How Happy is Saginaw? - Page 2

FatherTodd · #16 Jun 4, '05, 11:26 pm

This whining about the house is down right silly and it comes out of a position of ignorance. I was ordained by Bishop Carlson and am very familiar with how he uses his house. He has seminarians live with him at least one summer. The Summer I was there we had 9 living in the house with the Bishop and two priests. How many 150,000 dollar homes can accomodate that. No I understand that Saginaw hasn't seen 9 seminarians in 10 years so it must be hard to imagine 9 of 35 living with him in one summer. But what I can tell you is if you get behind Bishop then you will see those results and you will be happy he has the space to make them welcome. Every month he brought in 8 spiritual directors for his priests and they stayed in the Bishop's house as well. It will be put to good use and a 3 bedroom 2 bath house just won't cut it. Maybe Bishop Ken did live out of his car. We have seen the fruit on his tree as far as vocations went and you will know a tree by its fruits.

As for a private Chapel... you have a Bishop now that believes in the real presence of the Eucharist and often times spends great lengths of time in front of the Blessed Sacrament. He did a holy hour daily while he was here from 4-5 in the morning because it was the only time he could get it in. Does he really need to trot down the street to do it because some people feel a chapel is such a luxury? Also what do you do with those 9 seminarians living there? Buy a $40,000 dollar van to drive them to mass? Invest in a depreciating assest because people are worried if the Bishop has a chapel in his house?

Egads...

PiusXIII · #17 Jun 5, '05, 12:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherTodd

This whining about the house is down right silly and it comes out of a position of ignorance.

All due respect but nobody is whining---people in the diocese have a genuine concern about where the money in the diocese is going. That applies to many issues besides this house---however, the house is a huge sticking point for many people.

Speaking from my own experience I have seen some priests (not all, but there are some) who seem to have an unrealistic concept of the value of money. People in the parish have to work hard to make ends meet and to be able to make house payments. From the point of view of someone who is working very hard at a job, trying to live within their means, can you see how it looks to have the new bishop come and have a $350,000 house handed to him by the diocese? Can you see what might cause a hard-working poor or middle class person--who would never be able to afford such a home ---to wonder about the wisdom of having such a large expensive home for the bishop?

To characterize the concerns about the house as whining is as simplistic and offensive. In the future, any upkeep, any maintenance, any renovations on it will certainly be paid by money from the diocese....donated by people in the pews.

As far as 9 seminarians living in the house, I think that's great. I'm glad that there are more vocations and I'm glad that his seminarians hold the bishop in such high regard. But I also must point out, I know many families of 9 or more who live in homes considerably less grand and considerably smaller than the one the bishop is now living in.

Hestia · #18 Jun 6, '05, 7:41 pm

Maybe Bishop Ken did live out of his car. We have seen the fruit on his tree as far as vocations went and you will know a tree by its fruits.

As for a private Chapel... you have a Bishop now that believes in the real presence of the Eucharist and often times spends great lengths of time in front of the Blessed Sacrament.

Fr. Todd, I am so disgusted with your remarks and insinuations about Bishop Untener. Maybe Saginaw didn't have "35" seminarians, but I would stack up the quality of our seminarians and priests against quantity any day. To imply that he did not believe in the real presence of the Eucharist is sinful. You didn't know Bishop Ken personally - all you know is what narrow-minded people have written in these chat rooms about him. By the way, I believe at the Last Supper Jesus said, "Take and eat, take and drink", not take and kneel in front of me. Although there is a time and place for private Adoration, Eucharist is to be strength for our journey, to be taken in to nourish us for the work of the kingdom. You don't help Bishop Carlson in Saginaw when you speak as a priest of the Diocese of Sioux Falls in this manner.

FatherTodd · #19 Jun 14, '05, 10:11 am

My remarks on the Eucharist were not meant to imply anything about Bishop Utner but rather to speak about Bishop Carlson himself. I am sorry if they were confusing to you.

A Chapel is not a luxury for a Bishop. I would hope all Bishop's would have a chapel.

Until you actually see how the Bishop uses the house people shouldn't complain. That would be just as presumptuous.

Hestia · #20 Jun 14, '05, 3:00 pm

When you use the words "you have a Bishop now", I don't think it could be taken any other way.

My concerns had nothing to do with Bishop Carlson and his home - it is the responsibility of the Diocese to provide that for him or any Bishop who would have followed Bishop Ken.

HagiaSophia · #21 Jun 14, '05, 6:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hestia

By the way, I believe at the Last Supper Jesus said, "Take and eat, take and drink", not take and kneel in front of me. Although there is a time and place for private Adoration, Eucharist is to be strength for our journey, to be taken in to nourish us for the work of the kingdom. You don't help Bishop Carlson in Saginaw when you speak as a priest of the Diocese of Sioux Falls in this manner.

And this kind of post certainly doesn't reflect too well on "Bishop Ken"s(doncha love it) catechesis on Adoration either - for heaven's sake - your trying to twist and put a meaning on the OP's comments doesn't serve you too well either.

MrS · #22 Jun 14, '05, 6:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HagiaSophia

And this kind of post certainly doesn't reflect too well on "Bishop Ken"s(doncha love it) catechesis on Adoration either - for heaven's sake - your trying to twist and put a meaning on the OP's comments doesn't serve you too well either.

darn, you beat me to it.. My thughts exactly. And not just Bishop Ken.... you cannot love God if you cannot adore Him. How many priests don't spend time in adoration. Bishop Carlson wishes all his priests would add one hour a day in Adoration..... then all good things will follow.

