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  #31  
Old Jun 25, '10, 8:27 pm
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Elizium23 Elizium23 is offline
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

What's peculiar is that my diocese often puts out a DVD that is required to be shown during the Mass on Sunday. They contain messages from the bishop on political activities or fund-raising, such as the Charity and Development Appeal that is currently running.

So if there is indeed a ban on projectors, our bishop has issued a de facto dispensation from the rule so that we can see his messages.
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  #32  
Old Jun 25, '10, 9:03 pm
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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Originally Posted by Elizium23 View Post
What's peculiar is that my diocese often puts out a DVD that is required to be shown during the Mass on Sunday. They contain messages from the bishop on political activities or fund-raising, such as the Charity and Development Appeal that is currently running.

So if there is indeed a ban on projectors, our bishop has issued a de facto dispensation from the rule so that we can see his messages.
That's what happens in our diocese.

It's not like this is a dogma of the faith that can never be changed. The liturgy is something that can be changed by the Magisterium; after all, they're giving us the new translation of the OF Mass.

This is just a practice that made sense in the past, but doesn't really make sense now.

As for why projectors are used in the Philippines--could it have something to do with humidity destroying paper hymnals?

In my childhood church (evangelical Protestant), they stopped using hymnals years ago because people were vandalizing them by drawing Satanic and pornographic pictures in them. They use overheads for almost all the songs, including the traditional hymns. It works just fine. It's just a way to get information.

If I had the money, I would buy one of those computer notebooks for the piano and scan all my music into it, and then I wouldn't have hymnals or sheet music to worry about during Mass (no more page turns!). It never occurred to me that it could be forbidden in the Mass because it's a "projector", but to me, it seems silly to forbid something so practical. I would be able to put any Mass parts into it and always have them available, and any hymn, so no more frantic searches through the piano bench for the hymns.

At one time, yes, I would have agreed that screens and projectors give the wrong image in church. But now, I don't think this applies anymore. I hope that eventually, it gets brought to the table (or whatever is used in Rome) and changed.
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  #33  
Old Jun 25, '10, 9:47 pm
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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Originally Posted by Cat View Post
The liturgy is something that can be changed by the Magisterium; after all, they're giving us the new translation of the OF Mass.
The Latin text, the basis of the OF Mass, isn't being changed. Just the translations into the everchanging English language. However, that doesn't necessarily mean modernized.
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  #34  
Old Jun 26, '10, 12:15 am
Moscati Moscati is offline
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

Our parish uses a projector for songs during Wednesday night prayer/food/singing/whatever else meetings, which are sometimes in the chapel. There's no place to put it that doesn't completely cover something (altar, Mary, piano), so they usually put it halfway up the aisle and everyone sits farther back, which would obviously never work for Mass. The only time I've ever seen it used during a Mass was for one of those recorded bishop's messages, and it was pretty annoying, considering all the musicians and choir members were squished behind it off to one side.

If there was a way to do it unobtrusively, I think it would be okay (assuming the Pope allowed it, of course--that document would need to be clarified), but that's pretty hard to do.
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  #35  
Old Jun 26, '10, 11:31 am
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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Originally Posted by Cat View Post
The very idea of a projector and screen as entertainment is so strange to me. It sounds about as ancient as saying that people should only take a bath on Saturday night--I don't think so!
Don't you go to the movies??

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I would like to see the music to the various chant responses projected on a screen so that when the priest chants, those of us who didn't grow up Catholic would actually know what to sing.
This is a horrific idea.

Buy a printer and print them off yourself to take to Mass. Sancta Missa - Kyriale

~Liza
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  #36  
Old Jun 26, '10, 1:01 pm
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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Originally Posted by Cat View Post

As for why projectors are used in the Philippines--could it have something to do with humidity destroying paper hymnals?
no. sadly there is not a level of respect for what is perceived as public property by a lot of people. book hymnals and missals wouldn't last a month. people would either take them home for themselves and justify the act that they're going to be bringing them to Church anyway every week, or that those using the books wouldn't give it due care that it'll be worn out in a couple of months.

