Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > In The News > Catholic News
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #16  
Old Sep 10, '10, 8:05 am
EmperorNapoleon EmperorNapoleon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2009
Posts: 6,428
Religion: Agnostic
Send a message via AIM to EmperorNapoleon
Default Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soutane View Post
No I have not....
No one who hasn't read the book knows what Hawking actually said let alone whether not he provides proof. I'm skeptical of the media reports. They don't provide the quote in context or in completion and the way they're spinning the quote that was plucked simply doesn't sound like something Hawking would say or mean. It's more likely that his conclusions are either being misrepresented or misunderstood. The unfortunate truth is that a lot is lost in translation when dumbing down quantum mechanics to something the average joe can understand.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old Sep 10, '10, 8:55 am
Soutane Soutane is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: October 6, 2008
Posts: 3,954
Religion: Latin Rite Catholic
Default Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorNapoleon View Post
No one who hasn't read the book knows what Hawking actually said let alone whether not he provides proof. I'm skeptical of the media reports. They don't provide the quote in context or in completion and the way they're spinning the quote that was plucked simply doesn't sound like something Hawking would say or mean. It's more likely that his conclusions are either being misrepresented or misunderstood. The unfortunate truth is that a lot is lost in translation when dumbing down quantum mechanics to something the average joe can understand.
Gee thanks for explaining it to a moron like me.Have YOU read the book?From what I can glean of your post it appears you have not either but you're bold enough to come to conclusions or should I say THEORIES about what he may have meant?I've read Hawking's other books and he contradicts himself.I have read the Jesuitical analysis though,have you?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Sep 10, '10, 10:31 am
EmperorNapoleon EmperorNapoleon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2009
Posts: 6,428
Religion: Agnostic
Send a message via AIM to EmperorNapoleon
Default Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soutane View Post
Gee thanks for explaining it to a moron like me.Have YOU read the book?From what I can glean of your post it appears you have not either but you're bold enough to come to conclusions or should I say THEORIES about what he may have meant?
I haven't read the book yet but I probably will. I can come to reasonable conclusions regarding what Hawking meant by that limited statement plucked by the media based on his other writings and statements. He is not an atheist; never has been and he has never postulated that a God does not exist. He is most likely arguing that the metaphysical speculation that there would be an impossibly infinite chain of causation without a God has been successfully refuted by M-theory but he would not argue that this completely refutes the existence of a God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soutane View Post
I've read Hawking's other books and he contradicts himself.
Examples?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Sep 10, '10, 11:51 am
Good Fella Good Fella is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2007
Posts: 2,160
Religion: Roman Catholic
Cool Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soutane View Post
7-September-2010 -- Catholic News Agency Share |


Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say
ROME, ITALY, September 3 (CNA/EWTN News) - Dr. Stephen Hawking's new book, "The Grand Design," makes the bold claim that the universe "created itself from nothing" based on physical laws such as gravity, making God unnecessary for a self-created and self-unfolding model of the universe. However, two Catholic scholars trained in physics say his remarks misconstrue the real relationship between God and creation.

A Jesuit priest and scholar, former president of Gongaza University Fr. Robert Spitzer, says that Hawking's dismissal of God in favor of physics reflects fundamental confusions about the Christian concept of God, as the creator of all that exists-- both the physical universe, and the laws of physics which apply to it.

When this is understood, Fr. Spitzer said, Hawking's basic confusion becomes clear. Although Hawking talks about the universe "creating itself from nothing," he is presupposing that this "nothing" somehow involved gravity and other fundamental laws of physics, Fr. Spitzer explained.


http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=105368
I asked myself the same implicit question: Did gravity create itself out of nothing by some prior law so that the universe could do likewise? Honestly, common sense tells me that a blind mindless force cannot be responsible for its own existence, and that includes physical entities described as closed systems.
__________________

"Behold your mother."
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Sep 10, '10, 12:14 pm
Good Fella Good Fella is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2007
Posts: 2,160
Religion: Roman Catholic
Cool Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorNapoleon View Post
I haven't read the book yet but I probably will. I can come to reasonable conclusions regarding what Hawking meant by that limited statement plucked by the media based on his other writings and statements. He is not an atheist; never has been and he has never postulated that a God does not exist. He is most likely arguing that the metaphysical speculation that there would be an impossibly infinite chain of causation without a God has been successfully refuted by M-theory but he would not argue that this completely refutes the existence of a God.
A theory cannot successfully refute any other theory or belief as long as it remains just that - a theory.
__________________

