>2/3 Mormons & <1/2 Catholics Republican?

[RebeccaJ]

Originally Posted by lax16

Please stop defecting....you never answer any questions but jump in and respond with more questions! Ugh - you are starting to drive me crazy. Are you whyme reincarnated?

I was thinking he is the why me of 25 years ago.

[ManOnFire]

Originally Posted by Gumbercules

I have been posed this question before. Why are a lot of Catholics Democrats or liberals?

The answer of course comes from American history. During the late 1800's and early 1900's, many immigrants to the United States were coming from predominantly Catholic countries such as Ireland, Italy, Croatia, and other eastern European Countries. When they came to the USA they faced moderate to severe persecution by the nativist elements in American society. They were generally poor and had to work working class jobs in industry. Because of their working conditions they formed and joined Labor Unions. The Democratic Party was the primary party that supported the labor unions, and the labor movement, hence in the early to middle 1900's, the Democratic Party enjoyed strong Catholic support. A turning point came in 1973 when the Democratic Party championed and supported the Roe V Wade decision of the Supreme Court. Now Catholics had to choose between their religion and their political party. Should they choose the party that has always supported the rights of workers and labor unions, or should they choose the religion that remained a permanent aspect of their lives. Of course many Catholics ended up choosing their party, thereby alienating themselves from their Church, and many choose their Church, thereby alienating themselves from their Party. It has only been in the last 30 or so years that the Democratic Party has been at odds with the teachings of the Church, gay marriage being a rather new political issue. I suspect that the faithful Catholics who are true to the Church will outlast the compromising Catholics who have abandoned apostolic teaching for political convenience. And now since the Labor movement is not as big an issue as it was 60 years ago, there really is no reason for a Catholic to support or be a member of the Democratic Party.

Good post.

Too many of us Catholics have come to worship the values of the unelected pop culture media without realizing it. It's too bad they are busy ruining relationships by promoting individula selfishness and reducing people into neanderthals who crave love-less lust and chemical brain pleasurism. I'm still trying to figure out what part of this is even remotely Catholic.

[Todd520]

Originally Posted by RebeccaJ

Maybe you should pay attention and read post #50 for an example of the pragmatism found in LDS morality, as applied to politics.

Thanks for the supporting example. I found the post to show the LDS as very Christian and within the Articles of Faith for LDS.

I would have been unhappy if they had not supported the changes (more pragmatic in my eyes)

I don't believe they are legally required to apply it to church employment. All denominations of faith have expectations they hold their staff to as representatives of the faith.

For a bit of contrast, does the Catholic conglomerate have a position on hiring practicing gays? (not celebate priests)

[twopekinguys]

Originally Posted by Todd520

For a bit of contrast, does the Catholic conglomerate have a position on hiring practicing gays? (not celebate priests)

You might want to tread lightly making statements like this.

[Catherine D]

Originally Posted by Todd520

Thanks for the supporting example. I found the post to show the LDS as very Christian and within the Articles of Faith for LDS.

I would have been unhappy if they had not supported the changes (more pragmatic in my eyes)

I don't believe they are legally required to apply it to church employment. All denominations of faith have expectations they hold their staff to as representatives of the faith.

For a bit of contrast, does the Catholic conglomerate have a position on hiring practicing gays? (not celebate priests)

The Director of our Music Ministry is gay (not sure if he is practicing or not and it isn't my business anyway.) When he was hired he wasn't Catholic but he has since been confirmed.

Not sure what the position of the Church may or may not be, but there's an example.

Let's hear yours.

[twopekinguys]

Originally Posted by lax16

Pahoran - Why don't you, since you are a Mormon, provide church documentation showing where your church stands on these topics?

Why ask others to prove your religion for you? I think you should respond with official church teaching on the subject and not by attempting to discredit a poster (who happens to be a former Mormon btw - how typical! )

I agree.

After all, he has said he is here to "defend" his church.

Time to show us what you're defending.

I have heard it over and over and over again, that nobody gets to tell them what they believe (even if references are provided), yet, we don't see anything to back up their "defense".

