Are you sure you want to be an organ donor?

[JimG]

Before you decide, you might first want to read an article in the April 15, 2005 issue of Our Sunday Visitor, by Mercedes Arzu Wilson.

Even though you may be declared brain-dead, your body must in fact be kept alive—living and breathing—while your vital organs are being harvested. In the U.S., you will probably not be given an anesthetic before they cut into you. You will instead be given a paralyzing agent, to prevent limb movement while your vital organs are being cut out. How confident are you that you will not feel anything during this procedure?

From the article:

“Dr. Conrado Estol, a neurologist from Argentina, spoke strongly in favor of harvesting human organs. He presented a dramatic video of a man diagnosed as ‘brain dead’ who attempted to sit up and cross his arms (an act Estol called a ‘Lazarus reflex.’)”

In some European countries, you will be given an anesthetic, while your organs are being removed. This is a more comforting thought than simply being paralyzed while being cut into, but are “dead” people commonly given anesthesia?

Also keep in mind that when a doctor says that whatever condition you may have is considered “irreversible,” that is a prognosis—not a fact.

After your vital organs have been harvested, your vital functions as shown on the monitors really will go flat-line. Now we know you are dead. Cause of death: removal of vital organs.

[Trelow]

I'm a technician at an eye bank, so I get to read many medicial charts of organ donation cases. I have yet to see one where the donor was not given an anesthetic. There is no other possible way to recover live organs except by keeping the body functioning biologicially.

Still it is not a decision to take lightly.

[WhiteDove]

I totally distrust the whole organ harvesting biz. As time goes by, the standards for declaring brain death have been relaxed. I've told my kids, forget it, I refuse to participate. Sorry if that upsets someone, but it's my personal choice.

[Lorarose]

My daughter's heart was harvested.
Her brain waves were flat, she had no reflexes, and her organs were beginning to shut down.
She was declared officially "dead" when 3 doctors concurred with their diagnosis of brain death and it was declared the moment they signed the certificate.
The cause of her death was not listed as removal of vital organs.

We had the advise of priests and a very devout catholic cardiologist - as well as a team of other excellent doctors.

The cardiologist (who is a catholic) regularly harvests hearts for transplants and he says he has never seen anything to make him think these patients are not dead.
Brain death is a non-subjective diagnosis.
Certain criteria have to be met - and 2 or 3 doctors must agree.

[JimG]

Lorarose--the fact that your daughter's organs were beginning to shut down would certainly indicate that she was dying, and I wouldn't second-guess your decision at all.

The only thing that worries me, is that, as WhiteDove says, perhaps the standards are being relaxed, and there seems to be an increased pressure for organ donation. I just don't want to be euthanized in order to provide organs.

[WhiteDove]

Here are some interesting links that bring up some of the alarming trends related to this organ business, which in my opinion has incredible potential for abuse, expecially because of the gulf bettween the rich and the poor in this world. This is not to critisise LoraRose or anyone else who has participated in organ donation or been the recipient. I imagine the loss of a daughter was heart wretching and donation of her organs was a positive thing to give to another family. It's just to bring up some of the dangerous and alarming things, generally, surrounding organ donation

Here are four different webpages to check out regarding this issue


Dead Baby Parts Business Booming
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Despite considerable pressure from the medical community to define persistent vegetative state as a type of brain death (a definition that would both expand the pool of organ donors and eliminate the high medical costs associated with maintaining people in this condition), the courts have repeatedly refused to support persistent vegetative state as a legal definition of death. People whose bodies continue to function in an integrated manner are legally and medically alive, despite their limited (or absent) mental function. Regardless of how one may view the desirability of maintaining patients in a persistent vegetative state (this being an entirely distinct moral and legal question), there is unanimous agreement that such patients are not yet corpses. Even those who advocate the withdrawal of food and water from patients in persistent vegetative state couch their position in terms of the "right to die," fully acknowledging that such patients are indeed "alive." While the issues surrounding persistent vegetative state are both myriad and complex, the import of this condition for understanding the relationship between mental function and death is clear: the loss of integrated bodily function, not the loss of higher mental ability, is the defining legal characteristic of death.
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Nagging Doubts About Brain Death --This article appears in the February 1995 edition of the Catholic Medical Quarterly
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ORPHANAGE OR ORGAN REPOSITORY? The world that has been appalled for years by China's systemic and well organized selling of human organs that are culled from millions of political prisoners must now brace for even more shocking practices in that communist country.

[mommy]

I have a question, if you are found to be brain dead, with 2-3 dr's agreeing. Would you even be able to feel the pain? Would your brain recognize the pain? I have no idea. Just curious.

