 27, '04, 10:50 am
SDA2RC SDA2RC is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin
As for the second part, you can't fight fire with fire. I've tried. SDA can quote Bible like no-man's business.
-C
ROTFL... It is true, a devoted SDA can generally quote several scriptures to "prove" their position, as well as scriptures to defend against those commonly used to attack their beliefs.

However, if one can get them off of the objections that they are "ready" for (and they are ready for objections) then they have a much harder time.

Brandon
  #10  
Old Jun 27, '04, 10:58 am
SDA2RC SDA2RC is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi4U
Most SDA's I know are devout anti-Catholics. They do not eat any meat and are 'vegans' (sp?). They also believe in 'soul sleep' and can also quote Bible verses to prove points. Try disprovving 'soul sleep' for a tough assignment!
Piece of cake!!! LOL You just gotta know their weak points that they have not been taught to deal with. For example, they are Bible only folk, so how did Moses get to be on the Mt. of Transfiguration with Jesus, when the Bible CLEARLY says that he died and God buried him.

They will say that he was translated or resurrected, challenge them to prove that from the Bible... they can't...and instead of saying that God resurrected him, it specifically says that God buried him... now why would God bury him just to resurrect him? Most Adventist's don't have an answer, and you now have your first exception to their rule..

They often use Eccl. 9:5 to prove soul sleep, yet Eccl 9:1-4 can easily be used to disprove their interpretation of it, and many do not know how to answer objections using those verses.

Unfortunately I know this from being SDA and now discussing these things daily with SDA friends and family on both sides, who try to challenge our conversion to the Catholic faith.

brandon
  #11  
Old Jun 27, '04, 11:06 am
SDA2RC SDA2RC is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Britta
My question is this....They believe in the OT, but what about the NT? What is their belief in Jesus? Is it more like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Christian? God Bless
Hi Britta,
SDA's are by nature of their beliefs very Anti-Catholic(the "institution" not the people) and most are very sincere Christians.

SDA's accept the NT and believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God. They believe in Jesus and the Trinity in the same way that Catholics do...

While SDA's officially hold to Christian teachings, they are so borderline on many issues that it is not hard, IMHO, for the members to cross the line into cultish beliefs, and I believe that many have/do.

Brandon
  #12  
Old Jun 27, '04, 11:18 am
SDA2RC SDA2RC is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPH1
Soul sleep implies that the soul still exists; it's not annihilation, as I understand it.....
Soul sleep is the belief that at death there is no part of the person, either soul or spirit, that continues on in any form. I.e. the entire person - body and soul die or "sleep" and cease to exist. In fact, usually those who teach soul sleep believe that a person IS a soul, but does not HAVE a soul. The doctrine teaches that there is no knowledge or passing of time once one dies, you are simply non-existant. Soul sleep proponent teach that someone who dies will wake as their next thought to Christ's coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPH1
Perhaps one could work with soul sleep to get into purgatory: a third place/state besides Heaven and Hell. They seem to already accept a third place/state......
No, since they believe that there is no such thing as life after death, they do not believe in purgatory, or that anyone is in heaven or hell until the 2nd coming. (Anyone, that is except the Godhead, angels, and moses, elijah, and enoch)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPH1
SDA's seem to be orthodox regarding the Trinity - although there may be off-shoots rejecting Sunday worship who also reject the Trinity.......
The entire SDA Church rejects Sunday worship. However, the mainstream SDA church does teach the Trinity correctly, but this was not always the case. It was not until 1980 that it was officially ratified as part of their fundamental beliefs. In fact, the early "pioneers" of the SDA Church were for the most part, extremely anti-trinitarian. It was not until a man by the name of LeRoy Froom wrote a book called "The Coming of the Comforter" that the church really began to change her view on the Trinity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPH1
IMO, most Christians who do not use the sign of the cross are either ashamed of the cross or the Trinity: or both.
Or they just don't want to seem Catholic....
I think the answer is C... they dont want to seem Catholic.

Peace
Brandon
  #13  
Old Jun 27, '04, 5:01 pm
Calvin Calvin is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDA2RC
ROTFL... It is true, a devoted SDA can generally quote several scriptures to "prove" their position, as well as scriptures to defend against those commonly used to attack their beliefs.

However, if one can get them off of the objections that they are "ready" for (and they are ready for objections) then they have a much harder time.

Brandon
... and I'm a recovering Fundamentalist! I can do Bible wars pretty good myself.

The SDAs were the best. The second best was the Church of Christ (Boston Movement). One of my friends got converted to the CC and him and some elders came to visit me for several hour plus Bible arguments. After four sessions they gave up on me! But the SDA kept calling!

Seriously though, I can see why Catholics and Christians can fall in with these groups. They usually have a pretty good presentation and can point out "their" verses very quickly. Seeing verses written down in the Bible and having someone explain them to you is powerful. You can think you are getting the "real" truth from the Scriptures. Unless you know enough to fire back "well what about these verses over here..." or (for Catholics) "well the Church teaches this about those verses..." I can see how most folks get taken in.

These groups also seem to have a hight community content too. Lots of people ready to be your friend if you join up. Everytime I drive by an SDA church, "happy sabbath" rings in my memory.

-C
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  #14  
Old Jun 28, '04, 6:42 am
SDA2RC SDA2RC is offline
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Default Re: Seventh-day Adventists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin
... and I'm a recovering Fundamentalist! I can do Bible wars pretty good myself.

Everytime I drive by an SDA church, "happy sabbath" rings in my memory.

-C
ROTFL... if only it was a memory.. I still hear it every week from my our friends and family LOL It's all good, I just call them up early on Sunday's and wish them happy Lord's Day.. boy that'll get 'em going...hehe

brandon
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