Pope's coat of arms

[Tantalus]

Hello,

If anyone knows how soon Benedict's coat of arms will be designed, please reply.

[Erich]

Perhaps he'll keep the same shield from his coat of arms as a cardinal (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI, about a third of the way down), but exchange the red hat and tassels for the tiara and keys.

I'm just guessing, of course. Our local diocese was, a few months ago, elevated to an archdiocese, and our local bishop's coat of arms changed only slightly in that there is now another row of tassels (signifying that he's now an archbishop). Instead of 6 tassels in three rows on either side of the shield, there are now 10 tassels in four rows. Judging from Benedict XVI's coat of arms as a cardinal, one gets 15 tassels in 5 rows upon being promoted to cardinal.

[chicago]

Originally Posted by Erich

Judging from Benedict XVI's coat of arms as a cardinal, one gets 15 tassels in 5 rows upon being promoted to cardinal.

And, of course, the are red rather than the green of an archbishop.

[dcmac]

If His Holiness Benedict XVI keeps the charges the same in his papal coat of arms he will likely loose the 1st and 4th quarter of his arms while used as a cardinal and archbishop of Munich. They are – Or, a Black-a-Moor's head erased proper, collared and crowned gules (Gold, an African Moor’s head erased natural, collared and crowned red).

In German Ecclesiastical tradition a (arch)bishop quarters his (arch)diocesan coat of arms with his personal/familial ones. Whereas in most other nations the (arch)diocesan arms are "impaled" (one to the left and one to the right on a shield that is divided in two) with those of his personal/familial one.

As he will no longer be the archbishop of Munich he will likely not quarter them, however he may use them in the chief (the top third) of the shield as his Italian predecessors (Jon Paul I, John XXIII, Pius XI, Benedict XV, etc.) did, or as an escutcheon (smaller shield) in the middle of the arms.

Do not be surprised, however if he changes them all together.

----

Heraldic honors of the Catholic hierarchy

• Cardinal – red galero (hat) and thirty fiocchi (tassels) with fifteen on either side.
• Patriarch – green galero (hat) and thirty green fiocchi (tassels) with fifteen on either side and gold thread intertwined with the green in the fiocchi and cords as a matter of courtesy since ca. 1850.
• Archbishop – green galero (hat) and twenty fiocchi (tassels) with ten on either side.
• Bishop – green galero (hat) and twelve fiocchi (tassels) with six on either side.
• Abbot (and provosts) – black galero (hat) and twelve fiocchi (tassels) with six on either side and a veiled crosier instead of an Episcopal cross.
• Abbot Nullius (prelate nullius) – the same as that of a bishop, but with an abbots veiled crosier instead of an Episcopal cross.
• Prelate di Fiochetto (Papal Court – now abolished, however of historical importance) – purple galero (hat) and twenty red fiocchi (tassels) with ten on either side and cording.
• Protonotory Apostolic (de numero and supranumerary – now the highest class within the honorary prelature) – purple galero (hat) and red fiocchi (tassels) with six on either side and cording.
• Prelates of Honor of His Holiness – purple galero (hat) and twelve fiocchi (tassels) with six on either side.
• Chaplains of His Holiness – black galero (hat) and twelve purple fiocchi (tassels) with six on either side.
• Canon – black galero (hat) and six fiocchi (tassels) with three on either side.
• Dean, Vicar Forane, Vicar Episcopal – black galero (hat) and four fiocchi (tassels) with two on either side.
• Priest – black galero (hat) and two fiocchi (tassels) with one on either side.
• Permanent Deacon – nothing officially, however there is a customary practice of using a black galero (hat) without any fiocchi or cording.

(Heraldry is a hobby of mine and heraldic display is one of my part time jobs as well)

[Bruised Reed]

From Inside the Vatican via Relapsed Catholic

"The second symbol, a bear with a pack on his back, is connected with a legend about Munich's first bishop, St. Korbinian. Traveling to Rome, Korbinian encountered a bear which attacked the horse which was carrying the saint's luggage. As punishment Korbinian made the bear carry his pack to Rome before releasing him. The bear reminds Ratzinger of Augustine' meditation on Psalm 72 (73). By a coincidence, which the new Pope will not have failed to notice, this psalm was in the Breviary Office of Readings on the day the Conclave began."

[olegraymere]

Just so long as there are no olives!

[HagiaSophia]

Originally Posted by Erich

Perhaps he'll keep the same shield from his coat of arms as a cardinal .

That would be very unusual; when a bishop becomes an archbishop, he does not in heraldry change his coat of arms other than to accomodate the new title; when a man becomes pope however, they usually keep their personal coat of arms as part of their old affiliation but have a papal coat of arms designed for their term of office.

[dcmac]

"That would be very unusual; when a bishop becomes an archbishop, he does not in heraldry change his coat of arms other than to accommodate the new title; when a man becomes pope however, they usually keep their personal coat of arms as part of their old affiliation but have a papal coat of arms designed for their term of office."

Not exactly.

