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  #1  
Old Oct 6, '10, 9:19 am
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mikeledes mikeledes is offline
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Default HELP!!! Is the celebrant always required to use a chasuble? And how about the chasuble-alb?

Hello. A priest at my parish is using something that looks like a chasuble-alb. He says it's ok to use an alb without a chasuble to celebrate Mass. Is that true? If not, can you please provide documentation so that I can prove it to him? And how about the "chasuble-alb", which is a combination of an alb with a chasuble? Is that allowed? And can you please provide documentation? Thanks!

God Bless,
Michael
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  #2  
Old Oct 6, '10, 9:38 am
Pregustator Pregustator is offline
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Default Re: HELP!!! Is the celebrant always required to use a chasuble? And how about the chasuble-alb?

It is forbidden under normal circumstances for the celebrant to omit the chasuble when celebrating mass.

As far as a "chasuble alb", I have neither heard of such a creature, neither can I conceive of one. I am at pains to contemplate how a chasuble and an alb might be combined to form a single garment.
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  #3  
Old Oct 6, '10, 9:50 am
SonCatcher SonCatcher is offline
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Default Re: HELP!!! Is the celebrant always required to use a chasuble? And how about the chasuble-alb?

As far as I know, the celebrant is only required to wear an alb and stole. A Chasuble may be optional but certainly preferred. It's important to note this is discipline, not doctrine. In case of great need, I'm not sure any specific vestments are required.

I have often seen a priest on retreat or for daily mass use only the alb and stole.
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Last edited by SonCatcher; Oct 6, '10 at 10:00 am. Reason: clarified in light of later post
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  #4  
Old Oct 6, '10, 9:53 am
benedictgal benedictgal is offline
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Default Re: HELP!!! Is the celebrant always required to use a chasuble? And how about the chasuble-alb?

This is what Redemptionis Sacramentum states:

Quote:
4. Liturgical Vesture
[121.] "The purpose of a variety of color of the sacred vestments is to give effective expression even outwardly to the specific character of the mysteries of faith being celebrated and to a sense of Christian life's passage through the course of the liturgical year".210 On the other hand, the variety "of offices in the celebration of the Eucharist is shown outwardly by the diversity of sacred vestments. In fact, these "sacred vestments should also contribute to the beauty of the sacred action itself".211

[122.] "The alb" is "to be tied at the waist with a cincture unless it is made so as to fit even without a cincture. Before the alb is put on, if it does not completely cover the ordinary clothing at the neck, an amice should be put on".212

[123.] "The vestment proper to the Priest celebrant at Mass, and in other sacred actions directly connected with Mass unless otherwise indicated, is the chasuble, worn over the alb and stole".213 Likewise the Priest, in putting on the chasuble according to the rubrics, is not to omit the stole. All Ordinaries should be vigilant in order that all usage to the contrary be eradicated.

[124.] A faculty is given in the Roman Missal for the Priest concelebrants at Mass other than the principal concelebrant (who should always put on a chasuble of the prescribed color), for a just reason such as a large number of concelebrants or a lack of vestments, to omit "the chasuble, using the stole over the alb".214 Where a need of this kind can be foreseen, however, provision should be made for it insofar as possible. Out of necessity the concelebrants other than the principal celebrant may even put on white chasubles. For the rest, the norms of the liturgical books are to be observed.

[125.] The proper vestment of the Deacon is the dalmatic, to be worn over an alb and stole. In order that the beautiful tradition of the Church may be preserved, it is praiseworthy to refrain from exercising the option of omitting the dalmatic.215

[126.] The abuse is reprobated whereby the sacred ministers celebrate Holy Mass or other rites without sacred vestments or with only a stole over the monastic cowl or the common habit of religious or ordinary clothes, contrary to the prescriptions of the liturgical books, even when there is only one minister participating.216 In order that such abuses be corrected as quickly as possible, Ordinaries should take care that in all churches and oratories subject to their jurisdiction there is present an adequate supply of liturgical vestments made in accordance with the norms.
I hope this helps.
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  #5  
Old Oct 6, '10, 10:15 am
TheMc TheMc is offline
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Default Re: HELP!!! Is the celebrant always required to use a chasuble? And how about the chasuble-alb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonCatcher View Post
As far as I know, the celebrant is only required to wear an alb and stole. A Chasuble may be optional but certainly preferred. It's important to note this is discipline, not doctrine. In case of great need, I'm not sure any specific vestments are required.

I have often seen a priest on retreat or for daily mass use only the alb and stole.
Actually, the chasuble is required. It should be worn for all masses. The only exception is when there is a large number of concelebrants, and not enough chasubles. Other than that, even concelebrants should have chasubles. And even in the exception above, it is highly encouraged to get chasubles for them to wear.

At large (diocesan) masses, all the priests except the "main concelebrants" (technicly, there's no difference between "main concelebrants" and "general concelebrants". Usually the "Main" ones are other bishops and the rector of the cathedral) wear alb and stole, but I hear the diocese is looking into getting enough chasubles for all of them.
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  #6  
Old Oct 6, '10, 10:31 am
Aramis Aramis is offline
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Default Re: HELP!!! Is the celebrant always required to use a chasuble? And how about the chasuble-alb?

