Why?

[VetA]

Originally Posted by Atheism123

Well, this is supposed to be a forum asking answers from catholics, so I come here to do so.

I want to know why you believe in Christianity/Judaism/Pastafarnarianism/Whatever. I'm not some random trolling atheist, I genuinely want to know why you believe the things you do.

because every time i go to church i can feel the presence of God. when i think about how our bodies are put togther i think there is no possible way all these cells could come togther randomly. whenever i pray my prayers are alwayes answerd, just not alwayes in the way expect. i read the bible and i feel that God is speaking to me even when i do not understand. i could go on and on, but i will stop here

[adrift]

Originally Posted by Atheism123

True, but it also says he created the world in seven days, a few thousand years ago. The world (and universe) have been proved by many methods to be much, much older then this. For example, blue-shift and carbon dating, as well as the fact we can observe light that has taken more then those thousands of years to travel here.

Although the bible discribes creation in seven days the Catholic Church does not teach that they are literal 24 hour days. The bible teaches a religious truth not a scientific one. The point of the creation story is that God created the world.

As for your few thousand years, I know of nothing in the bible that gives such a date. The Catholic Church doesn't espouse such a concept. It is one that is held by fundamentalist.

If if find a watch on a tree stump, I know that someone made it. I guess you have to believe that the world always existed if you think it wasn't created I think that is harder to believe than the world was created.

[StillWondering]

Originally Posted by Atheism123

True, but it also says he created the world in seven days, a few thousand years ago. The world (and universe) have been proved by many methods to be much, much older then this. For example, blue-shift and carbon dating, as well as the fact we can observe light that has taken more then those thousands of years to travel here.

This is how I explain the genesis story of Adam and Eve to my 10 year old students. This is not high level theology I used, but do know that getting into the bible seriously is a great deal of intellectual work and discovery.

The explanation for the kids is that what is written about the creation story is true and real and really happened symbolically. There really was two first humans and they are our first parents. God really did create the world from nothing and everything we can see, no matter how far we look, was created by God. However, we must understand the language. If I were to tell you my wife left me and my heart is broken. You would know what I meant and know that my heart is not physically broken. So to understand the creation story, we must understand what is it actually saying in it's own language.

The kids said "Oh, I get it!" So here above gets you two basic points, Adam and Eve were our first parents and God created the world out of nothing. There is much more to be learned from the early books of Genesis, but that depends on where one is at in understanding and openness to growth.

[StillWondering]

To answer the original question honestly:

I believe in God and the teachings of the Catholic Church because God gave me the graces to believe in Him and His Church.

That is my honest answer. It may not make sense to a non-believer. When I was very little, I looked up and knew there was something there who I could not see that loved me more than my heart can hold. It is not about a lovey-dovey feeling--I can get that around my stuff animals which aren't even alive. It is this deep and vast love that protects me, cares for me, and guides me in my life. This is how I knew to look beyond myself. A great saint tells me that "When you think you found God, know that you have already been found." This doesn't mean that God didn't know us before, but that we are found because God has thought us into being. I recognized this truth before I even knew how to write or do mathematics. It really is a grace (a gift from God).

[arkenbergcn]

Originally Posted by Atheism123

Well, this is supposed to be a forum asking answers from catholics, so I come here to do so.

I want to know why you believe in Christianity/Judaism/Pastafarnarianism/Whatever. I'm not some random trolling atheist, I genuinely want to know why you believe the things you do.

Simply put, I believe in God because without a higher creator (God) who loves us and places value on us life would be of no value. Without a supreme creator (God) the value of life would be left up to the opinions of each individual. If this was the case them you could never say that Hitler was wrong for killing the Jews since he felt it was OK to do so. Hitler’s opinion was that Jews were not persons and that their lives had no value. He was obviously wrong, but we can say this only if life has value. Secondly, when you look around and see the things of this world they are too perfect to have been created just by chance. Those who think that people exist because of random acts of the natural world have to ask who created this random process. An object in motion tends to stay in motion, but it has to have had a force which acted upon it before it will move. Again, even motion points to a creator (God). Lastly, the God of Judaism/Christianity for me seems to make the most sense. Much of my Catholic Faith I do not understand - this I take on Faith because I do not have the mind of the creator. History has also shown and proven that the God of Judaism/Christianity has actually revealed himself to us throughout time. No pagan "god" has ever revealed themselves to thier believers because they do not exist. Also, multiple "god's" exsiting at the same time makes no sense either because which "god" would be the ruling one? Anyway, I that's my quick 2 cents worth and I hope it helps.


PS the creation account in Genesis is not to be taken as a scientific account of how long the world was created. Moses - the author of Genesis was not trying to give a scientific account about the creation of the world when he wrote Genesis. He was trying to convery the fact that God created Man above all the other creatures on the earth to rule the earth and worship God. The "Theory of Evolution" was the farthest thing from the mind of Moses when he wrote Genesis.

