Desperately in need of advice on Bible translations...

[SFH]

I completely appreciate your dilemma. I have read the KJV many times (always with the apocryphal books), and in many places (especially the Old Testament), it is a much better translation than the Douay Rheims. In fact, I am currently reading the KJV again (I'm in the middle of 1 Kings).

Here are some of the points you should consider. The most common Douay Rheims version is the Challoner version from the 1800s. If that is the version of the Douay Rheims you are reading, you will find it very similar to the KJV. Bishop Challoner removed a great deal of the latinisms in the original Douay Rheims version and substituted the language from the KJV. I believe Cardinal Newman once commented that the Douay Rheims Challoner version was so modified to make it sound like the KJV that hardly any of the original Douay Rheims remains.

As you read the Old Testament in the Douay Rheims version, you will notice major differences in the Psalms. The Douay Rheims translation of the Psalms is based on St. Jerome's translation of the Greek Septuagint rather than his translation of the Hebrew, so the 23rd psalm, for example, is quite different. You will also notice major differences in some of the other books where St. Jerome's source material upon which the Douay Rheims translation was based was different from the source material of the translators of the KJV.

Even among the so called Challoner versions you will notice differences. Several companies publish a reprint of the Haydock Bible, which is a Challoner version that includes the words "and suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host." Other publishers use a different Challoner version that includes the words "and suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly army." I prefer the former, which is closer to the KJV.

The KJV was originally published with the apocryphal books -- 1 and 2 Machabees, Tobias, Judith, Baruch, Ecclesiasticus, Wisdom of Solomon, and portions of Daniel and Esther. I have a large pulpit KJV that still has those books between the Old and New Testaments. Most KJV bibles no longer include those books. As a result, the KJV is substantially deficient from a Catholic perspective. (The KJV apocrypha also includes 3 and 4 Esdras and the Prayer of Manasses, which are not accepted by Catholics.)

With respect to the New Testament, I think the Douay Rheims is the superior translation. If you can get your hands on a Confraternity version of the Douay Rheims bible, the New Testament really shines. In the Latin Church, since the 400s, we have maintained the tradition of keeping certain Aramaic and Hebrew phrases in the original language rather than translating them into Latin or English. In the Douay Rheims, you will see Christ saying, "Amen, amen, I say to you" rather than the KJV's "Verily, verily, I say to you." You will see the use of words like "rabbi" and "anathema" and "maranatha." In the KJV, those words are translated as "master" and "cursed" and "come Lord Jesus."

My advice to you would be to try the Douay Rheims translation. If you find that you're still attracted to the KJV, then by all means read that version, BUT make sure you get the apocryphal books from the KJV translation as well so you have a complete Catholic canon to study.

God speed,

SFH

[Crumpy]

Originally Posted by CatherineRose93

I'm currently in a great dilemma. I don't know which Bible to use, and this has me agonizing. Because without knowing which Bible to use, it feels like I have nowhere to go for answers to this question, but here.

I want to use the KJV for my devotional reading, because...
-I feel comfortable reading it. I'm strange. I find it easier to read than even the NIV (which I dislike it seems that this translation is too...plain for me. I dunno. I feel like it doesn't fill my soul like it should.)
-My KJV versions are easier on the eyes. I have the NAB and RSV, but the pages are extremely thin, and the NAB's pages are almost see-through, so it's hard to read or hilight verses.
-It sounds poetic. I love the words that they use in certain verses. Even though this is supposedly very old English, it's more...refreshing than the other versions I have.
-It's the version my family uses, and so it's more familiar. This could be because, though I am 110% Catholic, most of my family is Mormon. Still, I've done my fair share of studying apologetics, and know which verses are misinterpreted, even in Protestant versions.
-Moving on to the slightly more vain reasons, which are not as important but certainly still there, they're prettier. They look more carefully bound and...well, better quality.

But still, everyone here seems to say it's an awful version for a Catholic because it's a Protestant translation. And I'm torn, because I don't...well...like the other translations I have. : They seem less personal.

I was thinking maybe I could read KJV, but keep my NAV next to it, in case the occasion ever came that I needed to compare translations.

But I'm posting here anyway in case you can offer me other suggestions, or a Catholic version of the Bible that is similar to the KJV language-wise. I hear the Douay Rheims is similar, but I can't find that version anywhere in stores, and it's also kind of expensive to order.