The "Chasuble-Alb" was permitted for several years; it no longer is permitted. (Noonan, 1996, The Church Visible.)

In other words, your priest is using a vestment disallowed for more than a decade. It was permitted, for about a decade, but it is not now permitted.
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  #7  
Old Oct 6, '10, 10:49 am
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mikeledes mikeledes is offline
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Default Re: HELP!!! Is the celebrant always required to use a chasuble? And how about the chasuble-alb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramis View Post
The "Chasuble-Alb" was permitted for several years; it no longer is permitted. (Noonan, 1996, The Church Visible.)

In other words, your priest is using a vestment disallowed for more than a decade. It was permitted, for about a decade, but it is not now permitted.
Can you give me an official document that prohibits it? Or a link? I would really appreciate it! Thanks!

God Bless,
Michael
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  #8  
Old Oct 6, '10, 11:23 am
benedictgal benedictgal is offline
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Default Re: HELP!!! Is the celebrant always required to use a chasuble? And how about the chasuble-alb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeledes View Post
Can you give me an official document that prohibits it? Or a link? I would really appreciate it! Thanks!

God Bless,
Michael
Redemptionis Sacramentum, which I posted in my initial response, covers the topic, I believe.
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  #9  
Old Oct 6, '10, 12:03 pm
Aramis Aramis is offline
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Default Re: HELP!!! Is the celebrant always required to use a chasuble? And how about the chasuble-alb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeledes View Post
Can you give me an official document that prohibits it? Or a link? I would really appreciate it! Thanks!

God Bless,
Michael
The US GIRM, as quoth by Benedictgal, calls for separate alb, then stole, then chasuble. It permits omission of the cincture and the amice. A cassock under the alb is optional, but some form of street dress is required.

Repemtionis Sacramentum also reiterates those rubrics (section V: Redemptionis Sacramentum)

It specifically forbids a chasuble without an alb, even if wearing a white cassock or habit.
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  #10  
Old Oct 7, '10, 8:45 am
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mikeledes mikeledes is offline
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Default Is the use of the chasuble-alb still allowed?

It's my understanding that the use of the chasuble-alb is no longer allowed? If so, can you please provide an official church document that prohibits it? If not, than can you provide an offical document that allows it? Thanks and God Bless!

In Christ,
Michael
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  #11  
Old Oct 7, '10, 8:58 am
malphono malphono is offline
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Default Re: Is the use of the chasuble-alb still allowed?

The term "chasuble-alb" seems to ring a bell but I can't place exactly what it's supposed to be. It sounds like one of those heavy polyester "albs" with pleats that began to show up after 1967 and were worn with just a stole. Is that it? If not, is there a link to a pic?
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  #12  
Old Oct 7, '10, 9:03 am
benedictgal benedictgal is offline
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Default Re: Is the use of the chasuble-alb still allowed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeledes View Post
It's my understanding that the use of the chasuble-alb is no longer allowed? If so, can you please provide an official church document that prohibits it? If not, than can you provide an offical document that allows it? Thanks and God Bless!

In Christ,
Michael
Please read the citation from Redemptionis Sacramentum that I posted. The alb and the chasuble are two separate items.
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  #13  
Old Oct 7, '10, 9:09 am
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mikeledes mikeledes is offline
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Default Re: Is the use of the chasuble-alb still allowed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by benedictgal View Post
Please read the citation from Redemptionis Sacramentum that I posted. The alb and the chasuble are two separate items.
Thanks! But I've heard that at least in the past the Church has allowed use of the chasuble-alb for concelebrants and also for principal celebrants who celebrate Mass outside of a church or chapel. I would like a document that specifically states that the chasuble-alb is no longer allowed. I heard that the Church has prohibited it. God Bless!

In Christ,
Michael
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  #14  
Old Oct 7, '10, 9:15 am
benedictgal benedictgal is offline
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Default Re: Is the use of the chasuble-alb still allowed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeledes View Post
Thanks! But I've heard that at least in the past the Church has allowed use of the chasuble-alb for concelebrants and also for principal celebrants who celebrate Mass outside of a church or chapel. I would like a document that specifically states that the chasuble-alb is no longer allowed. I heard that the Church has prohibited it. God Bless!

In Christ,
Michael
RS came out in 2004, so it is the authoritative document used, in tandem with the GIRM (the third edition of which came out in English in 2002) to regulate the Mass. Thus, these documents are the ones that need to be followed.
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  #15  
Old Oct 7, '10, 10:50 am
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FrDavid96 FrDavid96 is offline
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Default Re: Is the use of the chasuble-alb still allowed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeledes View Post
Thanks! But I've heard that at least in the past the Church has allowed use of the chasuble-alb for concelebrants and also for principal celebrants who celebrate Mass outside of a church or chapel. I would like a document that specifically states that the chasuble-alb is no longer allowed. I heard that the Church has prohibited it. God Bless!

In Christ,
Michael
Michael,

The "proof" that it is not allowed is the simple fact that there is no mention of a "chasuble-alb" in the GIRM. The fact that the GIRM does describe what must be worn (alb, stole, and chasuble worn over the stole), leaves no room for interpretation to allow a combination chasuble-alb.
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