another reason is that 80% of the country are Catholics, and churches are usually jam-packed with people for most Sunday masses. its common for a few dozen to a couple of hundred people to be standing on the sides and at the back, and sometimes outside of the church during Mass because its full. its probably cheaper to run a projector than buy a lot of Missals

also, just to add to my earlier point about losing or damaged Missals and Hymnals. i'm not saying most of the people there are thieves or careless, but given that 80% of the population are Catholics, even if 1% of that number are the troublemakers, they would quickly go through the Missals and Hymnals

they did try to print disposable Missals. they're printed week to week in a sheet of paper. but again, most parishes have 3 masses in the morning and 3 masses in the afternoon/evening. if you're going to Mass late in the day, you'll probably not find any Missals or they won't be enough as some were probably taken home, destroyed, or blown away by the wind (most parishes there have all doors open because of the heat. the only ones that don't keep all doors open are the airconditioned ones)
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  #37  
Old Jun 27, '10, 9:15 pm
ELDEN'S WIFE ELDEN'S WIFE is offline
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

My church recently installed a projector screen over the altar that can be lowered and raised.

It was first used during the Sunday evening Youth Mass in which the words were projected for all to read. Most of the songs were ones they already had in a book they purchased not too many years ago just for the youth. They are still in good condition, but I guess we are just too lazy to get them out and then someone has to pick them all up at the end of mass!

At the first mass that they used it I noticed they were giving web addresses for some of the songs. When I got home I looked them up. To my horror, all were from Protestant websites, two of which were very anti-catholic! (Our music director is protestant, which is another beef I have!)

Now they have taken the screens to a new level. I arrived about 10 minutes early for mass about a month ago to find advertisements for our upcoming International Festival being projected! Needless to say I was very upset, thoughts of money changers in the church came to mind and I wept through the whole mass for the pain it must be causing our dear Lord.

Last week we had the children go up on the altar and sing songs from Vacation Bible School (more protestant sources) and we had to show the video above the altar singing and dancing along with the kids. This occurred prior to mass starting and again before the final blessing.

My question is, how long before we are showing swirly patterns, religious symbols or other so called "appropriate" pictures above the altar during mass? (This is what my husbands Protestant church has showing during their services.) The mentality has become that of entertaining instead of participation at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

I for one would love to find a traditional mass that focuses on the real reason we are there, and not the priests desires, the youth leaders desires, the parish counsels desires, etc.
When will we remember whos mass it is anyway?
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  #38  
Old Jun 27, '10, 11:37 pm
Elizabeth502 Elizabeth502 is offline
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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Originally Posted by Canto View Post
De Musica Sacra de Musica Liturgia
Sacred Congregation for Rites - September 3, 1958

73. The use of any kind of projector, and particularly movie projectors, with or without sound track, is strictly forbidden in church for any reason, even if it be for a pious, religious, or charitable cause.
Really? This surprises me. One of my local churches has a gigantic screen high up which displays hymn text. However, it is definitely not in the sanctuary! It is way over to the side. The church is rather unusual and asymmetrical, with vast ceilings that require extension ladders to reach. The whole church is cavernous and rather large, so I never find the screen intrusive whatsoever to what is going on in the sanctuary and at the altar. If I remember correctly, the reason for this addition was precisely what japhy said about the distraction of looking down. I find it actually easier, not more difficult, to focus on the Mass with such a screen in such a non-traditional architectural setting, but in most churches which are differently constructed, that would not be true, I concede.

OTOH, this is the same church that allows lay preaching of the homily in replacement of the priest, 4-5 times/year.
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  #39  
Old Jun 27, '10, 11:46 pm
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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Originally Posted by Canto View Post
De Musica Sacra de Musica Liturgia
Sacred Congregation for Rites - September 3, 1958

73. The use of any kind of projector, and particularly movie projectors, with or without sound track, is strictly forbidden in church for any reason, even if it be for a pious, religious, or charitable cause.
There is no way that this 1958 document in any way precludes the use of some AV equipment here in 2010 if it's used in a responsible manner. The gear available in 1958 -- literally movie footage, "flim strips", slides and overhead projectors could never do the Mass any justice.

On the other hand I was at one church that appeared to have two large and beautiful icons -- one of Mary and one of Joseph on each side of the main sanctuary crucifix. It turns out they were two large screen plasma TVs sunken into the walls. No way could you tell until the image changed. Their application and use was masterful. No way did the creators of De Musica Sacra de Musica Liturgia anticipate such technology and perhaps such a masterful application.