"Behold your mother."
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Sep 10, '10, 12:26 pm
cara1 cara1 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2010
Posts: 98
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski View Post
Thumbs up on that one! I have four years of a Jesuit high school (Regis, in NYC) and four years at a Jesuit university (Fordham, in The Bronx, NY). I don't think they come any finer as teachers and scholars than the Jebbies. .
Here, here for the Jesuits, also. I think that this is the premier order for someone interested in evangelizing through teaching or preaching and not focused so much on the Office or community prayer.

I think that Hawking is not so much arguing against the existence of God as saying that God's existence is not essential to the existence of the universe. More reassurance for the atheists, who when asked who created the universe, can counter that it doesn't need a creator.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Sep 10, '10, 12:28 pm
cara1 cara1 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2010
Posts: 98
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

As an aside, I think that it would be daunting to debate Hawking because of his extreme disability. He has an electronic voice, for example. Nevertheless, it should be interesting. (I don't have cable anyway).
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Sep 10, '10, 2:45 pm
OrdinaryMelkite OrdinaryMelkite is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: August 31, 2010
Posts: 4,917
Religion: Eastern Catholic
Default Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soutane View Post
7-September-2010 -- Catholic News Agency Share |


Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say
ROME, ITALY, September 3 (CNA/EWTN News) - Dr. Stephen Hawking's new book, "The Grand Design," makes the bold claim that the universe "created itself from nothing" based on physical laws such as gravity, making God unnecessary for a self-created and self-unfolding model of the universe. However, two Catholic scholars trained in physics say his remarks misconstrue the real relationship between God and creation.

A Jesuit priest and scholar, former president of Gongaza University Fr. Robert Spitzer, says that Hawking's dismissal of God in favor of physics reflects fundamental confusions about the Christian concept of God, as the creator of all that exists-- both the physical universe, and the laws of physics which apply to it.

When this is understood, Fr. Spitzer said, Hawking's basic confusion becomes clear. Although Hawking talks about the universe "creating itself from nothing," he is presupposing that this "nothing" somehow involved gravity and other fundamental laws of physics, Fr. Spitzer explained.


http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=105368
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Sep 10, '10, 3:31 pm
Soutane Soutane is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: October 6, 2008
Posts: 3,954
Religion: Latin Rite Catholic
Default Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorNapoleon View Post
I haven't read the book yet but I probably will. I can come to reasonable conclusions regarding what Hawking meant by that limited statement plucked by the media based on his other writings and statements. He is not an atheist; never has been and he has never postulated that a God does not exist. He is most likely arguing that the metaphysical speculation that there would be an impossibly infinite chain of causation without a God has been successfully refuted by M-theory but he would not argue that this completely refutes the existence of a God.



Examples?
In this book he denies the possibility of God,in other words POOF something out of nothing-no original push to the billiard balls.In his previous works he acknowledged the possibility if not probability of God or an uninvolved(where does he get the evidence for that except his own personal prejudices)God Source who basically ignited the firecracker.


You really have a lot of THEORIES and MOST LIKELIES for someone who hasn't even read the book.Why don't you do so and get back to us.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Sep 10, '10, 3:40 pm
Soutane Soutane is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: October 6, 2008
Posts: 3,954
Religion: Latin Rite Catholic
Default Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

Quote:
Originally Posted by cara1 View Post
Here, here for the Jesuits, also. I think that this is the premier order for someone interested in evangelizing through teaching or preaching and not focused so much on the Office or community prayer.

I think that Hawking is not so much arguing against the existence of God as saying that God's existence is not essential to the existence of the universe. More reassurance for the atheists, who when asked who created the universe, can counter that it doesn't need a creator.
How incisive."Because Stephen Hawking said so"It solves the Athiests biggest riddle doesn't it?Just wait to see this justification begin popping up on these fora.You are one smart cookie Cara.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Sep 12, '10, 3:15 pm
unafraid unafraid is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2009
Posts: 566
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

The timing of the release of this book from a British physicist with the publicity-generating notoriety of Hawking seems curiously coincidental when considering the imminent Papal vist; a visit which has spawned organized and malicious opposition from the "New Atheists"( and their like ) in Great Britain. Somewhere, in the background, I hear the wheezing, hyperventilatory breathing of Christopher Hitchens (or another of his ilk), flushed with vitriol, shrieking in some sort of ghastly ecstasy.

