Infertile Women are Worthless?

LabChick · #1 Jun 23, '04, 8:46 am

While driving to work yesterday, I heard the guest on Catholic Answers Live (Kyle or Carl ?? something) tell a caller who asked about infertility that women who aren't able to have children are not as valuable in the eyes of the Catholic Church as women who reproduce multiple times.

Further, another caller was told that adoption is only a last resort and not really a "natural" way to create a family.

Is this really what the Church believes??

I ask because I was with a friend who had abdmoninal surgery following an auto accident at the age of 15 and it left her sterile. She's preparing for RCIA in the fall, but had serious doubts after hearing that.

puppylove · #2 Jun 23, '04, 8:53 am

In no way, shape, or form are women who are infertile not as valuable because they can't have children. Are you kidding? I can't believe that you could have possibly heard this on a Catholic radio program. The Catholic church encourages life, ALL LIFE!!! God has a plan for all of us whether we can bear children or not. Please encourage your friend to continue in RCIA.

lilder · #3 Jun 23, '04, 9:16 am

That was a program with Karl Keating. I heard it too. But I think the meaning Karl was trying to get across was misunderstood. He was trying to explain why the church is against IVF and other immoral fertilty methods. I do not recall him saying that an infertile woman would be less valuable. I know the church does not feel that way.

Karl is on the board once in a while though, and I know the apologists from Catholic Answers is on all the time. Maybe you should post the question in the Ask an Apologist thread if you would like an "official" answer.

Lilder

LabChick · #4 Jun 23, '04, 9:36 am

I'll do that. I was hoping I misunderstood.

From listening to the program and reading his newsletter, I do feel that Mr. Keating frequently makes an issue that women should not be included in the Church in any way, except as mothers.

Brad · #5 Jun 23, '04, 9:39 am

The Church highly esteems adoption. After all, Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus. Adoption is a wonderful gift to a child. I know many who have adopted and the joy it brings to them. All God's children are loved and need a mother and a father.

UxoretMater · #6 Jun 23, '04, 11:21 am

I agree with Lilder. I am listening to the program on re-run. Karl Keating was addressing the issues of in vitro and other test tube means of conception.

He said that adoption is an option for those who can't concieve without the risky scientific, potentially immoral procedures.

He points out the Church's pastoral approaches to couples who can't concieve naturally. Also they mentioned the Pope Paul VI Institute in Omaha.

JimO · #7 Jun 23, '04, 11:29 am

If the Church didn't place much value on women who couldn't have kids, then the good Sisters wouldn't be of much use, and neither would us guys for that matter.

Please don't let a misunderstanding drive your friend from the faith. The Pope wrote and encyclical on the incredible value of women, and if I wasn't such an amateur apologist, I could give you the name. And if I was really good, I could give you the Latin name!

Somebody out there help me out!

Black Jaque · #8 Jun 23, '04, 11:38 am

Jim O,

Mulieris Dignitatum that's the name of JPII's encyclical on the Dignity of Women.

I would like to read these words of Keating. I sincerely doubt that is what he is trying to say. Perhaps he needs to chose his words more carefully.

What gives you the impression that Keating doesn't appreciate female involvement in the church except as mothers?

Or is it just that he stands by the all-male ordination?

**Karl Keating** · #9 Jun 23, '04, 12:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Jaque

Jim O,

I would like to read these words of Keating. I sincerely doubt that is what he is trying to say. Perhaps he needs to chose his words more carefully.

What gives you the impression that Keating doesn't appreciate female involvement in the church except as mothers?

Or is it just that he stands by the all-male ordination?

Maybe the problem is that some people need to listen more carefully!

Yesterday's show is available for online listening or for downloading at http://www.catholic.com/radio/calive.asp

LabChick · #10 Jun 23, '04, 1:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Jaque

Jim O,

Mulieris Dignitatum that's the name of JPII's encyclical on the Dignity of Women.

I would like to read these words of Keating. I sincerely doubt that is what he is trying to say. Perhaps he needs to chose his words more carefully.

