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  #1  
Old Jul 26, '10, 2:03 pm
paulp1002 paulp1002 is offline
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Default Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

My wife and I are currently going thru a divorce because of my Catholic beliefs. She had mentioned that she can marry a Mormon man and be sealed to him and our son in the temple.

My questions are:

1. When she marries again, can she and her new husband be sealed as a family, with my son?

2. If yes, will she need my permission to have my son sealed to her and her new husband?

I do not believe in the Mormon Temple Sealings. It's a great concept, and I do not mean to offend anyone but there is no proof that couples remain married after death. It's not preached or taught in the bible. It's some guys theory.

My problem is having my son's name on LDS membership records, stating he is sealed to another man. Even if it is only on paper. My son only has one Dad and that is me.
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  #2  
Old Jul 26, '10, 2:21 pm
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twopekinguys twopekinguys is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulp1002 View Post
My wife and I are currently going thru a divorce because of my Catholic beliefs. She had mentioned that she can marry a Mormon man and be sealed to him and our son in the temple.

My questions are:

1. When she marries again, can she and her new husband be sealed as a family, with my son?

2. If yes, will she need my permission to have my son sealed to her and her new husband?

I do not believe in the Mormon Temple Sealings. It's a great concept, and I do not mean to offend anyone but there is no proof that couples remain married after death. It's not preached or taught in the bible. It's some guys theory.

My problem is having my son's name on LDS membership records, stating he is sealed to another man. Even if it is only on paper. My son only has one Dad and that is me.
I found this in their Church Handbook of Instruction:

Children Whose Parents Are Divorced

"A child whose parents are divorced may be baptized if the parent(s) with legal custody gives permission. If the mother has custody and has remarried ' and if the child is not formally adopted but has assumed the surname of the stepfather, the child may be baptized in the name by which he or she will be known. "

If all of this is an issue for you, work with your attorney to include a provision in your divorce papers, that religious education, sacraments, etc. must contain both biological parent's consent. It has been done sucessfully in other divorces.

If they go behind your back and do it anyway, they open themselves, and the church up to legal ramifications, like court orders preventing it.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/25...r-easter-mass/
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  #3  
Old Jul 26, '10, 3:11 pm
paulp1002 paulp1002 is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by twopekinguys View Post
I found this in their Church Handbook of Instruction:

Children Whose Parents Are Divorced

"A child whose parents are divorced may be baptized if the parent(s) with legal custody gives permission. If the mother has custody and has remarried ' and if the child is not formally adopted but has assumed the surname of the stepfather, the child may be baptized in the name by which he or she will be known. "

If all of this is an issue for you, work with your attorney to include a provision in your divorce papers, that religious education, sacraments, etc. must contain both biological parent's consent. It has been done sucessfully in other divorces.

If they go behind your back and do it anyway, they open themselves, and the church up to legal ramifications, like court orders preventing it.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/25...r-easter-mass/
Thank you for your response, but we will each share custody and baptism isn't my concern. I'm more concerned about my son being "sealed" to another man on LDS church records.
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  #4  
Old Jul 26, '10, 3:21 pm
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twopekinguys twopekinguys is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

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Originally Posted by paulp1002 View Post
Thank you for your response, but we will each share custody and baptism isn't my concern. I'm more concerned about my son being "sealed" to another man on LDS church records.
But like I said in my original post, have the divorce papers include all of these things. I only listed a few for time/space.

Speak with your attorney, and explain that you do not want your soon to be ex wife to do this, and you want it specifically addressed in the divorce papers.

I am sure it will be something that will have to be negotiated, but doing nothing is the same as giving consent in this case.
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Old Jul 26, '10, 3:51 pm
Apollos Apollos is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulp1002 View Post
My wife and I are currently going thru a divorce because of my Catholic beliefs. She had mentioned that she can marry a Mormon man and be sealed to him and our son in the temple.

My questions are:

1. When she marries again, can she and her new husband be sealed as a family, with my son?

2. If yes, will she need my permission to have my son sealed to her and her new husband?

I do not believe in the Mormon Temple Sealings. It's a great concept, and I do not mean to offend anyone but there is no proof that couples remain married after death. It's not preached or taught in the bible. It's some guys theory.