Anyway, I'm just extremely confused, and it keeps me from enjoying reading the Scriptures. So I'd appreciate an answer to put an end to my doubts...or at least help direct me somewhere. This would seem like the silliest thing to have conflict about, but it's actually hurting me quite a bit.

Thanks for your time. God Bless!
~CR

I think that the NIV study bible is a very good translation and an excellent study bible. That should be right next to your KJV and now there's an excellent Catholic Study Bible in production. So far, Ignatius Press is now publishing a New Testament study bible (on the way to have a complete bible study, some time in the future).

I like the illustrations, maps, and comments in the NIV Study bible (a bit expensive when I bought it some years ago - a large print edition, to boot). The Ignatius Bible has a strong Catholic point of view and it seems to be a respectable study bible, in general.

[rockerchar]

As someone versed in both biblical scholarship and Catholic spirituality, I appreciate your situation. On the one hand I don't recommend a Protestant translation NOR the DR for the purposes of your meditation. They simply don't convey well the message contained in the original languages. Did you know that Moses has horns in the Vulgate?

I have always relied on the Oxford Press NAB Study Bible

Product Information
Format: Genuine Leather
Number of Pages: 2432
Vendor: Oxford University Press
Publication Date: 2006
Dimensions: 9.5 X 6.75 X 2.25 (inches)
ISBN: 0195282868
ISBN-13: 9780195282863
Availability: In Stock

But if you want something more readable/poetic I would suggest the NJB (New Jerusalem Bible). It doesn't have the 2 columns which always distract me. It's also a nice translation that flows beatifully. If you want something traditional the NRSV or RSV Catholic editions are what you need. The English version of the Catechism uses the NRSV, rather than the NAB.

God Bless

[mexanava87]

Here's my translation rating scale. In it you will be able to see which translation is literal all the way down to which one is paraphrased. I have them listed into 6 categories. The second list looks much like the first except the second list tells you which denomination uses them.




Michael Carranza's Bible Translation Rating Scale


1 = Literal
2 = Essential Literal
3 = Dynamic
4 = Thought-for-Thought
5 = Paraphrased
6 = Cult Translated



1 Interlineal Bible (ILB)
1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
1 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
1 The Bible Reader (TBR)
1 American Standard Version (ASV)
1 King James Version / Authorized Version (KJV / AV)
1 Holy Names Bible (HNB)
1 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Geneva Bible (GB)
1 Matthew’s Bible (MB)
1 English Standard Bible (ESV)
2 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
2 Douay-Rheims: Challoner (DRC)
2 Confraternity Version (CV)
2 The Concordant Version (TCV)
2 The Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
2 New Authorized Version (AV7)
2 Rotherham Emphasized Version (REV)
2 Amplified Bible (AMP)
3 Recovery Version (RV)
3 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
3 International Standard Version (ISV)
3 New International Version (NIV)
3 New American Bible (NAB)
3 Christian Community Bible (CCB)
4 Today's New International Version (TNIV)
4 James Moffat Translation (JMT)
4 An American Translation (AAT)
4 The Bible in the Language of the People (BLP)
4 Revised English Bible (REB)
4 New English Bible (NEB)
4 Modern Language Bible / Revised Berkley Version (MLB / RBV)
4 International Children's Bible (ICB)
4 New Century Version (NCV)
4 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
4 God's Word Translation / God’s Word to the Nations Translation (GWT / GWNT)
4 New International Reader's Version (NIrV)
4 New Living Translation (NLT)
4 The Simplified English Bible (SEB)
4 New Life Version (NLV)
4 Today's English Version / Good News Translation (TEV / GNT)
4 The Inclusive Bible (TIB)
4 Ronald Knox Translation (KNX)
4 Contemporary English Translation (CEV)
4 New Jerusalem Bible (NJB)
4 Jerusalem Bible (JB)
4 Scholars Version (SV)
5 Living Bible (LB)
5 Phillips New Testament (PNT)
5 Reader's Digest Bible (RDB)
5 The Message (MSG)
5 The Word on the Street (WOS)
6 The Bible in Living English (BLE) – [1]
6 New World Translation (NWT) – [3]




Denomination’s affiliated with Translation


A = All Denominations (exception of that of Cult Christians)
C = Catholic
O = Orthodox
P = Protestant / Christian Non-Denomination
JW = Jehovah’s Witness / Cult Christian
LDS = Mormons / Cult Christian