Popes John Paul I, Paul VI, John XXIII, and Pius XI all used their family’s coat of arms. Albeit in the case of John XXIII and John Paul I (as well as Pius X, although his were not familial in origin) they did modify it by adding in a chief (top third of the shield) the lion of St. Mark, as in the arms of that diocese, as they both were patriarchs of Milan. While Pius XI and Benedict XV, as well as many in the centuries preceding theirs, placed their region of origin in the chief (top third of the shield), as it was the custom in Italy at the time to show ones regional allegiance/origin in the chief of ones shield; this is especially clear in the case of the Medicci popes. In the past century, plus or minus, it has only been John Paul II, Pius XII, and Benedict XV who did not make use of familial arms as their papal arms.

So, while it is possible for a pontiff to create new arms and use them it is by no means universal… it isn’t even the norm. The norm was to use ones familial arms. Of course that was when the Italians dominated the papacy. As HH John Paul II did not come from an armigerous family he had new ones created. In this case, however, I find it queer that many commentators on the subject tend to claim that he "violated" heraldic law by placing a letter in the shield. This would be true if JPII were anyone other than a Pole or Italian. For in Poland it has long been a custom to have either a letter or anagram placed in the arms either alone or in conjunction with some other charge. It is the same in the case of Rome itself with its famous, "SPQR" coat of arms, which of course dates back to ancient Roman times. In Poland, however only noble families were permitted to bear arms and since JPII did not come from such a family it is no wonder he had to create a coat of arms for himself.

Yet, if this, or any future pope, has familial arms he is entitled to use them as his arms while holding the papacy.

An excellent resource on this matter is the wonderful work by James-Charles Noonan, Jr. (The Church Visible; The ceremonial life and protocol of the Roman Catholic Church). Also one can read Mons. Bruno Heim on the matter of Roman Catholic Ecclesiastical heraldry. One can also refer to the works by Mr. Fox-Davies of Britain and the current Lord Lyon King of Arms of Scotland on the matter, though, as a British Protestants their knowledge of the specifics of Catholic Ecclesiastical heraldry is less than the previous two. There are more resources and if you’d like them let me know in a pm and I will get back to you.

[chicago]

dcmac,

Could you please speak a bit more about the "familial coat of arms"? Coming from America as many of us here do, it may seem an unusual concept, afterall.

[dcmac]

Sure Chicago.

Simply put a familial coat of arms are arms that are associated with a particular family. In most European countries there was, and is, a strict form of heraldic display of notable families. These developed out of military necessity during the first part of the last millennium where designs were often very simple and easy to detect on the battlefield.

Later the non-military families that gained some importance, be it through the nobility, commerce, etc. began to adopt or have arms matriculated for them by their nation’s power. In most cases this was an office of the crown, though the small and relatively short-lived republics had much heraldic usage as well, as does modern day republics in Europe; some are stricter with the adherence to heraldic laws than others. During the Renaissance and Boroque periods the arms of many Europeans became more and more difficult and complex.

In Emerald Isles the use can be broken down into these categories: Norman (simple) and Anglo (complex). In Ireland, and to a lesser extent in Scotland, there is also a Gaelic element to heraldry. In truth each country has heraldic traditions that vary a little bit, or a lot, from the norm, but there is a norm.

So, the history of arms is: one, simple military identification; two, familial (as well as personal) identification and status; and three corporate identification. In Europe there are many, many families who have ancient right to the use of arms. These families tended to be from either/and/or the military, nobility, or merchant classes. Many of the Italian popes sprang from these merchant and noble families. Today that is not the case as many families are granted arms who are not of a military, noble, or merchant class.

So, a familial coat of arms is one that comes from that of ones family. In the case of the Italian popes this was usually rich and ancient, however there were popes who were not of these families… there were simply fewer of them.

In America there are a great many families who have a right to arms and in fact every family is entitled to acquire them. Most American families get their grants from foreign states: U.K. (England, Wales, Cornwall, and Northern Ireland – College of Arms, Scotland – Lord Lyon’s office), Ireland (Chief Herald of the Genealogical Office), Spain (Cronistas de Arms), Canada (Chief Herald of Canada), Italy, France, Russia, Portugal, Germany, South Africa, etc. Or they can get them from the American College of Heraldry, which is a non-profit organization of professional artists who have incorporated into a non-profit for the purpose of granting Americans coats of arms that abide by the basic laws of heraldry including not stealing another family’s coat of arms simply because it is identical, or similar, to your last name.

I hope that helps.

[chicago]

What would the purpose and signifigance be in our day for a family having a coat of arms?

[Lisa4Catholics]

Originally Posted by olegraymere

Just so long as there are no olives!

If their are olives We are going to have to start another thread!

[tuopaolo]

I think it's a distinct possibility that an olive tree might figure into his new coat of arms.

[J_Chrysostomos]

Here are what I have seen:

From http://www.araldicavaticana.com/ we have a set of arms with a tiara and one with a miter instead:





I saw the one with the miter first, so maybe the tiara arms are the finalized ones.

[tuopaolo]

I read on a talk page on wikipedia that the pope actually wanted to be coronated but was told that it would take too long to draft a new coronation ceremony within the few days before the installation.