My problem is having my son's name on LDS membership records, stating he is sealed to another man. Even if it is only on paper. My son only has one Dad and that is me.
This is a little like the food-sacrificed-to-idols question that St Paul deals with in 1 Corinthians 8.

Your two questions need to be answered by the Mormons, not by us.

However in my opinion, because there is no such thing in reality as a sealing, the sealings are to be regarded as null and void.
  #6  
Old Jul 26, '10, 6:31 pm
paulp1002 paulp1002 is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by twopekinguys View Post
But like I said in my original post, have the divorce papers include all of these things. I only listed a few for time/space.

Speak with your attorney, and explain that you do not want your soon to be ex wife to do this, and you want it specifically addressed in the divorce papers.

I am sure it will be something that will have to be negotiated, but doing nothing is the same as giving consent in this case.
I plan on working with attorney, I just wanted to see if it was true and if she were to be sealed to another man, if that included my son. I wanted to know facts, before I bring it up to my lawyer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollos View Post
This is a little like the food-sacrificed-to-idols question that St Paul deals with in 1 Corinthians 8.

Your two questions need to be answered by the Mormons, not by us.

However in my opinion, because there is no such thing in reality as a sealing, the sealings are to be regarded as null and void.
I agree with all your points. I understand that this is are questions that a Mormon would need to answer, but I figured that there are enough LDS members on this forum, and ex-mormons that could answer them. I didn't want to go to a Mormon forum, because I don't want to be preached about how "sacred" the temple sealings are,(its happened in the past.) Like you said there is no such thing, but I don't like the fact that if she can do it, that its on church records.
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  #7  
Old Jul 26, '10, 7:40 pm
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Annie B Annie B is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulp1002 View Post
My wife and I are currently going thru a divorce because of my Catholic beliefs. She had mentioned that she can marry a Mormon man and be sealed to him and our son in the temple.

My questions are:

1. When she marries again, can she and her new husband be sealed as a family, with my son?

2. If yes, will she need my permission to have my son sealed to her and her new husband?

I do not believe in the Mormon Temple Sealings. It's a great concept, and I do not mean to offend anyone but there is no proof that couples remain married after death. It's not preached or taught in the bible. It's some guys theory.

My problem is having my son's name on LDS membership records, stating he is sealed to another man. Even if it is only on paper. My son only has one Dad and that is me.
You really should be asking these questions of a knowledgable LDS Bishop to get the LDS answers. You may get answers here, but to make sure you are getting the right ones you should seek the Bishop's advice. Just the same as if you wanted "technical" information on Catholic practices you would be wise to seek out the advice of a Catholic priest. You can look in the phonebook and get a local Bishop's number through the local branch (ward) of the LDs church. Good Luck!
Annie
  #8  
Old Jul 26, '10, 8:21 pm
ParkerD ParkerD is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulp1002 View Post
My wife and I are currently going thru a divorce because of my Catholic beliefs. She had mentioned that she can marry a Mormon man and be sealed to him and our son in the temple.

My questions are:

1. When she marries again, can she and her new husband be sealed as a family, with my son?

2. If yes, will she need my permission to have my son sealed to her and her new husband?

I do not believe in the Mormon Temple Sealings. It's a great concept, and I do not mean to offend anyone but there is no proof that couples remain married after death. It's not preached or taught in the bible. It's some guys theory.

My problem is having my son's name on LDS membership records, stating he is sealed to another man. Even if it is only on paper. My son only has one Dad and that is me.
Hi, PaulP1002,
Sorry to hear about the pending divorce, and I hope perhaps things may be rectified between the two of you.

If not, then please be aware of the following:

1) If she is worthy after a period of time after her divorce, she could remarry and have a temple marriage or a temple sealing, but that would not involve your son at all, only the couple.

If the son became the legal adoptive son of the new husband and that legality was shown by legal documents, and if the son desired to be sealed to the adoptive father and the mother, and had been baptized, then it would be a matter of counseling with the couple's bishop and stake president as to whether the son could be sealed to the couple. If the mother had legal requirements from the divorce, then she should disclose those requirements to her bishop if she were seeking to have her son sealed to the new marriage.