[Todd520]

Originally Posted by twopekinguys

You might want to tread lightly making statements like this.

To be clear, I believe both the Catholic and LDS faiths have the right to not hire someone because of their preference. I belive I am just stating my support for the law though

[twopekinguys]

Originally Posted by Todd520

To be clear, I believe both the Catholic and LDS faiths have the right to not hire someone because of their preference. I belive I am just stating my support for the law though

Whether you aree with the law or not, is not relevant.

What is relevant is your statement containing 1)Catholic conglomorate 2) Practing gays (non celibate priests), one does not equate to the other, and the Church is not a conglomorate.

You might want to review the forum rules. Specifically under "conduct", item 1, and innuendo.

[LongJourney]

Originally Posted by twopekinguys

2) Practicing gays (non celibate priests), Specifically under "conduct", item 1, and innuendo.

I also infer that he believes that Catholic priests are predominantly SSA.

[Todd520]

Apologies, here is a non-offending question equal to the starting post.

For a bit of contrast, does the Catholic Church Organization have a position on hiring practicing gays?

[Catherine D]

Originally Posted by Todd520

Apologies, here is a non-offending question equal to the starting post.

For a bit of contrast, does the Catholic Church Organization have a position on hiring practicing gays?

While you're asking, please address post #65.

[Todd520]

Originally Posted by Catherine D

The Director of our Music Ministry is gay (not sure if he is practicing or not and it isn't my business anyway.) When he was hired he wasn't Catholic but he has since been confirmed.

Not sure what the position of the Church may or may not be, but there's an example.

Let's hear yours.

I believe in tolerance and would hope that sexual orientation is not a hiring criteria in most cases. However, that does not mean I want to force it on a Faith based organization.

I don't have any good or bad examples of LDS church conduct in this area.

[lax16]

Originally Posted by Todd520

Apologies, here is a non-offending question equal to the starting post.

For a bit of contrast, does the Catholic Church Organization have a position on hiring practicing gays?

I am not sure if this is off-topic but here goes:

CONGREGATION FOR CATHOLIC EDUCATION


Instruction
Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations
with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies
in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders

Introduction

In continuity with the teaching of the Second Vatican Council and, in particular, with the Decree Optatam Totius[1] on priestly formation, the Congregation for Catholic Education has published various Documents with the aim of promoting a suitable, integral formation of future priests, by offering guidelines and precise norms regarding its diverse aspects.[2] In the meantime, the 1990 Synod of Bishops also reflected on the formation of priests in the circumstances of the present day, with the intention of bringing to completion the doctrine of the Council on this theme and making it more explicit and effective in today's world. Following this Synod, Pope John Paul II published the Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation Pastores Dabo Vobis.[3]

In light of this abundant teaching, the present Instruction does not intend to dwell on all questions in the area of affectivity and sexuality that require an attentive discernment during the entire period of formation. Rather, it contains norms concerning a specific question, made more urgent by the current situation, and that is: whether to admit to the seminary and to holy orders candidates who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies.

1. Affective Maturity and Spiritual Fatherhood

According to the constant Tradition of the Church, only a baptized person of the male sex[4] validly receives sacred Ordination. By means of the Sacrament of Orders, the Holy Spirit configures the candidate to Jesus Christ in a new and specific way: the priest, in fact, sacramentally represents Christ, the head, shepherd and spouse of the Church[5]. Because of this configuration to Christ, the entire life of the sacred minister must be animated by the gift of his whole person to the Church and by an authentic pastoral charity[6].

The candidate to the ordained ministry, therefore, must reach affective maturity. Such maturity will allow him to relate correctly to both men and women, developing in him a true sense of spiritual fatherhood towards the Church community that will be entrusted to him[7].

2. Homosexuality and the Ordained Ministry

From the time of the Second Vatican Council until today, various Documents of the Magisterium, and especially the Catechism of the Catholic Church, have confirmed the teaching of the Church on homosexuality. The Catechism distinguishes between homosexual acts and homosexual tendencies.

