Protestant Purgatory ?

[twinc]

Do Protestants have no purgatory but only hell because none of their sins have been forgiven - or do they have a different purgatory where they spent more time for the same sins or more unforgiven sins than Catholics and also since none their friends and relations suspect they are there and so do not pray for their early release - twinc

[thistle]

Originally Posted by twinc

Do Protestants have no purgatory but only hell because none of their sins have been forgiven - or do they have a different purgatory where they spent more time for the same sins or more unforgiven sins than Catholics and also since none their friends and relations suspect they are there and so do not pray for their early release - twinc

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9801fea2.asp

[GEddie]

Originally Posted by twinc

Do Protestants have no purgatory but only hell because none of their sins have been forgiven - or do they have a different purgatory where they spent more time for the same sins or more unforgiven sins than Catholics and also since none their friends and relations suspect they are there and so do not pray for their early release - twinc

Everybody goes to Purgatory, unless they are a saint or a martyr (or, lamentably, go to Hell -- my hope is that extremely few human beings will go there). Religious diversity is a manmade distinction; religions do not have their own purgatories. Purgatory is nondenominational You need to work off your sinfulness, period.

Because Protestants do not have sacraments or normally pray for those who die, they potentially have more Purgatory than Catholics. However, many of them are more serious in fighting sin than a lot of us "papists." And, of course, there are many protestant martyrs, such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who potentially would have no Purgatory at all.

In the end it is all in the grace of God. it would be a great idea, though, if every 31 October (anniversary of the Reformation) the faithful would join to pray for those whose faith leaves them no one to pray them out of Purgatory.

ICXC NIKA.

[Carlan]

Originally Posted by twinc

Do Protestants have no purgatory but only hell because none of their sins have been forgiven - or do they have a different purgatory where they spent more time for the same sins or more unforgiven sins than Catholics and also since none their friends and relations suspect they are there and so do not pray for their early release - twinc

Purgatory is a state after death, if we have not yet been made pure of the affects of sin before we die, where our purification is completed before we can enter into heaven(only the pure in heart can see the face of God)
Protestants may not believe this, but they will never the less have to experience it along with the Catholic Christians.Peace, Carlan

[PJM]

=twinc;6903969]Do Protestants have no purgatory but only hell because none of their sins have been forgiven - or do they have a different purgatory where they spent more time for the same sins or more unforgiven sins than Catholics and also since none their friends and relations suspect they are there and so do not pray for their early release - twinc

Actually, there is only ONE Purgatory.

Protestants through "PERFECT CONTRITION" can have there sins forgiven by God while on earth. The issues that remain are : 1. Do they know this requirement? and 2. How can one know of God accepts there attempt at "Perfect Contrition." Assumption and presumption have no role in Gods necessary Divine and fair judgements.

This is because ignoring the PLAN of God, clearly articulated in the Bible, in favor of an "easier," "kinder," "less-judgemental" MAN-MADE [not God Ordained] way to forgiveness is but an accomidation to the gullible sheep too lazy to find and seek truth on there own. God will hold the teachers of the false ways in MUCH greater scruitiny of there actions than those who foolishly follow them.

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20 Verses 20 to 23]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

Mt. 16: 15 He [Jesus] said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I [singular] tell you, you are Peter, [singular] and on this rock [singular] I will build my [singular] church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [singular] 19 I [God singular] will give you [singular] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you [singular] bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Preachers can "dance around it's meaning" trying in vain to justify why they are not part of Gods One Church. [There are in excess of 100 references to BUT One Church / One Faith in the NT].Eph. 4: 4-8 “There is one body [One Church] and one Spirit, [One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, [One God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma] one baptism,[ By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ's gift."

Matt. 18 [THE SAME BOOK where Christ reassurts the Power of His CC to Bind and Loose] 6 "but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

PRAY ABOUT IT!

[twinc]

Originally Posted by GEddie

Everybody goes to Purgatory, unless they are a saint or a martyr (or, lamentably, go to Hell -- my hope is that extremely few human beings will go there). Religious diversity is a manmade distinction; religions do not have their own purgatories. Purgatory is nondenominational You need to work off your sinfulness, period.

