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  #1  
Old Jun 18, '10, 12:36 pm
nuntym's Avatar
nuntym nuntym is offline
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Exclamation "Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on You" is actually WRONG?! --- A Practical Exercise

+AJPM+
The quote in the title above is attributed to St. Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the Jesuit Order. It even says so in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 2834). And yet I have found yesterday that there are some who say that what St. Ignatius actually said is almost exactly the opposite.

The exact quote according to what I read is this:
Let this be the first rule of your undertakings: confide in God as if the success of those undertakings depended completely upon you and not at all upon God; nonetheless give your whole self to the undertakings as if you yourself would be doing nothing in them but God alone would be doing everything.
If one reads the above closely, what it says is practically "Pray as if everything depended on you and work as if everything depended on God." The best explanation for it that I found is this:

Quote:
[St. Peter Canisius]'s strength came not from “working as if everything depended on himself and praying as if everything depended on God” (an unhappy wedding of Pelagianism and Quietism, popularized in this pithy formulation by Benjamin Franklin). Rather, his rule of action was nearly the reverse. He both prayed to God and begged the prayers of others as if everything depended on himself (that is, ever mindful of his own natural mediocrity), and he worked as if everything depended on God (that is, assured of God’s power to grant success). St. Peter so believed in God’s will to make good on His promises that he looked neither to the right nor to the left, neither to himself nor to his merely human prospects, for assurance. He was able to work tireless precisely because he looked only to God.

Source
Now, the sources I read (I cannot find the first online article that alerted me to this, but the rest can be found through Google) only mentions that the Jesuit scholar John W. Padberg attributed this saying to the founder of the Jesuits, but did not cite any work of St Ignatius or of Padberg.

However, as another aphorism says, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." I have always thought the saying at the title is the true saying of St Ignatius, and I have tried to practice it always. Yet when I tried the opposite, to "pray as if everything depended on you and work as if everything depended on God," I became almost immediately convinced that THIS is the right way to view my relationship with God, because it actually made sense in my heart and soul. It is hard to explain, but I now know why St Paul was able to say
Have no anxiety about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, will keep your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 4:6-7
If you have always practiced and believed in the saying "Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on You," I challenge you to do the opposite, and see if it will help you. Let us know what happened.

God bless you all.
__________________
God gives us the ingredients for our daily bread,

but He expects us to do the baking.

Fr. Anthony M. Coniaris
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  #2  
Old Jun 19, '10, 8:53 pm
SarahFae SarahFae is offline
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Default Re: "Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on You" is actually WRONG?! --- A Practical Exercise

I had never heard the first (mis)quote before, but I agree with you the corrected version makes much more sense. If you pray as if everything depended on your work, then you are praying for the graces you need to accomplish it, realizing your own inadequacies and remaining humble before God. Then as you work for God, you acknowledge that your work is not your own, but His alone, also preserving you from falling into pride.
Thank you very much for sharing!
God bless,
Sarah
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  #3  
Old Jun 20, '10, 12:12 am
WatchingMedia WatchingMedia is offline
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Default Re: "Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on You" is actually WRONG?! --- A Practical Exercise

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuntym View Post
+AJPM+
The quote in the title above is attributed to St. Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the Jesuit Order. It even says so in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 2834). And yet I have found yesterday that there are some who say that what St. Ignatius actually said is almost exactly the opposite.

The exact quote according to what I read is this:
Let this be the first rule of your undertakings: confide in God as if the success of those undertakings depended completely upon you and not at all upon God; nonetheless give your whole self to the undertakings as if you yourself would be doing nothing in them but God alone would be doing everything.
If one reads the above closely, what it says is practically "Pray as if everything depended on you and work as if everything depended on God." The best explanation for it that I found is this:



Now, the sources I read (I cannot find the first online article that alerted me to this, but the rest can be found through Google) only mentions that the Jesuit scholar John W. Padberg attributed this saying to the founder of the Jesuits, but did not cite any work of St Ignatius or of Padberg.