What gives you the impression that Keating doesn't appreciate female involvement in the church except as mothers?

Or is it just that he stands by the all-male ordination?

All-male ordination has nothing to do with it. I don't think women should be ordained either!

I need to get a copy of Mulieris Dignitatum . I know I have a lot of issues and I think it could help clear them up.

The more this goes on, I'm thinking about leaving the Church!

JimO · #11 Jun 23, '04, 1:14 pm

LabChick,

Don't let the posts on these forums bother you. As I stated in another post, here we have a forum for all these amateur apologists to practice. It's like the "Coach" has finally put me in the game after sitting the bench for so long. In our excitement to express our opinions or convert somebody, I'm afraid many of us have forgotten the Gospel message. Besides, I attended a communications workshop recently and it has been shown that e-mailing (which this essentially is) is one of the worst modes of communication and the most likely to result in a misinterpretation of the person's intentions. Oh well!

Blessings,

Jim

rfk · #12 Jun 23, '04, 1:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Keating

Yesterday's show is available for online listening or for downloading at http://www.catholic.com/radio/calive.asp

Thanks for the link.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LabChick

While driving to work yesterday, I heard the guest on Catholic Answers Live (Kyle or Carl ?? something) tell a caller who asked about infertility that women who aren't able to have children are not as valuable in the eyes of the Catholic Church as women who reproduce multiple times.

I listened to the show. The question occurred about 14 minutes into the show. Your statement is utter BS. He said nothing of the kind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LabChick

From listening to the program and reading his newsletter, I do feel that Mr. Keating frequently makes an issue that women should not be included in the Church in any way, except as mothers.

Again, I've read enough if his writing to know that charge is utterly groundless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LabChick

The more this goes on, I'm thinking about leaving the Church!

I don't know if you came to the forum with a pre-conceived political agenda, or what. It seems like you are simply trying to create a stir, rather than ask genuine questions.

Meghan · #13 Jun 23, '04, 1:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfk

Thanks for the link.

I listened to the show. The question occurred about 14 minutes into the show. Your statement is utter BS. He said nothing of the kind.

Again, I've read enough if his writing to know that charge is utterly groundless.

I don't know if you came to the forum with a pre-conceived political agenda, or what. It seems like you are simply trying to create a stir, rather than ask genuine questions.

My my....I just registered so I could pose a question about a family member. Is this mudslinging indicative of how the forums usually are??? It might be amusing if this were Jerry Springer.

Just kidding.

LabChick · #14 Jun 23, '04, 2:27 pm

Bob,

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfk

I listened to the show. The question occurred about 14 minutes into the show. Your statement is utter BS. He said nothing of the kind.

My statement is not "utter BS." In fact, if you'll pay attention, it's not even a statement. It was a question. I was asking if I heard something correctly. I did not. I admit I misheard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfk

Again, I've read enough if his writing to know that charge is utterly groundless.

Again, I misheard. I confused Karl Keating with someone who has a similar (to me) voice and name. My radio is not equipped with a television screen, so sometimes it's difficult to tell the difference between speakers on different programs if they are similar in voice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfk

I don't know if you came to the forum with a pre-conceived political agenda, or what. It seems like you are simply trying to create a stir, rather than ask genuine questions.

I have no political agenda. In fact, I don't even like politics of any kind. I am merely voicing my opinion and asking for clarification. I was under the impression that is what the forums are for.

Black Jaque · #15 Jun 23, '04, 2:50 pm

Lab Chick,

The more what goes on?

I'm confused. I certainly hope you wouldn't leave the church on account of some sour internet thread.

I've listened to and read Karl Keating enough to know that your questions just didn't sound like him.

That's all.

And it appears it wasn't him.

I'm curious still what statements you are getting these impressions from. In the eyes of God, a woman and a man are equally cherished - the Church teaches that.

I've seen some people insist that the Church should teach that man and woman are the same - which it appears not to be your position. I just wanted to clarify that.

Finally, yes, get Mulieris Dignitatum.