Effect of Married Priests

MikeL · #1 Apr 6, '05, 9:09 am

Seems the biggest reason cited for allowing married priests is to solve the priest shortage. Does anyone seriously think thousands of married men will suddenly discern a priestly vocation if the celibacy requirement was lifted? I don't.

If celibacy is the single biggest reason behind the lack of priests, how come
1. This was not an issue until the past 30 or 40 years?
2. This is not an issue in Africa?

Is there any research that suggests what the effects would be of allowing married men (excluding married converts from say the Episcopal Church) to become priests?

bogeyjlg · #2 Apr 6, '05, 9:21 am

The real problem doesn't lie in whether or not we allow married priest or not. The problem stems from the attacks on BOTH marriage and the priesthood. The fact of the matter is, if we lose one we will lose the other. Good and holy priest come from families that have a strong faith and morals and the marriage that created the family is filed with love and holiness. Unless we clean up both, we will have niether. I believe the solution lies in the removal of divorce (the worst attack on the family in history).

And yes, I do believe there is also a shortage of holy marriages just as much as there is a shortage of holy priests.

Brad · #3 Apr 6, '05, 9:26 am

Pastoral leaders are down across all demoninations, whether married or not, irregardless of church in countries that have accepted secularlism and naturalism as superior to God. It has nothing to do with marital status.

**mercygate** · #4 Apr 6, '05, 9:27 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bogeyjlg

The real problem doesn't lie in whether or not we allow married priest or not. The problem stems from the attacks on BOTH marriage and the priesthood. The fact of the matter is, if we lose one we will lose the other. Good and holy priest come from families that have a strong faith and morals and the marriage that created the family is filed with love and holiness. Unless we clean up both, we will have niether. I believe the solution lies in the removal of divorce (the worst attack on the family in history).

And yes, I do believe there is also a shortage of holy marriages just as much as there is a shortage of holy priests.

I submit that widespread birth control is the biggest reason for the Priest shortage. Unfaithful parents are less likely to create the seedbed that fosters growth of self-giving vocations.

I know one young person whose parents admittedly limited the size of their family via contraception, and now the parents are doing everything in their power to persuade, coerce, blackmail him into defaulting on his call to Priesthood so that they can have the grandchildren they want.

jlw · #5 Apr 6, '05, 9:40 am

If marriage is supposed to "increase vocations" by leaps and bounds, why then, aren't there a gazillion deacons at every parrish, eh??

As someone said before, It's more about the culture. Piety, duty, and sacrifice are looked upon as at best, wierd, or at worst, sadist.

Michael C · #6 Apr 6, '05, 9:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeL

Seems the biggest reason cited for allowing married priests is to solve the priest shortage. Does anyone seriously think thousands of married men will suddenly discern a priestly vocation if the celibacy requirement was lifted? I don't.

If celibacy is the single biggest reason behind the lack of priests, how come
1. This was not an issue until the past 30 or 40 years?
2. This is not an issue in Africa?

Is there any research that suggests what the effects would be of allowing married men (excluding married converts from say the Episcopal Church) to become priests?

I don't think it's a matter of married men hearing the call, instead a large number of preists that left the preist hood to get married would return.
Personally I don't think we need to lift the requirment for celibacy.

chevalier · #7 Apr 6, '05, 9:42 am

During a conversation with me, a Protestant (female) said that women in the parish would compete for the priest's attention, some would be jealous, some would feel it's their priest and not the others'. Then it would also be hard to imagine a priest hitting on a congregant not looking bad.

Who am I, personally, to deny our priests anything, if it's a matter of discipline more than doctrine. But our celibate priesthood derives part of its strength from exactly that - being celibate.

MikeL · #8 Apr 6, '05, 9:48 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael C

I don't think it's a matter of married men hearing the call, instead a large number of preists that left the preist hood to get married would return.
Personally I don't think we need to lift the requirment for celibacy.

That raises the question of whether or nor we really want the return of priests that took a vow of celibacy and then broke it...

bogeyjlg · #9 Apr 6, '05, 9:49 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlw

If marriage is supposed to "increase vocations" by leaps and bounds, why then, aren't there a gazillion deacons at every parrish, eh??

As someone said before, It's more about the culture. Piety, duty, and sacrifice are looked upon as at best, wierd, or at worst, sadist.

Perhaps you missed the qualifier I attached to marriage or did I forget it. "HOLY" is the keyword without HOLY marriage you do not have HOLY families that foster HOLY priests. Only in an atmosphere of true love and HOLINESS will we see more priests. After all, a true marriage is supposed to immitate the love of God for His church. Read Revelation 19:7.

Michael C · #10 Apr 6, '05, 9:51 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeL

That raises the question of whether or nor we really want the return of priests that took a vow of celibacy and then broke it...

Excellent point. I think it is also a financial decision. If I decide to become a preist is the rectory going to put me up with my 4 daughters, wife and cover my basic costs for supporting a family?

mtr01 · #11 Apr 6, '05, 10:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevalier

During a conversation with me, a Protestant (female) said that women in the parish would compete for the priest's attention, some would be jealous, some would feel it's their priest and not the others'. Then it would also be hard to imagine a priest hitting on a congregant not looking bad.

Who am I, personally, to deny our priests anything, if it's a matter of discipline more than doctrine. But our celibate priesthood derives part of its strength from exactly that - being celibate.

You know, that's a point of view I haven't considered. Thank you for posting. It would certainly would be quite a mess to have a priest flirting with and dating several different female members of his parish.

**buffalo** · #12 Apr 6, '05, 10:45 am

Teach the Truth and vocations will follow.

mtr01 · #13 Apr 6, '05, 10:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalo

Teach the Truth and vocations will follow.

I think you are correct. It seems more lilely to me that the decrease in vocations at least indirectly results from the "liberalization" of the Church (that is, the opennes to secular values); increased "liberalization" and bending of Church doctrine, it seems to me, would further deplete the priesthood, rather than add more vocations.

Not to mention that it would pretty much render the Church meaningless.

legeorge · #14 Apr 6, '05, 11:19 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtr01

I think you are correct. It seems more lilely to me that the decrease in vocations at least indirectly results from the "liberalization" of the Church (that is, the opennes to secular values); increased "liberalization" and bending of Church doctrine, it seems to me, would further deplete the priesthood, rather than add more vocations.

Not to mention that it would pretty much render the Church meaningless.

I think that you, among others on this thread, have come up with wonderful answers to this debate. I agree that liberalism is a direct factor in the priest shortage. If you look at the statistics, the more "liberal" orders are dying out with no new recruits, but the more "conservative" orders are full of new seminarians. Watch out for Fr. Pavone's new order of pro-life priests! They are going to be very full!! Just wait. The orders will be full again. The JPII generation is coming to fruition. And the Church will be as strong as ever!

bjorn · #15 Apr 6, '05, 11:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeL

Seems the biggest reason cited for allowing married priests is to solve the priest shortage. Does anyone seriously think thousands of married men will suddenly discern a priestly vocation if the celibacy requirement was lifted? I don't.

If celibacy is the single biggest reason behind the lack of priests, how come
1. This was not an issue until the past 30 or 40 years?
2. This is not an issue in Africa?

Is there any research that suggests what the effects would be of allowing married men (excluding married converts from say the Episcopal Church) to become priests?

why would you ask this question and then exclude the best argument in favor of married priests which is that married converts are just as good priests as non married celibate priests. in fact perhaps better because they have a better understanding of what family life is all about.