1 Interlineal Bible (ILB) – A
1 New American Standard Bible (NASB) – P
1 Revised Standard Version (RSV) – A
1 The Bible Reader (TBR) – C & P
1 American Standard Version (ASV) – P
1 King James Version / Authorized Version (KJV / AV) – A & LDS
1 New King James Version (NKJV) – A
1 Geneva Bible (GB) – P & C
1 Matthew’s Bible (MB) – P & C
1 English Standard Bible (ESV) – A
2 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) – A
2 Douay-Rheims (DRC) – C & P
2 Confraternity Version (CV) – C
2 The Concordant Version (TCV) – P
2 The Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) – P
2 The New Authorized Version (AV7) – P
2 Rotherham Emphasized Version (REV) – P
2 Amplified Bible (AMP) – P
3 Recovery Version (RV) – P
3 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) – P
3 International Standard Version (ISV) – P
3 New International Version (NIV) – P
3 New American Bible (NAB) – C
3 Christian Community Bible (CCB) – C
4 Today's New International Version (TNIV) – P
4 James Moffat Translation (JMT) – P
4 An American Translation (AAT) – P
4 The Bible in the Language of the People (BLP) – P
4 Revised English Bible (REB) – P & C
4 New English Bible (NEB) – P & C
4 Modern Language Bible / Revised Berkley Version (MLB / RBV) – P
4 International Children's Bible (ICB) – P
4 New Century Version (NCV) – P
4 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) – P
4 God's Word Translation / God’s Word to the Nations Translation (GWT / GWTN) – P
4 New International Reader's Version (NIrV) – P
4 New Living Translation (NLT) – P & C
4 The Simplified English Bible (SEB) – P
4 New Life Version (NLV) – P
4 Today's English Version / Good News Translation (TEV / GNT) – A
4 The Inclusive Bible (TIB) – C & P
4 Ronald Knox Translation (KNX) – C
4 Contemporary English Translation (CEV) – A
4 New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) – C & P
4 Jerusalem Bible (JB) – C & P
4 Scholars Version (SV) – A
5 Living Bible (LB) – P & C
5 Phillips New Testament (PNT) – P
5 Reader's Digest Bible (RDB) – P
5 The Message (MSG) – P
5 The Word on the Street (WOS) – P
6 The Bible in Living English (BLE) – JW
6 New World Translation (NWT) – JW




I Hope this helps.

God Bless,

Michael Carranza

[mexanava87]

Going off of my above list - my personal recommendations are:

*Note – I think it is always best to have at least one per each category.

If choosing to go strictly Catholic:

1) Revised Standard Version (RSV)
2) Either the Douay-Rheims: Challoner (DRC) or the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
3) Either the New American Bible (NAB) or the Christian Community Bible (CCB)
4) Either the Today's English Version / Good News Translation (TEV / GNT) or the New Jerusalem Bible (NJB)
5) 5 Living Bible (LB)

If going interdenominational:

1) Either the New American Standard Bible (NASB) or the English Standard Bible (ESV)
2) New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
3) Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
4) Either the New Century Version (NCV) or the New Living Translation (NLT) or the Revised English Bible (REB)
5) Either The Message (MSG) or the Living Bible (LB)

*Note – I would not recommend owning and cult-Christian Bible unless you’re doing apologetics.

[mexanava87]

Originally Posted by mexanava87

Going off of my above list - my personal recommendations are:

*Note – I think it is always best to have at least one per each category.

If choosing to go strictly Catholic:

1) Revised Standard Version (RSV)
2) Either the Douay-Rheims: Challoner (DRC) or the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
3) Either the New American Bible (NAB) or the Christian Community Bible (CCB)
4) Either the Today's English Version / Good News Translation (TEV / GNT) or the New Jerusalem Bible (NJB)
5) 5 Living Bible (LB)

If going interdenominational:

1) Either the New American Standard Bible (NASB) or the English Standard Bible (ESV)
2) New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
3) Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
4) Either the New Century Version (NCV) or the New Living Translation (NLT) or the Revised English Bible (REB)
5) Either The Message (MSG) or the Living Bible (LB)

*Note – I would not recommend owning and cult-Christian Bible unless you’re doing apologetics.