[WhiteDove]

Not sure about that Mommy, but if you read the link to one of my sites I posted, you'll see that the medical community is putting pressure to have persistant vegetative state be included as within the acceptable criteria for organ donation in order to increase the pool of donors. This is very dangerous, especially in light of the recent fiasco in Florida.

Also, note that there is already a traffic in organs from the poorer nations to the wealthy ones. Does this raise any red flags for anyone? It does me!

[mommy]

ACK... someone could have been hacking into Terri then - which is NOT where the organ donation movement should be.

[Lorarose]

Jim G.

How have the standards been "relaxed"?

It really appeared to us there was a checklist they had to verify, and she either fulfilled the requirements - or she didn't.

For example - for a few days she had lost all of her reflexes except for pupil dilation and regulation of urine output.
On the day those were also lost - they went ahead with the EEG to confirm flat brain waves.
The final test was the "gasp test" - they turn off the ventilator for a few minutes to see if the patient attempts to breathe.

Once all these tests were performed - 3 doctors signed off on the diagnosis.

So...for us- it became a decision whether or not to remove life support - or to go ahead with the organ donation process.

I don't believe anyone should ever feel pressure from any doctors during a terrible time like this.
I don't believe pvs should be considered "death" or even "brain death"

And like I said before - there are many good doctors out there who would never participate in the operations if they thought there was a chance they were hurting someone.

I understand people's concerns about the abortionists selling body parts - or turning to euthenasia as a way to get more organs...
at the same time I don't think that calls for elimination of organ donation entirely.

My husband knows that if I ever suffer brain death - he may donate my organs.
If there is any doubt about my condition, he may not.

[dsproule]

Originally Posted by Lorarose

My daughter's heart was harvested.
Her brain waves were flat, she had no reflexes, and her organs were beginning to shut down.
She was declared officially "dead" when 3 doctors concurred with their diagnosis of brain death and it was declared the moment they signed the certificate.
The cause of her death was not listed as removal of vital organs.

We had the advise of priests and a very devout catholic cardiologist - as well as a team of other excellent doctors.

The cardiologist (who is a catholic) regularly harvests hearts for transplants and he says he has never seen anything to make him think these patients are not dead.
Brain death is a non-subjective diagnosis.
Certain criteria have to be met - and 2 or 3 doctors must agree.

I am so sorry. I will pray for you and your daughter.

[Pumpkin]

I have two sides to this topic, a defense of organ donation and a warning regarding advocacy and consent:

As an ICU nurse, I had the honor to care for many people at the end of life. I went with one of my patients for organ harvesting on the request of the family, since I had developed a relationship with them; they wanted me to be there for their mother during the donation process. The organ harvesting team was very respectful and maintained the utmost dignity of my patient. The team prayed over her in thanks and for her soul, for her family and the people she was helping. She continued to receive all of the medications that were sedating and relieving her pain while she was still living, after she had passed away through out the surgery. At least in this state they do everything necessary to maintain dignity and comfort for the donor and their family. In fact, people who have agreed to organ donation are given more tests to determine that they are truly dead than are those who haven't agreed to organ donation. (Sad but true)

If for reason it came to pass that it was somehow legally permissible to harvest organs from an individual in a persistent vegetative state then just like anything medically related issue including end of life issues and organ donation you need to be completely informed and to make your wishes known in a legal format to the state and your family, prior to becoming ill so that does not ever happen to you. We all need to make sure our wishes a very explicitly known and we act as our own advocate in a time when we are capable of doing so, so that when we are not capable our wishes are still lived out. It is sad but true.

Sadly, you would be amazed, if you have never taken a course in medical ethics, what this country has done throughout it's history in the name of research and medicine. Unfortunately I believe the things we have seen come to pass recently are a revisiting to a time before internal review boards and the Nuremburg Codes. Just do a Google search on these topics to see how depraved people have been: Tuskegee Syphilis study, The Willobrook research, Stanley Milgram experiments, Stanford Prison research. These are all horrors that have occurred in the name of medicine in modern day US within this generation. Therefore, one must always be aware of everything they consent to. Because although the medical community learned from these atrocities there is a slippery slope that we live in these days and one must always be fully informed because I see us revisiting the past with the social relativism of late.
As an aside, I read that Pope Benedict XVI has elected, if possible, to be an organ donor. Ultimately this is a very personal decision that should be made while fully informed.

[Lorarose]

I am so sorry. I will pray for you and your daughter.

Thank you

Her heart is still alive, and I believe my baby looks after the little girl who received her heart.

[Pumpkin]

Lorarose your daughter and your family were a part of a life giving outpouring of love. I pray that you have peace knowing the good that came of your Daughter's passing and the calm of her eternal bliss with God. My prayers go out to you.

P

[Lorarose]

Thank you pumpkin!

And it's good to know there are nurses out there like you to stand by grief stricken families in their greatest time of need.

It cannot be an easy job.