Adult children can be sealed to the mother or the father and the spouse if the adult child is active LDS and their parent has had a temple sealing--but they don't need to have that done unless they want it done.

Adult children and younger children are always encouraged to honor their birth parents with love, respect, and every consideration. This does not change when divorce occurs--they should still do that.

It may be advisable for you to ask your wife to clarify some of these matters with her bishop, and perhaps with her stake president if the bishop is inexperienced in this kind of issue. It would be unfortunate for her to make such a life-changing decision based on an incorrect perception about the temple sealing ordinance for children, if that is really part of the basis of her decision-making.

I hope there may be peace in how you work things out, and that your son's personal desires will be respected by each of you.
  #9  
Old Jul 26, '10, 9:12 pm
paulp1002 paulp1002 is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerD View Post
Hi, PaulP1002,
Sorry to hear about the pending divorce, and I hope perhaps things may be rectified between the two of you.

If not, then please be aware of the following:

1) If she is worthy after a period of time after her divorce, she could remarry and have a temple marriage or a temple sealing, but that would not involve your son at all, only the couple.

If the son became the legal adoptive son of the new husband and that legality was shown by legal documents, and if the son desired to be sealed to the adoptive father and the mother, and had been baptized, then it would be a matter of counseling with the couple's bishop and stake president as to whether the son could be sealed to the couple. If the mother had legal requirements from the divorce, then she should disclose those requirements to her bishop if she were seeking to have her son sealed to the new marriage.

Adult children can be sealed to the mother or the father and the spouse if the adult child is active LDS and their parent has had a temple sealing--but they don't need to have that done unless they want it done.

Adult children and younger children are always encouraged to honor their birth parents with love, respect, and every consideration. This does not change when divorce occurs--they should still do that.

It may be advisable for you to ask your wife to clarify some of these matters with her bishop, and perhaps with her stake president if the bishop is inexperienced in this kind of issue. It would be unfortunate for her to make such a life-changing decision based on an incorrect perception about the temple sealing ordinance for children, if that is really part of the basis of her decision-making.

I hope there may be peace in how you work things out, and that your son's personal desires will be respected by each of you.
Thank you ParkerD. If she were to remarry, he wouldn't be the adoptive father. Right now I'm the primary custodian and if worse came to worse at the final orders we would share custody 50/50.

So would the rules change? She would only be able to be sealed to our son if he choose to be Mormon and was baptized in the LDS church when he turns 8 and only if he wants to be sealed?

Otherwise, if our son chooses to be Catholic and is not baptized in the LDS Church, or he doesn't want to be sealed, then there is no way her and her new husband can be sealed to him?


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  #10  
Old Jul 26, '10, 9:39 pm
ParkerD ParkerD is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulp1002 View Post
Thank you ParkerD. If she were to remarry, he wouldn't be the adoptive father. Right now I'm the primary custodian and if worse came to worse at the final orders we would share custody 50/50.

So would the rules change? She would only be able to be sealed to our son if he choose to be Mormon and was baptized in the LDS church when he turns 8 and only if he wants to be sealed?

Otherwise, if our son chooses to be Catholic and is not baptized in the LDS Church, or he doesn't want to be sealed, then there is no way her and her new husband can be sealed to him?


PaulP1002,

If there is joint custody, then both custodial parents would need to give their written consent and the son give his desire in any matter of baptism or of course of a temple sealing. Any child who is part of an LDS temple sealing (a separate occasion from a sealing of a couple, at least a year later) must have been baptized if eight years old or older in an LDS baptism, and it would only be by their choice but also by written consent of the custodial parents. Even then, the bishop would be sensitive to the feelings of all involved.

The answer to your final question is "Correct--no way that could happen (the child absolutely must be an LDS member for any consideration of entering a temple for any temple ordinance)."
  #11  
Old Jul 27, '10, 12:42 pm
paulp1002 paulp1002 is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerD View Post
PaulP1002,

If there is joint custody, then both custodial parents would need to give their written consent and the son give his desire in any matter of baptism or of course of a temple sealing. Any child who is part of an LDS temple sealing (a separate occasion from a sealing of a couple, at least a year later) must have been baptized if eight years old or older in an LDS baptism, and it would only be by their choice but also by written consent of the custodial parents. Even then, the bishop would be sensitive to the feelings of all involved.