[Joshua27]

I'll copy and paste a paper I was working on the attempt to explain this later today...I just wanted to "bump" it (and also auto-subscribe).

[Joshua27]

Here is why I believe:

I am who I am…I exist.

I know this to be true. By any other name, I would still be me, in mind, body and soul. Regardless of how I change myself – throughout my life – I know the truth (me) will never change. Even when I’m gone, I am me. This I know to be truth!

But how do I know I exist?

I know (without a doubt) that I exist simply because I affect the things and people around me. I awoke late from bed today and ran into the bathroom after spending an hour to catch-up on work (I work at home). And in brushing my teeth I realized that I will soon need a new toothbrush. Why? Because my constant use of my brush is causing it to wear…I am affecting a change on the toothbrush.

If I didn't exist, I never would’ve purchased the toothbrush, and it would (perhaps) still rest perfectly in its package at the store; pristine, until another person affects a change on it (buys it or throws it away).

I live in an old apartment, and the floor creeks. So every step I take causes sounds and vibrations to emanate to the neighbors below me. And I know – from science – that every breath I take moves and changes the air in my environment: oxygen turns to carbon dioxide. Even talking to other people is considered a form of “affection”, although I don’t mean it in the traditional sense.

I exist because I affect other things and other people in my world. In other words: “The things I affect reflect my existence.”

But How can I support this premise? Is this truth for other things that exist?

I created a website. You'll agree that “websites exist” (so to say). But why? My website exists because it affects people who visit it. I have products that can be purchased and downloaded; users have a little less money and disk space on their computers if they choose to receive my products. If my website didn’t exist it wouldn’t caused such a effect.

Truth 1: Everything that exists “affects” other things: person, place or thing; living and non-living.

How does something come into existence? How is something created?

Well…if I were to strip away all detail and all specifics; away with all unique complications and differences; spirituality and science…what minimum (bare-bones) process would I find?

Considering my human creation – I know my mother and father had a desire to create a sibling for my brother. They possessed all the resources, both physical and chemical/biological, to make me. Finally, all that was required of them was the work (time) to combine their resources. The result was me; a singularly unique being, created from pieces of my parents. But even if one was an "accident"...they're parents still desired to come together. Even for "rape", there was a parent who desired to come together (even with evil motivation).

What about something as lifeless as my website? What was required to make it?

Again, if I strip everything I’ve done down to its basic process, the result is the same:

1. Desire (Will/Soul) for my website to exist [I say “desire/will” instead of “idea” or “thought” because there are hundreds of ideas and thoughts had by people everyday, but they lack the desire to see them created].

2. Power/Resource (Spirit) – whether knowledge, money, professionals, technology (tools) or content (information & products) to make my website. Others would call these resources forms of Power: as in “knowledge is Power” or “Man Power” or “Money is Power”, etc.

3. Time (Work) to combine all the resources in a successful way to create my website. Effort takes time. Nothing is instantaneous. There is always (at least an infinitesimal) measurement that can be compared between a “past” (the original state) and a “present” (the new state) of anything created. The effort it takes to move between both states; the effort it takes to create, is “work”.

…anything that has been created – whether living or non living – is the result of these three forces; follows this basic process. So...

Truth 2: Desire (Will), Resource (Power) & Time (Work) are the 3 forces of creation.

“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form and was void. And darkness was upon the face of the deep.”

One can be sure that there was a beginning to our planet. Earth did not always exist. But we know it exists because we’re affected by it every day (Truth 1). The earth was created, because everything that “exists” was first created using the same process (Truth 2). But the particulars (or characteristics) of the three forces are scientific “unknowns”. The Source is unknown... So let's solve for the unknown.

<Continued in Part 2...>

[Joshua27]

<...Continuation of Part 1>

Yet we know that for every creation there must be a Force of Will, The Power, and Work (measured in Time)…but something is missing in this equation. These three forces always come from a source. So we must solve the equation for the unknown source (“?”):

Take "Desire(Will)" and "Resource(power)" and "Time(work)" from something to create something else...

? - [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)] = Something that Exists

…if we solve for the unknown, we find…

? = Something that Exists + [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]

In other words, only something that exists – that possesses the added Desire, Resources, and Time – can create something that exists. Let’s prove the equation to find a more simplified answer:

? - [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)] = Something that Exists

…we remove “that exists” from “something”…

{? - [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)] = Something that Exists} / that exists

(?/"that exists") - ([D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]/"that exists") = Something

…And if ? = Something that Exists + [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]…then we can substitute "?" for the answer and simplify…

(Something + [D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]/"that exists") - ([D(W) + R(P) + T(w)]/"that exists") = Something

Something = Something

Truth 3: Something comes from Something (else)…and the common denominator is “that [it; that something] exists”. So only something that exists can create something that exists.