Regarding acts, it teaches that Sacred Scripture presents them as grave sins. The Tradition has constantly considered them as intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law. Consequently, under no circumstance can they be approved.

Deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are found in a number of men and women, are also objectively disordered and, for those same people, often constitute a trial. Such persons must be accepted with respect and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. They are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter[8].

In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question[9], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture"[10].

Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies.

Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem - for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate.

[lax16]

continued:

3. Discernment by the Church Concerning the Suitability of Candidates

There are two inseparable elements in every priestly vocation: the free gift of God and the responsible freedom of the man. A vocation is a gift of divine grace, received through the Church, in the Church and for the service of the Church. In responding to the call of God, the man offers himself freely to him in love[11]. The desire alone to become a priest is not sufficient, and there does not exist a right to receive sacred ordination. It belongs to the Church - in her responsibility to define the necessary requirements for receiving the sacraments instituted by Christ - to discern the suitability of him who desires to enter the seminary[12], to accompany him during his years of formation, and to call him to holy orders if he is judged to possess the necessary qualities[13].

The formation of the future priest must distinctly articulate, in an essentially complementary manner, the four dimensions of formation: human, spiritual, intellectual and pastoral[14]. In this context, it is necessary to highlight the particular importance of human formation as the necessary foundation of all formation[15]. In order to admit a candidate to ordination to the diaconate, the Church must verify, among other things, that the candidate has reached affective maturity[16].

The call to orders is the personal responsibility of the Bishop[17] or the major superior. Bearing in mind the opinion of those to whom he has entrusted the responsibility of formation, the Bishop or major superior, before admitting the candidate to ordination, must arrive at a morally certain judgment on his qualities. In the case of a serious doubt in this regard, he must not admit him to ordination[18].

The discernment of a vocation and of the maturity of the candidate is also a serious duty of the rector and of the other persons entrusted with the work of formation in the seminary. Before every ordination, the rector must express his own judgment on whether the qualities required by the Church are present in the candidate[19].

In the discernment concerning the suitability for ordination, the spiritual director has an important task. Although he is bound to secrecy, he represents the Church in the internal forum. In his discussions with the candidate, the spiritual director must especially point out the demands of the Church concerning priestly chastity and the affective maturity that is characteristic of the priest, as well as help him to discern whether he has the necessary qualities[20]. The spiritual director has the obligation to evaluate all the qualities of the candidate's personality and to make sure that he does not present disturbances of a sexual nature, which are incompatible with the priesthood. If a candidate practises homosexuality or presents deep-seated homosexual tendencies, his spiritual director as well as his confessor have the duty to dissuade him in conscience from proceeding towards ordination.

It goes without saying that the candidate himself has the primary responsibility for his own formation[21]. He must offer himself trustingly to the discernment of the Church, of the Bishop who calls him to orders, of the rector of the seminary, of his spiritual director and of the other seminary educators to whom the Bishop or major superior has entrusted the task of forming future priests. It would be gravely dishonest for a candidate to hide his own homosexuality in order to proceed, despite everything, towards ordination. Such a deceitful attitude does not correspond to the spirit of truth, loyalty and openness that must characterize the personality of him who believes he is called to serve Christ and his Church in the ministerial priesthood.

Conclusion

This Congregation reaffirms the need for Bishops, major superiors and all relevant authorities to carry out an attentive discernment concerning the suitability of candidates for holy orders, from the time of admission to the seminary until ordination. This discernment must be done in light of a conception of the ministerial priesthood that is in accordance with the teaching of the Church.
Let Bishops, episcopal conferences and major superiors look to see that the constant norms of this Instruction be faithfully observed for the good of the candidates themselves, and to guarantee that the Church always has suitable priests who are true shepherds according to the Heart of Christ.

The Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI, on 31 August 2005, approved this present Instruction and ordered its publication.

Rome, 4 November 2005, Memorial of St Charles Borromeo, Patron of Seminaries

Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski
Prefect

J. Michael Miller, C.S.B.
Tit. Archbp. of Vertara
Secretary


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[Catherine D]

Is there a Catholic policy regarding persons who work for the Church but are not clergy?