Cardinal George Pell

tuopaolo · #1 Apr 18, '05, 11:38 pm

I had good impressions of him but then I came across this transcript (dated April 6) and His Eminence's answer puzzles me. Perhaps it was just him not expressing himself clearly or maybe there was miscommunication since there seemed to have been some satellite troubles.

http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/inde...headlineid=948

GEORGE NEGUS: Cardinal, I don't mean this in a facetious or a sacrilegious way, but how does the Holy Spirit guide people like yourself in the conclave when there has to be politics involved, there has to be ideology involved, there has to be numbers involved, is the Holy Spirit a good political numbers man?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: No, sometimes He gets it right, sometimes He gets it wrong. But the Holy Spirit always works through free individuals. We try to listen to one another, we try to think, we try to discern what the church needs and to come to some consensus. The Holy Spirit only works through humans and through natural means generally. I've received no special inspiration.

GEORGE NEGUS: It's interesting though you said sometimes the Holy Spirit can get it wrong?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: Yes, well there have been bad popes in history.

HagiaSophia · #2 Apr 19, '05, 1:46 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuopaolo

I had good impressions of him but then I came across this transcript (dated April 6) and His Eminence's answer puzzles me. Perhaps it was just him not expressing himself clearly or maybe there was miscommunication since there seemed to have been some satellite troubles.

http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/inde...headlineid=948

GEORGE NEGUS: Cardinal, I don't mean this in a facetious or a sacrilegious way, but how does the Holy Spirit guide people like yourself in the conclave when there has to be politics involved, there has to be ideology involved, there has to be numbers involved, is the Holy Spirit a good political numbers man?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: No, sometimes He gets it right, sometimes He gets it wrong. But the Holy Spirit always works through free individuals. We try to listen to one another, we try to think, we try to discern what the church needs and to come to some consensus. The Holy Spirit only works through humans and through natural means generally. I've received no special inspiration.

GEORGE NEGUS: It's interesting though you said sometimes the Holy Spirit can get it wrong?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: Yes, well there have been bad popes in history.

I admire Pell tremendously, and I think this was a TIC response for those who do not understand what is meant by how the Holy Spirit works through the members of the conclave. I've seen some posts here and elsewhere that sound as if they expect that a dove comes into the room, sits in the chair and signs a ballot and then proclaims "Now hear this...Now hear this...."

tuopaolo · #3 Apr 19, '05, 1:55 am

Ahh! That makes sense. I didn't think of that. That would mean he has a good sense of humor which would be good in a pope

Thanks for clearing this up.

rjs1 · #4 Apr 19, '05, 4:22 am

Please be very careful about Cardinal Pell. About four weeks ago female altar servers began serving at the 6pm and 9am masses at Pell's cathedral. In order for this to happen male altar servers were actually discouraged from, or in some cases even banned from, serving at these masses. This introduction of female altar servers, unknown at St Mary's Cathedral until this time, was done with Archbishop Pell's full approval.

Pell was reprimanded by Rome some years ago for having an unorthodox view about the Eucharist. He has made comments which suggest that he does not believe that anyone is in hell.
For a number of years St Mary's Cathedral had a Dean who was a virtual agnostic. When Pell arrived this Dean stayed for a couple more years, was given a "plum" parish then replaced by a new Dean who is also a theological liberal.
As I said, be careful about Cardinal Pell. He sometimes appears to be very orthodox but at other times he has views which are worrying.

tuopaolo · #5 Apr 19, '05, 4:33 am

Would you happen to have some more information, perhaps quotations, about his comments regarding hell?

I'd also like to know more about his view on the Eucharist and the nature of the reprimand from Rome.

**fix** · #6 Apr 19, '05, 6:20 am

Pell, one of my favorites.

**Tantum ergo** · #7 Apr 19, '05, 6:23 am

Source for the allegations against the Cardinal, please.

"Character assassination" is against the 8th commandment.

rjs1 · #8 Apr 19, '05, 4:04 pm

It is not character assassination. The facts about the altar girls and the liberal Deans is public knowledge among orthodox Sydney Catholics, particulalrly those who attend the Cathedral. The information about the unorthodox views on the Eucharist can be found in any detailed biography of Cardinal Pell. Not only did it happen but even worse, a candidate for the priesthood who tried to oppose Pell on this matter was then prevented by Pell from being ordained and had to finally go to Rome where he was ordained. I am relucatnt to give his name I have not asked his permission.

rjs1 · #9 Apr 20, '05, 2:41 am

It must seem as though I am being very critical of Cardinal Pell and I can understand why some, who have the impression that he is strictly orthodox, would be upset.

I know that many Catholics believe that Cardinal Pell is an alternative to the liberal churchmen found in too many dioceses. He has done some good things and has publicly supported the Church's stand re homosexuality and women priests.

However, I believe he is some ways divided between orthodoxy and liberalism. He therefore, as all bishops do, needs our prayers.