From science we know that “Matter is neither created (from nothing), nor destroyed (absolutely), only transferred (or changed)”. In biology we know that we come from pieces of our parents, possess our parents’ DNA. And in every day life, the things we create could not "be" unless we were here to create them. Everything follows the basic formula for creation: "just take some desire, resource, and time from something that exists".

Interestingly enough, science has also determined that everything, both living and non-living things are made from the same "stuff" (Resources) – science calls it atoms.

So again, if nothing is created (from nothing), only transferred and changed, this means everything that’s created is somehow an offshoot (or a branch) from its root parent/creator, connected through the same common "stuff" (resource/power) that made the parent, but it’s a wholly unique and different creation.

This means that we humans, the planets, our websites and man-made things, are all branches from the same root; connected because we’re made from the same stuff…just in different offshoots and variations. This means one thing...

Truth 4: All branches of creation – living and non-living; man-made and natural; planetary and extra-planetary – can subsequently be traced back to a singular "root"; a source; a parent…this is logic. We're merely not yet intellegent enough to specifically trace the "family tree" all the way back.

Now it’s true that humans wrote the Bible. And whether the Bible was from divine inspiration makes no difference to you…although one could argue that just as a great, great, great grandchild is indirectly from the first parent, so is anything that's created (such as a website...or the Bible) traced back to the root, merely because of Truth 4.

Again all that we are can be traced back to a singular source...that's how life works. By holding onto all defined Truths, we say this Root (this source) was the beginning of "Will" represented as "Father"...has all/complete "Resource & Power" represented as "Holy (meaning "perfect or complete") Spirit (meaning "power")...and performs all "Work" represented as "Son" (meaning "one's right hand", "workmanship of one's Hand" or "worker" [since most people use their right hand to do their work]).

Some Christian denominations differ in the personification of these three forces, but we all believe in these three forces.

<Continued in Part 3...>

[DCNBILL]

Because I have a personel relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Because God has guided the life of me and my family for the past 35 years through thick and thin. Because when I follow His will in my life I am happy and when I sin I am sad.

[greggy53]

Originally Posted by Atheism123

Well, this is supposed to be a forum asking answers from catholics, so I come here to do so.

I want to know why you believe in Christianity/Judaism/Pastafarnarianism/Whatever. I'm not some random trolling atheist, I genuinely want to know why you believe the things you do.

I believe in God because of what we humans are and the condition of the world around us and our place in it. I became a Christian because in my opinion Christianity is the only religion that explains exactly who we are, why we are here and where we are going.

Indeed even for us to ask the question: “Why?”. Says that we are in a very real way different from all the other creatures here on earth…We are the same, and yet very different. Christianity is the only religion that can explain this and how the world got the way it is. How it can be so beautiful, and so deadly at the same time.

I am a Catholic Christian because I believe that historically and spiritually the Catholic Church is the one true Church established by God.

[Joshua27]

<Continued from Part 2>

"God created the world, the animals and man in six days…"

What makes this controversial is the time-frame. We have one group arguing that "god is God, and he can make anything as quickly as HE wants"…while another group dismisses the entire creation story and equally "god", as the originating creator merely because "all of this can not be made in just six days".

Personally, I believe both are correct…but let me explain.

Picture me: Here I am trying to use my limited reasoning powers (resources) to try to figure out what exactly happened back then, just like the original author of Genesis. And why would human reasoning be any different now than back then (we're only between 3000-6000 years old)? We’re not that different.

Time is relative

Albert Einstein proved that time is relative: its rate/affect depends on the perspective of the person experiencing it. Here are a few more facts about time:

1. It may take one person (or “something that exists”) more time than another person to perform a specific task from the first person’s perspective.

2. Our lifespan differs between species: Humans (approx. 100-120yrs), Dogs (approx. 15-25yrs), and certain insects live for only 2 weeks. But - and this is important question - is any lifespan any less of a “lifetime” from that lifeform's perspective?

3. Getting a little more specific, humans didn’t always count days on a 24hr solar cycle, nor was the span of a year always 365 days (as already stated on this thread).

"Six days" (as defined by present-day humans) is false…but it did take Time to create our world. Remember, Time(work) is one of the three forces of creation (Truth 2). And if we stand on our established Laws, thinking about Facts #1 & #2, We can conclude that our 100-year lives is but a flicker (just like the "2-week" insect); a brief moment in the lifetime of the original Being/Source…so a true "six days" could possibly be an unfathomable six trillion years from our perspective.

