The Rosary and the promises of Our Lady

[wisdomseeker]

Originally Posted by Ladyofthehouse

I was struggling with confusion about a year before entering the Church. I kept going back and forth between Catholicism and the Presbyterianism in which I'd been raised. I had reached a point of such confusion that I could not even think straight anymore when it came to matters of religion. I had been praying the rosary twice a week (when my little boy was in preschool) for a while and thought that I should just ask Mary to pray for me to know the direction in which I should go. I asked to be set me on the right path to her Son. I remember going to bed that night in tears, but believing that Mary would pray for my guidance. I awoke the next morning with peace in my heart and mind -- a peace I had not known for months. I truly believe this was related to promise #11.

Hope this is of interest to you.

Nice of you to share this. beautifull. i know that Mother would not lead you astray.

[AnneElliot]

The promises are reliable. And I would be extraordinarily cautious about alluding to a Blessed as delusional. (Where did you read this on New Advent?! I can't find it)

Irregardless...

Just pray the Rosary! Nearly half (if not more) of those promises have been reiterated by numerous Saints of the Church.

"If you say the Rosary faithfully until death, I do assure you that, in spite of the gravity of your sins 'you shall receive a never-fading crown of glory.' Even if you are on the brink of damnation, even if you have one foot in hell, even if you have sold your soul to the devil as sorcerers do who practise black magic, and even if you are a heretic as obstinate as a devil, sooner or later you will be converted and will amend your life and will save your soul, if-- and mark well what I say-- if you say the Holy Rosary devoutly every day until death for the purpose of knowing the truth and obtaining contrition and pardon for your sins." St. Louis de Montfort, The Secret of the Rosary

If you are praying the Rosary solely in hopes of obtaining something you desire (i.e., your focus on the 11th Promise), you are not fully praying the Rosary (or at least you are not praying it with devotion... you are simply praying the Rosary as a means to an end). So just pray the Rosary. Trust the promises, but don't view them as a kind of contract that obliges God to grant your petition simply because you prayed a Rosary. That's not how it works.

[dostoyevskyfan]

Thank you ladyofthehouse for sharing your experience. It is helpful. I think it would interesting to see how many people you know who have devoutly prayed the rosary were able to receive all of the sacraments like our Lady promised, as suggested by a sort of "study" by another poster.

I don't pray it everyday, but I think it averages out to everyday because sometimes I say it more than once a day. But what is meant by "once a day"? 5 decades? 15 decades? The luminous mysteries included 20 decades? Don't most traditional catholics reject the luminous? My grandmother taught me how to say the rosary and the one I have is her's. Coincidentaly, it's from Fatima.

I find recitation also helps me resist ____________ (insert sin here).

Originally Posted by AnneElliot

The promises are reliable. And I would be extraordinarily cautious about alluding to a Blessed as delusional. (Where did you read this on New Advent?! I can't find it)

Don't believe me eh? Here it is under the article "rosary" on NA. Sorry if ole Alan was a huge inspiration for you:

"Impressed by this conspiracy of silence, the Bollandists, on trying to trace to its source the origin of the current tradition, found that all the clues converged upon one point, the preaching of the Dominican Alan de Rupe about the years 1470-75. He it undoubtedly was who first suggested the idea that the devotion of "Our Lady's Psalter" (a hundred and fifty Hail Marys) was instituted or revived by St. Dominic. Alan was a very earnest and devout man, but, as the highest authorities admit, he was full of delusions, and based his revelations on the imaginary testimony of writers that never existed (see Quétif and Echard, "Scriptores O.P.", 1, 849). His preaching, however, was attended with much success."

To the E.O. posters, I actually came very close to joining you when I renounced my atheism. I understand your scepticism of the rosary. I think you all have some venerable traditions also, but the rosary is a beautiful thing, and I hope one day we will be in communion again....

[Marie5890]

I have had definite experiences with promise #1 and signal graces. It was startling when they happened.

[AnneElliot]

Originally Posted by dostoyevskyfan

Don't believe me eh? Here it is under the article "rosary" on NA. Sorry if ole Alan was a huge inspiration for you:

"Impressed by this conspiracy of silence, the Bollandists, on trying to trace to its source the origin of the current tradition, found that all the clues converged upon one point, the preaching of the Dominican Alan de Rupe about the years 1470-75. He it undoubtedly was who first suggested the idea that the devotion of "Our Lady's Psalter" (a hundred and fifty Hail Marys) was instituted or revived by St. Dominic. Alan was a very earnest and devout man, but, as the highest authorities admit, he was full of delusions, and based his revelations on the imaginary testimony of writers that never existed (see Quétif and Echard, "Scriptores O.P.", 1, 849). His preaching, however, was attended with much success."

I looked under his name page on New Advent and did not see the statement (or anything resembling), that was why I questioned you.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01246a.htm

Alanus de Rupe

(Sometimes ALAIN DE LA ROCHE).