This Papal visit will be unlike any other we have witnessed, in my opinion . We will be shocked by the unbridled disrespect and hatred which will be unleashed against the Pope and the Church (I hope I'm wrong). In the end, it might get uncomfortable for the Papal entourage, but it will be the largely wonderful people of Britain who will be embarassed by all of the poor taste and low form.

I believe the timing of this book is not an accident, as I feel that the enemies of God are well organized, and are in the midst of a global campaign of blasphemy. As for the book, I will not read it. The laws of physics have always impressed me as being obviously and beautifully of divine origin. To the true believers, these things are annoying, but never threatening. I always come back to when they asked Jung, "Do you believe there is a God?", and he answered, "I do not believe there is a God...I KNOW that there is." That sums it up for me, as well.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Sep 12, '10, 4:16 pm
1234 1234 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: January 10, 2008
Posts: 1,094
Default Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

Quote:
Originally Posted by unafraid View Post
The timing of the release of this book from a British physicist with the publicity-generating notoriety of Hawking seems curiously coincidental when considering the imminent Papal vist; a visit which has spawned organized and malicious opposition from the "New Atheists"( and their like ) in Great Britain. Somewhere, in the background, I hear the wheezing, hyperventilatory breathing of Christopher Hitchens (or another of his ilk), flushed with vitriol, shrieking in some sort of ghastly ecstasy.

This Papal visit will be unlike any other we have witnessed, in my opinion . We will be shocked by the unbridled disrespect and hatred which will be unleashed against the Pope and the Church (I hope I'm wrong). In the end, it might get uncomfortable for the Papal entourage, but it will be the largely wonderful people of Britain who will be embarassed by all of the poor taste and low form.

I believe the timing of this book is not an accident, as I feel that the enemies of God are well organized, and are in the midst of a global campaign of blasphemy. As for the book, I will not read it. The laws of physics have always impressed me as being obviously and beautifully of divine origin. To the true believers, these things are annoying, but never threatening. I always come back to when they asked Jung, "Do you believe there is a God?", and he answered, "I do not believe there is a God...I KNOW that there is." That sums it up for me, as well.
The point is that Hawking appears to be saying that the laws of physics and what they imply is that the universe is not necessarily of divine origin. You can believe in their divine origin if you wish, but you don't have to. His view of the creation of the universe does not require a divine being. Atheists will like this. He doesn't say whether he's an atheist or not.

England is marked by poor taste and low form--look at their tabloids. Nothing new about this. I worry about the Irish reception--lots of Irish in the UK. In any case, I don't think that it will rattle BXVI one iota.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old Sep 12, '10, 4:50 pm
OrdinaryMelkite OrdinaryMelkite is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: August 31, 2010
Posts: 4,917
Religion: Eastern Catholic
Default Re: Hawking's New Book Does Not Dismiss The Real God From Creation, Jesuit Scholars Say

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1234 View Post
The point is that Hawking appears to be saying that the laws of physics and what they imply is that the universe is not necessarily of divine origin. You can believe in their divine origin if you wish, but you don't have to. His view of the creation of the universe does not require a divine being. Atheists will like this. He doesn't say whether he's an atheist or not.

England is marked by poor taste and low form--look at their tabloids. Nothing new about this. I worry about the Irish reception--lots of Irish in the UK. In any case, I don't think that it will rattle BXVI one iota.
This is my viewpoint as well.

To be perfectly cynical, I would also say that Hawking is trying to keep himself "well liked" by the British Intelligentsia, who would not take kindly to a statement of Belief in a Higher Power/First Creator from its most visible scientist.

So, IN A WAY, it IS about publicity.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > In The News > Catholic News

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8535Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: svid2
5197CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: James_OPL
4433Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3869SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3833Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3391Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3299Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3231Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Rifester
3150For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: flower lady



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 1:24 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.