Sites that you find these translations at an affordable price is at:

http://www.christianbook.com
http://www.amazon.com
http://www.overstock.com
http://www.bibles.com
http://www.acbooks.net/Merchant2/mer...gory_Code=CBIB
http://www.discountbible.com
http://www.catholiccompany.com
http://www.catholicfreeshipping.com
http://www.aquinasandmore.com
http://www.paulistpressbookcenter.com
http://www.catholicbiblestore.com/index.aspx
http://www.ignatius.com




Hope this is helpful.

God Bless,

Michael Carranza

[Jerry Parker]

Catherine Rose,

Although I am Catholic now, I, too, prefer to continue using the Authorised "King James" Bible (A.V.) as my base of Bible study and devotions. There are plenty of good reasons for sticking with the fine old A.V. Like the Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version (translating primarily from the Latin Clementine Vulgate), the A.V. (translating the Masoretic Hebrew Text of the Old Testament, the Greek Septuagint for the "Apocrypha", i.e. Deuterocanonical writings, and the Textus Receptus (T.R.) of the Greek New Testament), the A.V. is a "full equivalency" translation, not a paraphrase, as so many other Bibles, Catholic (e.g., the N.A.B.) and Protestant (including the N.I.V. which you rightly dislike) unwisely are. The T.R. is almost completely the same as the Greek text of the New Testament in the Complutensian Polyglot, therefore the T.R. is not some kind of Protestant variant that one should avoid! So, the A.V. is based on very superior texts for the O.T., "Apocrypha", and N.T. and translates them more faithfully. Do not forget that the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has authorised the use of the Authorised Version! There is no need to feel guilty about reading it!

Anyway, I do use the Douay-Rheims-Challoner Bible and the Confratermity Version (1941 N.T., 1969 O.T.) as my first choices for Bibles translated under Catholic auspices. There are passages, only very occasionally, where the A.V. does not quite reflect Catholic views on their meaning, and the two Catholic Bibles that I mention are the best to consult on these. Other, later Catholic Bibles are just too paraphrastic (except, notably, the R.S.V.-Cathoic Editions, which have their own problems of a different nature) to trust in such matters.

Now, do you feel better, about doing what is wisest? Last of all, I mention the incomparable beauty of the A.V. and Douay-Rheims-Confraternity versions, which give such solace, compared to the more mundane-sounding modern versions. The beauty and style of these two grand old versions also makes them easier to memorise; they stick in the memory as no other English translations can rival in that regard. Hey, gal, stay with what you like, since it's so good in every way!

Pax, Jerry Parker

[BigRedpg51]

1st rule of thumb.......stay away from any Bible translation that has been done by (or is influenced by) ICEL ....The International Commission on English in the Liturgy. These translation are done with the concept of "Dynamic Equivalence", which is a whacked-out way of saying....."we can translated it however we wish, as long as we feel that it's similar to the exact translation."

2nd rule of thumb........for accuracy -- Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition.

3rd rule of thumb......(and my personal favorite).......for beauty -- The Jerusalem Bible (not the 'revised one', but the original one).

[Jerry-Jet]

The best bible is one that has the Confraternity New Testament--Douay Rheims Challoner Old Testament--and an English translation of the Psalms(Bea Psalter) authorized by Pope Pius XII.

Most of these bibles were published in the late 40s and early 50s.

[Jerry Parker]

Jerry Jet,

You wrote: The best bible is one that has the Confraternity New Testament--Douay Rheims Challoner Old Testament--and an English translation of the Psalms(Bea Psalter) authorized by Pope Pius XII.

Most of these bibles were published in the late 40s and early 50s.
---------------------------------------------------------
Wow! Impressive answer, dude! I recommended the Douay-Rheims-Challoner Bible or, for those who simply must have the Bible in "modern English" (for no really good reason) its Rheims-Challoner New Testament (1941) with the Confraternity Old Testament as it stood no later than 1969. The New American Bible had essentially the same O.T. in 1970 as the 1969 text, with a few differences here and there, but was allied with its dreadful 1970 paraphrase of the N.T. which is far inferior to the 1941 text. We are "on the same wave length" about this!

It is hard to find the Confraternity Version with the full 1969 text of the O.T., but editions that include the mixed "Confraternity-Douay" text with the O.T. partly in Confraternity (pre-1970), partly in Douay are easy to find second hand and by such electronic sources as Amazon's various national sites, especially Amazon.com. The entire 1969 Confraternity Bible was available only for a brief time and, from what I have heard, there is an edition of it available in the Philippines.