Because Protestants do not have sacraments or normally pray for those who die, they potentially have more Purgatory than Catholics. However, many of them are more serious in fighting sin than a lot of us "papists." And, of course, there are many protestant martyrs, such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who potentially would have no Purgatory at all.

In the end it is all in the grace of God. it would be a great idea, though, if every 31 October (anniversary of the Reformation) the faithful would join to pray for those whose faith leaves them no one to pray them out of Purgatory.

ICXC NIKA.

what do you mean "extremely few human beings will go to hell" - this is not according to Christ or the Church - twinc

[GEddie]

Originally Posted by twinc

what do you mean "extremely few human beings will go to hell" - this is not according to Christ or the Church - twinc

We are required to believe that it is possible to go to Hell, and that some *will* go to Hell. It is still possible to hope that few in fact will go there, and to pray for anybody's salvation.

ICXC NIKA.

[twinc]

Originally Posted by PJM

Actually, there is only ONE Purgatory.

Protestants through "PERFECT CONTRITION" can have there sins forgiven by God while on earth. The issues that remain are : 1. Do they know this requirement? and 2. How can one know of God accepts there attempt at "Perfect Contrition." Assumption and presumption have no role in Gods necessary Divine and fair judgements.

This is because ignoring the PLAN of God, clearly articulated in the Bible, in favor of an "easier," "kinder," "less-judgemental" MAN-MADE [not God Ordained] way to forgiveness is but an accomidation to the gullible sheep too lazy to find and seek truth on there own. God will hold the teachers of the false ways in MUCH greater scruitiny of there actions than those who foolishly follow them.

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20 Verses 20 to 23]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

Mt. 16: 15 He [Jesus] said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I [singular] tell you, you are Peter, [singular] and on this rock [singular] I will build my [singular] church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [singular] 19 I [God singular] will give you [singular] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you [singular] bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Preachers can "dance around it's meaning" trying in vain to justify why they are not part of Gods One Church. [There are in excess of 100 references to BUT One Church / One Faith in the NT].Eph. 4: 4-8 “There is one body [One Church] and one Spirit, [One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, [One God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma] one baptism,[ By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ's gift."

Matt. 18 [THE SAME BOOK where Christ reassurts the Power of His CC to Bind and Loose] 6 "but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

PRAY ABOUT IT!

a lot of words,a lot of effort no doubt,but pray tell just at Jn.20:20-23 did Jesus just speak to His Apostles or to His Disciples[followers] which would of course include His Apostles - twinc

[twinc]

Originally Posted by GEddie

We are required to believe that it is possible to go to Hell, and that some *will* go to Hell. It is still possible to hope that few in fact will go there, and to pray for anybody's salvation.

ICXC NIKA.

not some but most - check it out - so we must fear and tremble - twinc

[justamoose89]

Originally Posted by twinc

not some but most - check it out - so we must fear and tremble - twinc

Yep:

"He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to." Luke 13:24

[Lutheranteach]

I think most protestants would tell you they can't go to purgatory because it doesn't exist, and that it never has.

[Carlan]

Originally Posted by Lutheranteach

I think most protestants would tell you they can't go to purgatory because it doesn't exist, and that it never has.

I've understood that Luther being a Catholic priest believed that doctrine,don't you?

Peace, Carlan

[GEddie]

Originally Posted by Lutheranteach

I think most protestants would tell you they can't go to purgatory because it doesn't exist, and that it never has.

Big deal, they'll change their mind fast when they go there

[promethius]

Originally Posted by twinc

not some but most - check it out - so we must fear and tremble - twinc

Irrelevant how MANY will go there, GEddie is right: we SHOULD hope and pray for the salvation of all men, as the father longs for his prodigal son to return, so God yearns for the hearts of man to return to Him. It is, therefore, contrary to the will of God that we should ever hope for anything other than the ultimate conversion and salvation of as many people as possible.

I add that I unashamedly hope and pray that there are very few people who, in the end, choose to reject the mercy and love of God