---

IN FACT...The bible speaks on the difference in time-scale between humans and God:

2 Peter 3:8 - But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Psalms 90:4 - For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.

Now, it's important to understand that people of the past had no concept of "Million", "Billion", or "Trillion". These were too big for them to comprehend. So often when "thousands" is spoken of it's meant to represent "a very, VERY long time".

---

God is Perfection, represented by the number “7”

All throughout the bible, and throughout human civilization, numbers are held to have significant meaning; to be characteristics of the person, place or thing the number represents. We attribute the number “7” to luck and good fortune, and divine perfection.

The number 7 represents divine perfection, so “7” represents God, and anything God initially creates is considered a “perfect” creation (i.e. “and he saw that all was good”).

God is the Alpha (beginning) and Omega (End) of everything…including Time(work) [what we call "Son"].

From our 3rd truth, we determined that everything comes from something, possessing the same "stuff" from the root. From this logic, we must conclude that everything – even Time(work) [what we call "the Son"] – comes from the root source.

So if God is perfect and if God is the beginning and end of all things that exist – even Time(work/Son) – then we must “invert” the relationship between “time” and “work” in relation to us when it comes to a work day.

Huh?

Here’s what I mean: For mankind, a day’s amount of "work" is determined (or lead) by the day [or time of day]. We begin our day’s work because a new day has begun, and we end our day’s work at the end of the finished day.

But for God, however…

If God is the beginning of time and the end of time, then - get this - the "work-day" relationship is turned on its head. So for God, a "Day" is determined when an "amount of work" is finished…and ONLY THEN is a "Day" complete.

So God’s "Days" can’t possibly be on the same timescale as our days…and more to the point, any one of God’s "Days" does not need to be the same length as any other one of God’s "Days", simply because his day is complete only when HE has finished his work, so...

Truth 5: One of God’s “Day” is an “interval, fraction, or portion” of a Perfect amount of time needed by God to do something, which can span days, years, or millennia.

[crazzeto]

Originally Posted by Atheism123

Well, this is supposed to be a forum asking answers from catholics, so I come here to do so.

I want to know why you believe in Christianity/Judaism/Pastafarnarianism/Whatever. I'm not some random trolling atheist, I genuinely want to know why you believe the things you do.

Because as St. Paul says, the evidence of God is all around us. I've come to see his handywork everywhere. I was a cradle catholic, so that helped some.. But St. Paul him self, more specifically his conversion helped keep me from losing faith. Simply put, it makes no sense what so ever if there isn't a God, more over if Christ isn't truely God.

I've also come to truely appriciate the wisdome of genuine Christianity lived in daily life. This one took a lot of work, as over the years my views on many subjects became disored i.e. I didn't see the problem with Gay marriage, I thought not using brith control was stupid etc (yep even with my Catholic roots). My positions on these matters have changed considerbly,

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Originally Posted by Atheism123

True, but it also says he created the world in seven days, a few thousand years ago. The world (and universe) have been proved by many methods to be much, much older then this. For example, blue-shift and carbon dating, as well as the fact we can observe light that has taken more then those thousands of years to travel here.

Very few Christians believe that the creation account is literal. You are beating a dead horse here.

[AlaricTeudisson]

Despite not being Catholic, here is my take on it.

I have pretty much always believed in a god. Just not the God. It has always seemed more reasonable to believe in some sort of creator or at least a unifying force than believing in no god at all. So my search (and God's call) ultimately led me to believing in a Theistic personal God. But, before that happened I explored all sorts of crazy stuff. Absolutely ridiculous now in retrospect. Funny, at the time I considered myself a spiritual and relatively good person. Did not know how bad off and lost I really was.

From there it only took an intensive Wednesday night bible study class (that lasted 36 weeks) for me to become a believer in Jesus Christ.

Now it seems so logical and reasonable to be a Christian. But, I can appreciate where you are coming from, 10 years ago it absolutely did not. For me, God's call took the form of an emptiness inside me. A lack of meaning and purpose for my life and all humanity.

So, I did not jump instantly to being a Christian. It was a winding tortuous path. From impersonal god to Personal God to Jesus.

I will say a prayer that your faith journey will ultimately end up with Christ.

Jeff

[Terry McCann]

Originally Posted by Atheism123

Well, this is supposed to be a forum asking answers from catholics, so I come here to do so.

I want to know why you believe in Christianity/Judaism/Pastafarnarianism/Whatever. I'm not some random trolling atheist, I genuinely want to know why you believe the things you do.

It's hard to explain EXACTLY why I believe. It is a mixture of intellect, research (majored in world religion at Uni and studied religions most of my adult life) and inner feelings, combined with a sense of humilty for my sins. If anything, I would say it is something of a divine mystery. Although I must acknowledge that I have very weak faith.