I am puzzled how a good number of Catholics can comment and appreciate when a priest elevates the host slowly and at length, rather than hardly at all - and then not yearn for Adoration. Adoration is a continuation of the Mass consecration...... the Host is elevated for you at length. It is awesome to those who believe in the Real Presence.

HagiaSophia · #23 Jun 14, '05, 6:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrS

the Host is elevated for you at length. It is awesome to those who believe in the Real Presence.

I read once upon a time that if you view the films of JPII elevating at the huge outdoor Masses he purposefully raised it very high as if to lift it above everything else -- this was the focus, this was the purpose for which all had gathered.

midlandchemic · #24 Jun 17, '05, 7:26 am

Fr. Todd, I think your first faux pas in defense of the good bishop is not knowing the housing market in the Saginaw valley. You don't see $150,000 as purchasing a large enough house. In fact, $150,000 would buy a very nice 5 bedroom, 2 bathroom house in most towns in this diocese. Moreover, with all of the parishes that have closed and their facilities changed to meet other Church needs, there were more than enough empty rectories available where he could have laid his head. The economy in this diocese is extremely bad and it was a huge misstep for him to come in and purchase a home that is more than double the normal market. Huge mistake.

I feel for the bishop. As a Marketing professional, I would love to help him...even volunteered my time. But the diocesan offices are as hush hush right now as I've ever seen them. They're making tremendous mistakes and no one is there to act as the voice of reason. If you are indeed close to the bishop, then please pass along that right now he's getting very bad counsel. Hiring an ad agency was a bad step. Buying a truly extravegant house...and then spending a load of money to redecorate...was a PR nightmare. Seeming to be inaccessible, particularly in the wake of his predecessor (who wasn't universally loved BTW...but he was universally respected for his approach) is going to be unforgiveable.

I moved back here from Chicago a couple of years ago. If there's a parallel, it would be the horrible transition from Cardinal Bernadin to Cardinal George. Someone like Bernadin--and Untener--is a hard act to follow. But if you're going to try, at least figure out the main two or three items that people really liked about the man and use that in your transition. Cardinal George came in like an automaton...and sadly that's how Bishop Carlson is being perceived.

Whether these perceptions are accurate or not isn't the issue. Perceptions are reality for the people in this diocese. They're not worried about the number of vocations as much as they're worried about their jobs, being able to pay for their kids' educations, and the sex abuse scandals in the rest of the Church. Sadly, well-meaning or not, Bishop Carlson is playing into their worst fears and not addressing the real issues.

grotto · #25 Jun 17, '05, 8:40 pm

Saginaw ain't happy yet - but we have high hopes! We endured the loss of our Faith in our parishes, the deliberate suppression of priest vocations, forced to build new - unprayerful churches and if not build new; strip and "renovate" the ones we were using and loved - for 20 plus years. A thousand thankyou's to Bishop Carlson for coming to a place that desperately needs a good Shepherd. I think he has been awfully busy trying to find all the sheep since most of the flock were forced into exile. May he enjoy his new residence - sorry we lost the former home meant for the Bishop. There are many poor pockets in the Saginaw Diocese but there are many fat ones as well as the in-betweens. The people will be willing to support efforts that allow us to be faithful, practicing Catholics; to have Adoration of the Holy Eucharist and all the richness in devotions to Our Blessed Mother and the Saints. I think Bishop Carlson will put the Mass and prayer back in our churches. Gonna be happy soon!

MBS1 · #26 Jun 17, '05, 9:17 pm

Still having the RCIA director do the homily.

Still using every ingredient under the sun for the Eucharistic bread - and no one can say for sure if it is consecratable. If not, why use it? If it is, why care if honey, baking powder or other things are used anyway.

Saw Father and one other consume all the hosts after a weekday mass because "they wouldn't keep" otherwise. No wonder there is no Eucharistic adoration - no consecrated bread left. At least unleavened bread and water keeps long enough.

Still seeing people in church wipe Jesus (the crumbs) off their hands onto the carpet after taking the body in their hands.

Waiting, waiting, waiting.....

MBS1

frommi · #27 Jun 18, '05, 8:55 am

I just find it interesting that people are still finding it necessary to fall into the "untener" camp or the "carlson" camp.

Why is it that one can't just know that every bishop is different, with different gifts and different priorities. One may or may not disagree with those priorities, but it's not fair to either man to hold them to the standard of the other.

I still think people are wholly unfair about Bishop Ken Untener in these forums, attrbuting things to him that he never spoke about or believed....read some of his homilies...then tell me he didn't believe in the real presence or encourage adoration and prayer.

At the same time, I think this hulabaloo over a bishop's residence is a little nutty. The money existed to make that purchase as a result of the proceeds from the sale of the original residence, as well as the sale of Bishop Reh's condo in Florida. The house is bought, and holding that over the man's head is no different to me than spending energy upset that Bishop Untener was ok being called Bishop Ken.

It also doesn't help when people such as Fr. Todd find it necessary to defend Bishop Carlson by impugning Bishop Untener then hiding behind their own words.

It will all work out for Saginaw....at some point people are going to remember that we are part of something universal that goes way beyond the ingredients in bread. If not, then we as a church are in more trouble than I would have ever imagined.

Hestia · #28 Jun 18, '05, 11:20 am

Frommi, well said!

grotto · #29 Jun 19, '05, 10:46 am

Frommi and Hestia: Could not disagree with you more. That will have to suffice for today.

frommi · #30 Jun 19, '05, 1:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grotto

Frommi and Hestia: Could not disagree with you more. That will have to suffice for today.

You can disagree...but it would certainly be helpful if you offered a shred of evidence about the "deliberate suppression of priestly vocations" or the other grievances you have against a strong local church.