Those that uniformly reject the application of such gifts within the Mass are terribly mistaken.
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  #40  
Old Jun 27, '10, 11:50 pm
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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Originally Posted by boatbearer View Post
There is no way that this 1958 document in any way precludes the use of some AV equipment here in 2010 if it's used in a responsible manner. The gear available in 1958 -- literally movie footage, "flim strips", slides and overhead projectors could never do the Mass any justice.

On the other hand I was at one church that appeared to have two large and beautiful icons -- one of Mary and one of Joseph on each side of the main sanctuary crucifix. It turns out they were two large screen plasma TVs sunken into the walls. No way could you tell until the image changed. Their application and use was masterful. No way did the creators of De Musica Sacra de Musica Liturgia anticipate such technology and perhaps such a masterful application.

Those that uniformly reject the application of such gifts within the Mass are terribly mistaken.
wow, they must have really generous parishoners
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  #41  
Old Jun 28, '10, 1:50 am
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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Originally Posted by boatbearer View Post

On the other hand I was at one church that appeared to have two large and beautiful icons -- one of Mary and one of Joseph on each side of the main sanctuary crucifix. It turns out they were two large screen plasma TVs sunken into the walls. No way could you tell until the image changed. Their application and use was masterful. No way did the creators of De Musica Sacra de Musica Liturgia anticipate such technology and perhaps such a masterful application.
At the end of the day - it's still two tvs in the sanctuary. Tacky.

No matter how you dress up a pig, it's still a pig.

~Liza
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  #42  
Old Jun 28, '10, 2:34 am
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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wow, they must have really generous parishoners
I suspect so. The panels looked like icons even after very careful inspection. Their use was also masterful which means a great deal too.

They show the daily readings in CRISP looking images that look like a page out of a fancy Lectionary. 2-3 screen-fulls are sown at the beginning reminding people to extinguish cell phones, etc. Very professional.
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  #43  
Old Jun 28, '10, 2:36 am
sulkow82 sulkow82 is offline
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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Originally Posted by Elizabeth502 View Post
Really? This surprises me. One of my local churches has a gigantic screen high up which displays hymn text. However, it is definitely not in the sanctuary! It is way over to the side.
This is the same thing with my parish. There are two (2) screens with projectors hooked up to a computer (outside the sanctuary). The Bishop has also had a DVD played where he discussed the plan for financing the revitalization of the Diocese (this was the only DVD played in the three years we've had the screens).

As a "screen-saver" between masses, they display the list of people for whom intentions are being prayed. After this, there are a few lines of announcements (the line "check the bulletin for more info." is very common). This has reduced the time our priest spends on announcements to near non-existent.

Quote:
OTOH, this is the same church that allows lay preaching of the homily in replacement of the priest, 4-5 times/year.
This, OTOH, is unheard of in our parish. It is either our priest or deacon who gives the homily.
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  #44  
Old Jun 28, '10, 2:39 am
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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At the end of the day - it's still two tvs in the sanctuary. Tacky.

No matter how you dress up a pig, it's still a pig.

~Liza
No, not "tacky."

Amazing anyone could pass judgment on something they have never even seen.

I think that's the problem with many on matters like this. They cling to an outdated document(s) or a bad real life experience(s) and assume that no one else has (or could) raised it several levels above the best they have ever personally experienced.

Many even work themselves up into an agitated lather as they equate the use of such technology as being "Protestant." Utter malarkey.

Rather than express their own experiences for other people to reference they make nasty and erroneous remarks like "No matter how you dress up a pig, it's still a pig."

Sad -- but not unexpected.
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  #45  
Old Jun 28, '10, 3:44 am
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Default Re: projector screen to display text hymns?

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Rather than express their own experiences for other people to reference...
I did that. Read the thread.

I still think it is in very poor taste. I don't care how fancy or artfully disguised it may be - it is still a tv or screen in the Church.

My goodness - what would happen if the power went out, or the technology died or something!!?? How would anyone function?

There are good an bad choices for what belongs in the Mass - I just think this is a bad choice. It takes the attention off what's happening on the altar. Even if someone doesn't need the screen/words/music - it's right IN THEIR FACE when they look up, and it is distracting. ANY distraction during the Mass is unacceptable.

Just because everything else in our lives is flashed before us on shiny bright screens, large and small, does not mean the Mass needs to be as well. Can't we just knock it down a notch for one hour a week? Do we ALWAYS have to have technology staring us in the face? Can't God just be enough?

~Liza
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