The answer to your final question is "Correct--no way that could happen (the child absolutely must be an LDS member for any consideration of entering a temple for any temple ordinance)."
Thank you ParkerD
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  #12  
Old Jul 27, '10, 7:24 pm
PaulDupre PaulDupre is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerD View Post
PaulP1002,

If there is joint custody, then both custodial parents would need to give their written consent and the son give his desire in any matter of baptism or of course of a temple sealing. Any child who is part of an LDS temple sealing (a separate occasion from a sealing of a couple, at least a year later) must have been baptized if eight years old or older in an LDS baptism, and it would only be by their choice but also by written consent of the custodial parents. Even then, the bishop would be sensitive to the feelings of all involved.

The answer to your final question is "Correct--no way that could happen (the child absolutely must be an LDS member for any consideration of entering a temple for any temple ordinance)."
PaulP1002,

The important thing is to find out who the bishop is and get in touch with him ASAP. Let him know that you will not, under any circumstances, agree to let your son be baptised into the LDS church and will take the matter to civil court if necessary.

Mormons do not like to have their church taken to court.

God bless you,
Paul
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Old Jul 28, '10, 2:00 am
dianaiad dianaiad is offline
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Default Re: Mormon Temple Sealing and Divorce/Remarriage

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Originally Posted by PaulDupre View Post
PaulP1002,

The important thing is to find out who the bishop is and get in touch with him ASAP. Let him know that you will not, under any circumstances, agree to let your son be baptized into the LDS church and will take the matter to civil court if necessary.

Mormons do not like to have their church taken to court.

God bless you,
Paul
I don't think that, for a couple going through all this, that threatening a lawsuit and raising hell would do a whole lot for the process.

The threat is not required, Paul. They have to ask the non-member parent for permission before the child can be baptized; we have to have that signature, or the baptism simply will not happen. If you then say 'no,' then he has to wait until he is of age (18) to be baptized. I wish Catholics were as good about that.

As for 'sealing,' You are also aware that the child must be the legal child of the parents to whom he IS sealed. That is a requirement. Therefore, unless the non-member parent gives up his/her parental rights and allows the step parent to legally adopt, that to is something that would have to wait for the child to turn 18...

And frankly, it probably wouldn't happen then, either.

The procedure for baptizing the child of a non-member parent is very strict, very clear, and adhered to. As I have already mentioned, though, in Catholicism only the Catholic parent need agree to this...and the child may be baptized even if the other parent is vehemently against the idea. For that matter, according to Father Edward McNamara, in his article dealing with the case of a Catholic grandmother who took her grandchild (the child of a non-practicing Catholic and a Jew) to the fount of Holy Water after Mass and performed the baptism herself, using the proper language. The question was...is this baptism legitimate, or valid?

Evidently, though it was not lawful, it was indeed valid, if unlawful. His advice to the grandmother was to either ask the parents if she could have a private baptism, in which case she could have the child baptized AGAIN, and registered, or else, if they oppose the idea, she would have to simply tell them that it was too late; the child was baptized.

The interesting thing is this; he quoted Canon Law (Canon 868) which evidently provides that while the permission of both parents would be nice, one parent is sufficient; in fact, it is the absolute duty of the Catholic parent to do this, regardless of the wishes of the other parent.

For that matter, the canon specifies that a child in danger of imminent death should be baptized, even if it is against the wishes of BOTH parents. That one made me rather nervous.

Given the official Catholic position on this sort of thing, Paul, your rather...mean spirited...advice to the OP is considerably out of line. WE aren't the people who go about sneaking kids into baptismal fonts with out full permission from both parents, and WE do not seal living children to step parents unless there is A: an adoption happening or B: the child is fully adult and making his/her own decisions. Even then there is a LOT of paperwork and permission getting involved.

(Edited)

Last edited by Michael Francis; Jul 28, '10 at 3:49 pm.
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Old Jul 28, '10, 3:50 pm
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