Born about 1428; died at Zwolle in Holland, 8 September, 1475. Some writers claim him as a native of Germany, others of Belgium; but his disciple, Cornelius Sneek, O.P., assures us that he was born in Brittany. Early in life he entered the Dominican Order, and while pursuing his studies at Saint Jacques, Paris, he distinguished himself in philosophy and theology. From 1459 to 1475 he taught almost uninterruptedly at Paris, Lille, Douay, Ghent, and Rostock in Germany, where, in 1473, he was made Master of Sacred Theology. During his sixteen years of teaching he became a most renowned preacher. He was indefatigable in what he regarded as his special mission, the preaching and re-establishment of the Rosary, which he did with success throughout northern France, Flanders, and the Netherlands. His vision of the restoration of the devotion of the Rosary is assigned to the year 1460. Alanus published nothing during his lifetime, but immediately after his death the brethren of his province were commanded to collect his writings for publication. These were edited at different times and have occasioned much controversy among scholars. His relations of the visions and sermons of St. Dominic, supposed to have been revealed to Alanus, are not to be regarded as historical. His works are published by Graesse in Trésor des livres rare et précieux.

It's interesting they would claim he was delusional in an article about the Rosary, but leave that out when speaking about the man himself. I wonder who these "highest authorities" are who admit this regarding a Blessed?

I will have to do some further investigation myself into the matter. Thanks for pointing me to the source.

[Marie5890]

Originally Posted by AnneElliot

I looked under his name page on New Advent and did not see the statement (or anything resembling), that was why I questioned you.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01246a.htm


It's interesting they would claim he was delusional in an article about the Rosary, but leave that out when speaking about the man himself. I wonder who these "highest authorities" are who admit this regarding a Blessed?

I will have to do some further investigation myself into the matter. Thanks for pointing me to the source.

Here is the link to the page that the above poster was referencing...7th paragraph down

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm

I agree...It's said under one topic but not the other...No further explanation is said...Odd

[AnneElliot]

Originally Posted by Marie5890

Here is the link to the page that the above poster was referencing...7th paragraph down

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm

I agree...It's said under one topic but not the other...No further explanation is said...Odd

I saw that when I looked it up after he gave the fuller reference for his statement.

However, that seems to be the only place where I can find a reference to Blessed Alan de la Roche being "delusional". So I'm naturally curious as to its real source and where it comes from. I contacted the man who runs the site, so I am hoping he can point me to the source of this idea.

[Hesychios]

Originally Posted by dostoyevskyfan

To the E.O. posters, ...

I guess that would be me

Originally Posted by dostoyevskyfan

... I understand your scepticism of the rosary.

I don't have any scepticism of the rosary at all!

I think my assessment of the promises was a balanced and fair. I frankly and honestly do not believe the Mother of God made them for a number of sound reasons (which I have not actually discussed in depth, and do not at this time intend to).

The rosary itself, and the Hail Mary prayer in particular, is something I have prayed all my life.

Now that I am Orthodox the form of the prayer I use is as follows:
Mother of God, hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed art you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, for you have borne the Savior of our souls.

Originally Posted by dostoyevskyfan

I think you all have some venerable traditions also, but the rosary is a beautiful thing, and I hope one day we will be in communion again....

As I stated, the Hail Mary (and the rosary prayer rule) is not unknown to Orthodox, myself especially.

An honest and open minded critique of the alleged promises does not constitute an attack on the rosary, nor a dismissal of it's usefulness as a form of prayer.

You mentioned "I do find recitation of the rosary to reduce anxiety. It is also relaxing ... ", which is why I mentioned the Jesus Prayer, or also known as the prayer of the heart as this will assuredly ease the mind, strengthen the soul and comfort. This prayer is well known among Eastern Catholics and is growing again in popularity among western Catholics.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me, the sinner.

"The soul's true peace lies in the gentle name of Jesus and in its emptying itself of impassioned thoughts."
Saint Hesychios the Priest, Sinai De tempernteia et virtute

"The more the rain falls on the earth, the softer it makes it; similarly, Christ's holy name gladdens the earth of our heart the more we call upon it."
Saint Hesychios the Priest, Sinai De tempernteia et virtute

"The sun cannot shine without light; nor can the heart be cleansed of the stain of destructive thoughts without invoking in prayer the name of Jesus. This being the case, we should use that name as we do our own breath. For that name is light, while evil thoughts are darkness; it is God and Master, while evil thoughts are slaves and demons"
Saint Hesychios the Priest, Sinai De tempernteia et virtute

'Indeed, our true task is always the same and is always accomplished in the same way: to call upon our Lord Jesus Christ with a burning heart so that His holy name intercedes for us.'
Saint Hesychios the Priest, Sinai De tempernteia et virtute

As one can plainly see I have been a big fan of the meditations of Saint Hesychios (a Catholic as well as Orthodox saint) since before I joined CAF forums six years ago.