However, as another aphorism says, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." I have always thought the saying at the title is the true saying of St Ignatius, and I have tried to practice it always. Yet when I tried the opposite, to "pray as if everything depended on you and work as if everything depended on God," I became almost immediately convinced that THIS is the right way to view my relationship with God, because it actually made sense in my heart and soul. It is hard to explain, but I now know why St Paul was able to say
Have no anxiety about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, will keep your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 4:6-7
If you have always practiced and believed in the saying "Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on You," I challenge you to do the opposite, and see if it will help you. Let us know what happened.

God bless you all.
You'll have to provide a link to your sources.
Sorry but there are many errors/misquotes on public web sites and/or statements taken out of context - which can change the meaning.
The CCC quote only is correct regarding 2834. "Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on you."
All other quotes you state are from where?

Your suppostions without providing facts make it impossible to respond to in any intelligent/accurate way.
Bloggers on google can be OK or in serious error. Don't believe everything you read in the media. But search out the facts yourself.
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  #4  
Old Jun 20, '10, 12:24 am
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nuntym nuntym is offline
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Default Re: "Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on You" is actually WRONG?! --- A Practical Exercise

+AJPM+
Quote:
Originally Posted by WatchingMedia View Post
You'll have to provide a link to your sources.
Sorry but there are many errors/misquotes on public web sites and/or statements taken out of context - which can change the meaning.
The CCC quote only is correct regarding 2834. "Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on you."
All other quotes you state are from where?

Your suppostions without providing facts make it impossible to respond to in any intelligent/accurate way.
Bloggers on google can be OK or in serious error. Don't believe everything you read in the media. But search out the facts yourself.
I did try to point out that what I read are from online sources only, all of which can be found by clicking my Google link, which will return only eight results. And I did point out that the source of the quote is sketchy:

Quote:
Now, the sources I read (I cannot find the first online article that alerted me to this, but the rest can be found through Google) only mentions that the Jesuit scholar John W. Padberg attributed this saying to the founder of the Jesuits, but did not cite any work of St Ignatius or of Padberg.
It may be better if I ask those who posted that quote where it came from.

However, as I said, what really convinced me was the practice of it.
__________________
God gives us the ingredients for our daily bread,

but He expects us to do the baking.

Fr. Anthony M. Coniaris
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  #5  
Old Jun 20, '10, 3:20 am
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roveau roveau is offline
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Default Re: "Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on You" is actually WRONG?! --- A Practical Exercise

In part, slightly akin to the old saying, 'God helps those who help themselves'.
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May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you,
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Our Lady of the Rosary Pray for usSt Francis of Assisi Pray for us
---God may be calling you to the Third Order of St Francis - Ordo Franciscanus Saecularis---
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  #6  
Old Jun 20, '10, 3:36 am
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crystal waters crystal waters is offline
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Default Re: "Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on You" is actually WRONG?! --- A Practical Exercise

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuntym View Post
+AJPM+
The quote in the title above is attributed to St. Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the Jesuit Order. It even says so in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 2834). And yet I have found yesterday that there are some who say that what St. Ignatius actually said is almost exactly the opposite.

The exact quote according to what I read is this:
Let this be the first rule of your undertakings: confide in God as if the success of those undertakings depended completely upon you and not at all upon God; nonetheless give your whole self to the undertakings as if you yourself would be doing nothing in them but God alone would be doing everything.
If one reads the above closely, what it says is practically "Pray as if everything depended on you and work as if everything depended on God." The best explanation for it that I found is this:



Now, the sources I read (I cannot find the first online article that alerted me to this, but the rest can be found through Google) only mentions that the Jesuit scholar John W. Padberg attributed this saying to the founder of the Jesuits, but did not cite any work of St Ignatius or of Padberg.

However, as another aphorism says, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." I have always thought the saying at the title is the true saying of St Ignatius, and I have tried to practice it always. Yet when I tried the opposite, to "pray as if everything depended on you and work as if everything depended on God," I became almost immediately convinced that THIS is the right way to view my relationship with God, because it actually made sense in my heart and soul. It is hard to explain, but I now know why St Paul was able to say
Have no anxiety about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, will keep your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 4:6-7
If you have always practiced and believed in the saying "Pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended on You," I challenge you to do the opposite, and see if it will help you. Let us know what happened.

God bless you all.
the 2nd way does make more sense....maybe it was translated from a foreign language ad got written down wrongly?
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