Pax, Jerry Parker

[a burger]

Originally Posted by CatherineRose93

I'm currently in a great dilemma. I don't know which Bible to use, and this has me agonizing. Because without knowing which Bible to use, it feels like I have nowhere to go for answers to this question, but here.

I want to use the KJV for my devotional reading, because...
-I feel comfortable reading it. I'm strange. I find it easier to read than even the NIV (which I dislike it seems that this translation is too...plain for me. I dunno. I feel like it doesn't fill my soul like it should.)
-My KJV versions are easier on the eyes. I have the NAB and RSV, but the pages are extremely thin, and the NAB's pages are almost see-through, so it's hard to read or hilight verses.
-It sounds poetic. I love the words that they use in certain verses. Even though this is supposedly very old English, it's more...refreshing than the other versions I have.
-It's the version my family uses, and so it's more familiar. This could be because, though I am 110% Catholic, most of my family is Mormon. Still, I've done my fair share of studying apologetics, and know which verses are misinterpreted, even in Protestant versions.
-Moving on to the slightly more vain reasons, which are not as important but certainly still there, they're prettier. They look more carefully bound and...well, better quality.

But still, everyone here seems to say it's an awful version for a Catholic because it's a Protestant translation. And I'm torn, because I don't...well...like the other translations I have. : They seem less personal.

I was thinking maybe I could read KJV, but keep my NAV next to it, in case the occasion ever came that I needed to compare translations.

But I'm posting here anyway in case you can offer me other suggestions, or a Catholic version of the Bible that is similar to the KJV language-wise. I hear the Douay Rheims is similar, but I can't find that version anywhere in stores, and it's also kind of expensive to order.

Anyway, I'm just extremely confused, and it keeps me from enjoying reading the Scriptures. So I'd appreciate an answer to put an end to my doubts...or at least help direct me somewhere. This would seem like the silliest thing to have conflict about, but it's actually hurting me quite a bit.

Thanks for your time. God Bless!
~CR

[a burger]

The top rated Bible for Catholics now is the New Oxford Standard Revised Version. This was recommended by the instuctor at my Catholic Bible course. It was a joint effort done by Catholics and Protestants. You will note that the Apocrypha is now included. It was not previously included in the Protestant Bibles because they felt it wasn't originally written in Hebrew. They found these books were written in Hebrew when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls. If you want to go to a bible church choose the Catholic Church. I was Evangelical for 16 years so I can say that.

[a burger]

Originally Posted by a burger

The top rated Bible for Catholics now is the New Oxford Standard Revised Version. This was recommended by the instuctor at my Catholic Bible course. It was a joint effort done by Catholics and Protestants. You will note that the Apocrypha is now included. It was not previously included in the Protestant Bibles because they felt it wasn't originally written in Hebrew. They found these books were written in Hebrew when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls. If you want to go to a bible church choose the Catholic Church. I was Evangelical for 16 years so I can say that.

[Jerry Parker]

Burger,

You wrote: The top rated Bible for Catholics now is the New Oxford Standard Revised Version. This was recommended by the instuctor at my Catholic Bible course. It was a joint effort done by Catholics and Protestants. You will note that the Apocrypha is now included. It was not previously included in the Protestant Bibles because they felt it wasn't originally written in Hebrew. They found these books were written in Hebrew when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls. If you want to go to a bible church choose the Catholic Church. I was Evangelical for 16 years so I can say that.
----------------------------------------
I think that you gave the title a bit wrong, which could cause some a bit of perplexity. I am almost sure that you are recommending is The E.S.V. Bible with the "Apocrypha" included. It bears the shorter form of the title (on the half-title page) The English Standard Version Bible with Apocrypha as Oxford Univ. Press published it, with ISBN 978-0-19-528910-7. This is a marvellously fine Bible and you are right so to commend it. (I wrote a review of it for Amazon's various national WWW sites, if one cares to look there for what I wrote, trying to be as helpful as possible for a specifically Catholic purchaser.)

Pax, Jerry Parker

[vladimir998]

Originally Posted by CatherineRose93

One of my favorites, Psalm 139, sounds nothing in the DR like it does in...well, all the other versions I have. And all my favorite verses had been changed so much there that I could not find them.

You probably already know this - but just in case - the Psalms in old Catholic Bibles are numbered differently than in Protestant Bibles. You may not have actually been reading Psalm 139.