Pax et Bonum,

[roveau]

I don't think about the promises in relation to the Rosary but now looking at them I see that I have obtained many of those blessing already.

I started to recite the Rosary before I was reconciled with the Church. The priest that heard my confession, and knew of my interest and Rosary devotion said that my return to the Church was due to the intercession of Our Blessed Lady and the Rosary.

I recite the Rosary every day (5 decades, the mysteries, including the Luminous Mysteries, selected on the basis of the day of the week). I have had my prayers answered so many times, mainly about my spiritual life and work, that I can really see the hand of God working in my mundane little life.

[AJV]

Originally Posted by Hesychios

A few comments
We have to take this on faith (pun intended )

I suppose this is where the idea that the saint Mary of Nazareth mediates graces comes from.

Is not your beef with the idea that she mediates all grace?

Hard to prove, yet nice to believe.

I don't see why. Certainly, recourse to the prayers of the saints, and more so to the Mother of God is always a powerful weapon against hell. And there are many hymns both in the East and West that speak of all the other three effects.

I suppose one can take issue with the WILL part, as if it is a foregone bargain or means of compelling without thought as to the dispositions of those who pray it.

Supposing there to be a Purgatory for arguments sake, I would say only God delivers souls from it.

Certainly so, but the situation is surely comparable to cases where we address or attribute something to a saint on account of their intercession with God or address invocations like "save" or "deliver" to them, is it not?

I think the promises at times are evidence of a certain mercantilism with regard to our prayers - the idea of 'getting' something out of a prayer. Perhaps it's high time we should leave to the Mother of God what she wishes to obtain for her children who call on her devoutly.

[Hesychios]

Originally Posted by AJV

Is not your beef with the idea that she mediates all grace?

I am glad you brought this up.

I need some clarification and perhaps you can help!

In the context of Saint Mary of Nazareth, what does mediate grace mean? How is it done?

A second question which you might be able to help with is 'in what sense is the term all graces used?' Does it mean ...

• a portion of every type of grace, or ...
• the sum total of all graces from God?

In other words 'graces' is a plural for 'grace', but I am not sure that it refers to all of the distributable bits of grace or possibly multiple categories. I never could figure this out and it would be nice to have this cleared up going forward.

A third question I have is 'what is grace?' The reason I ask is that we may not be sharing a common understanding.

Is grace God? ... or is grace a created thing God gives us?

Thanks in advance!

To answer your question though, it's not a beef. The concept of Mediatrix of all Graces had to come from somewhere, and I am guessing it started with this vision or some other speculation. No, I don't believe it because it is not Apostolic but this thread is about the alleged promises, not a proposed new dogma.

[GaryTaylor]

The Rosary was established by St Dominic through a vision from the Blessed Mother and then restored by Blessed Alan de la Roche.

Grace- Is the undeserved Mercy that God gave to us by sending his Son Jesus Christ to die on the Cross. To give "us" a way to be with him. For the balance of eternity.

[Hesychios]

Originally Posted by GaryTaylor

The Rosary was established by St Dominic through a vision from the Blessed Mother and then restored by Blessed Alan de la Roche.

Actually this is a historic (although popularly repeated) myth.

The origins of the rosary clearly predate Saint Dominic, and many Catholic websites provide a fairly balanced recounting of the development of the prayer rule.

Originally Posted by GaryTaylor

Grace- Is the undeserved Mercy that God gave to us by sending his Son Jesus Christ to die on the Cross. To give "us" a way to be with him. For the balance of eternity.

Is it a created thing in your understanding? Something that can be given?

Thanks!

[Stephentlig]

“Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.”
(St. Augustine)

When Our Lady makes a promise, she makes a promise, if we like dont have faith in her promise then like St.Peter we sink like an anchor.

On my Journey home, I was sent a rosary from Medugorje in the post, I remembered how when I was a child I used to pray the Rosary, and I began to pray it again, all I could remember was ''One Our Father and 10 Hail Mary's'' but as for the rest I hadnt a clue but, I began praying it, and when the girlfriend with whom I was living with at the times Mother came around, it was a great excuse for me to go into the bedroom and pray it.

I left Scotland, and after a while of being with the Lord in Ireland and praying the Rosary, I rediscovered my Faith and I'm now fully practicing and Married to a lovely Lady from New Jersey and we live in Ireland, penniless and jobless but nonetheless rich in poverty and abounding in heavenly treasure and love for one another.

The Journey Home always begins with Our Lady who is the teacher in the Faith and who leads us all to Jesus.

Pax Christi
Stephen <3

[Hesychios]

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

When Our Lady makes a promise, she makes a promise,

I wouldn't doubt that.

"let your 'yes' mean yes, and your 'no' mean no"

The question is, who is making these alleged promises?

Originally Posted by Stephentlig

On my Journey home, I was sent a rosary from Medugorje ...

Medjugorje